Nikki Haley steps up and does the right thing.
Re: Nikki Haley steps up and does the right thing.
WTF does he know? He let Lee escape at Gettysburg....do not argue about the Civil War with friggin' Major General Meade
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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Nikki Haley steps up and does the right thing.
He was moved by Lee's plea to be allowed to go home and put the flags away. Took almost another two years to get that done though.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
Re: Nikki Haley steps up and does the right thing.
Meade was born on foreign soil and should never have been trusted. This one AND that one. 
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oldr_n_wsr
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Re: Nikki Haley steps up and does the right thing.
IMHO:
The rebel flag had next to nothing to do with the killing of those nine Godly, upstanding people.
Fixating on the flag diverts attention from the real problem.
More guns laws will not prevent the next wacko from killing a bunch of innocent people.
Fixating on guns and gun laws diverts attention from the real problem.
There will always be racists/bigots among us.
the real problem
There are fewer racists/bigots among us now than in the past.
Can we get it to zero?
Better to let the racists/bigots spew their hatred out in the open.
Better to know who/where they are.
The rebel flag had next to nothing to do with the killing of those nine Godly, upstanding people.
Fixating on the flag diverts attention from the real problem.
More guns laws will not prevent the next wacko from killing a bunch of innocent people.
Fixating on guns and gun laws diverts attention from the real problem.
There will always be racists/bigots among us.
the real problem
There are fewer racists/bigots among us now than in the past.
Can we get it to zero?
Better to let the racists/bigots spew their hatred out in the open.
Better to know who/where they are.
Re: Nikki Haley steps up and does the right thing.
It is and it isn't. It was a racially motivated attack by the attackers own admission and he used that flag as a symbol of those beliefs. Furthermore the state Capitol kept that flag flying high while all others were at half mast. That just sends a dhitload of mixed messages at best apparent govt sponsored racism at worst. Not to mention the shitload of poor optics.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Nikki Haley steps up and does the right thing.
Agreeing it must come down CP... still, there was nobody that could do it without breaking the law. It requires a 2/3 vote of both houses of the legislature (they are part way through that now) to take the flag down - it cannot be [and should not be] flown at half staff. And in fact it first takes a 2/3 vote to even put it on the agenda! Also too in addition and furthermore, it is not on a pulley but is padlocked to the tippy top of the pole.
However, the bill that created this horror in 2000 allows for the flag to be removed for purposes of replacing it without a vote. Perhaps a smart (but very about to be unemployed) factotum could have cherry-picked up to the top and "taken it down to be replaced. Whoops!". However that would probably have alienated congress critters needed to vote it gone permanently.
I was hoping the police and local demonstrators would get together and go take the flag pole itself down. Would have been a nice gesture.
However, the bill that created this horror in 2000 allows for the flag to be removed for purposes of replacing it without a vote. Perhaps a smart (but very about to be unemployed) factotum could have cherry-picked up to the top and "taken it down to be replaced. Whoops!". However that would probably have alienated congress critters needed to vote it gone permanently.
I was hoping the police and local demonstrators would get together and go take the flag pole itself down. Would have been a nice gesture.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
Re: Nikki Haley steps up and does the right thing.
I see the confederate flag issue in the same way I view sexual harassment on the job. It's not always the idea that you intended to convey to someone, it's the way it is perceived by that person.
A man might say to a coworker, "You lookin' hot, baby," and mean it as a compliment but the person on the receiving end is insulted.
The typical response from the