"Sexist and Racist"....

[Gob]

She's not my lover...

[BoSoxGal]

"a quick google will show" = "assholes on the interwebs say shit"

what some douchenozzle with a dial-up vomits from his keyboard

FYI, I might be plagiarizing these pithy phrases in future posts here and elsewhere. Because they rock!

[wesw]

neither was the whopper, I had assumed it was common knowledge and had no I dea of all the info I discovered.
there is another plausible explanation I had not considered. I d learned some about her former coach, who was a trans sexual. there was info in some legal data bases, which included info on chromosomal arrangements that cause people to have the attributes of males and females at the same time. so perhaps that would explain some things or perhaps she was undergoing some transition of her own. both are plausible to a degree.

and I don t think rubatos observations of physiques are correct, par for the course.

if anyone takes an hour to satisfy their curiosity, as I did, there is much to learn about PEDs in tennis. especially in the women s game. I learn everyday.

martina wasn t always the lovable person you see today, she was a machine, produced in the eastern bloc which wanted to dominate the west in every way. this is my still my view. I don t condemn her, she was a product of the cold war. whether she was enhanced by chemicals or by nature, or both, I m not certain, but I lean toward believing steroids played a large role in her success.

I see there is another page of posts on this thread, I m afraid to look.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Martina was 18 when she defected, having been brought up in a country where eating a healthy diet was a problem when she was younger. It's entirely possible that her tennis federation fed 'er rations of PED without her knowledge - fairly common in commie countries if they fancied an athlete's chances in the world. However, she worked hard and never was "ripped" - she was tall and rangy and developed musculature over a (comparatively) slight frame. All tennis players can be still-photographed while in motion to show muscle "flow" which makes them appear larger. Get over it wes. She was great and worked for it and played amongst others who would have ratted her out first chance they got if they thought she was cheating. Let me know when you come up with any PED accusations from a reliable source instead of the tin-hat tennis brigade of interweb gossips.

PS her sexual preferences have nothing to do with it - she was a gift to tennis and still is I suppose. But she was hated for beating America's late-night fantasy - for being a commie - and for being a lesbian. No wonder some people make stuff up. Well, that's my opinion anyway.

Navratilova: Agassi Should Have Fessed Up
By/ CBSNews/CBS/November 9, 2009, 8:23 AM

Andre Agassi's revelation in his new autobiography that he used crystal meth and lied about it has been met with lots of criticism.

Fellow tennis legend Martina Navratilova compared Agassi to Roger Clemens, the former major league pitching great widely believed to have used steroids who vehemently denies it.

On the CBS News broadcast "60 Minutes" Sunday night, a visibly shaken Agassi addressed Navratilova's comment, telling "CBS Evening News" anchor Katie Couric, "It's what you don't wanna hear. But when somebody takes a performance inhibitor, a recreational drug…"

"Not at first as a performance enhancing drug?" Couric asked.

"The one thing that I would hope is not that there aren't rules that need to be followed, but along with that would come some compassion, that maybe this person doesn't need condemnation. Maybe this person could stand a little help. And I had a problem. And there might be many other athletes out there that test positive for recreational drugs that have a problem. So I would -- I would ask for some compassion."

Andre Agassi's Extraordinary Journey

On "The Early Show" Monday, Navratilova said her beef with Agassi's crystal meth use was that he'd lied about it and covered it up, until word of the content of "Open: An Autobiography" (which officially hits bookshelves Monday) came out.

"I am a compassionate person," she told co-anchor Maggie Rodriguez, "as I proved this morning when I rescued a tree-frog from my sink and released it into the wild.

" ... I was comparing Andre to Roger Clemens only because they both lied about having taken the drugs. I was never suggesting that Andre was taking performance-enhancing drugs, and that he was trying to cheat the game that way. I was upset that he lied about the fact that he took the drugs.

"Whether he takes crystal meth or not, could I care less about that.

"And, again, I don't think it should be against the rules. But it is. And when he got caught, I thought he should have owned up to it, just done his three months (suspension) and be done with it, and we would not be talking about it anymore.

"So, I was not comparing Andre to Roger in that way at all, only that they both lied about it. And that was a misunderstanding because, to me, cheaters should be banned from the game, and should never be allowed to play again and that's why, I think, we were all so disappointed with Roger Clemens.

"With Andre, what he had done, I did not know that he was taking it for depression, that was not part of the information at the time. And I would never condemn him for doing that. It was the fact that he lied about it. He didn't own up to it and to me, he cheated the game in that respect."

Rodriguez also asked Navratilova about Agassi's revelation that he once purposely lost a match against Michael Chang.

"I never did (that -- threw a match). I could never do that. There have been other greats in the game that have tanked matches. I'm not gonna name anybody, but it has happened.

"Obviously, he was really down, you know. And, you're very exposed out there when you're on the court, and when you're going through stuff some your personal life, some shall people reacted better on the court and they sort of get away from it, and for some people, it's even worse.

"So, he tanked a match. Who lost in that? It's the fans who watched the match and of course, Andre Agassi. And Michael Chang probably said, 'Hey, you know, I want your best effort out there.' But sometimes, you just can't help it, and you self-destruct, one way or the other. Tanking is not something new, and Andre is a great champion, and I wish him all the best, absolutely."

[oldr_n_wsr]

Andre Agassi's revelation in his new autobiography that he used crystal meth and lied about it has been met with lots of criticism.

Addicts lie. My wife would ask me if I was drinking and I would say no. Even after a brethalyzer read .10 I would say "I wasn't drinking, the thing is broken".

[MajGenl.Meade]

"Obviously, he was really down, you know. And, you're very exposed out there when you're on the court, and when you're going through stuff some your personal life, some shall people reacted better on the court and they sort of get away from it, and for some people, it's even worse.

Is there a translator in the house?

[oldr_n_wsr]

Agassi had some personal issues (addiction and/or depression) and it carried over to his tennis game, causing some to speculate that he took dive in a match.
Others who have personal issues (addiction or not) can cover them up better and not have it affect their game, at least to the point of being accused of thanking the match.

[Guinevere]

Martina was 18 when she defected, having been brought up in a country where eating a healthy diet was a problem when she was younger. It's entirely possible that her tennis federation fed 'er rations of PED without her knowledge - fairly common in commie countries if they fancied an athlete's chances in the world. However, she worked hard and never was "ripped" - she was tall and rangy and developed musculature over a (comparatively) slight frame. All tennis players can be still-photographed while in motion to show muscle "flow" which makes them appear larger. Get over it wes. She was great and worked for it and played amongst others who would have ratted her out first chance they got if they thought she was cheating. Let me know when you come up with any PED accusations from a reliable source instead of the tin-hat tennis brigade of interweb gossips.

PS her sexual preferences have nothing to do with it - she was a gift to tennis and still is I suppose. But she was hated for beating America's late-night fantasy - for being a commie - and for being a lesbian. No wonder some people make stuff up. Well, that's my opinion anyway.

AMEN MGM

[wesw]

i don t care what her sex or sexual preference is or was. what i care about is PED use. they ruined baseball in my opinion. my son was involved in 4 sports. he had to compete against other young men, some of whom used PEDs. human growth hormone was big around here. little bobby or billy was a great athlete, just too small for that scholarship and trip to the big leagues , you know? daddy was often far to happy to get some stuff so that little johnny would get that edge. my son told me about a couple kids who were using and i took a look at them. one kid in particular i remember, had gotten huge, with the big brow ridge and all. sickening to me. bad for the kid and everyone he competed with and against. are you aware that some high schools now test for these things?

i m a fan of the asterisk. i believe she derserves one. you can get on your high horse if you want, or bury your head in the sand, i don t care. i believe, from my own observations, that she juiced. perhaps willingly, perhaps not.

and back to my original point, i still don t see the racism of the remark in question, and from my reading last night, i m more convinced that PEDs have become pervasive in tennis, and that it began with martina. nice people, black people, and gay people aren t above criticism. get over it.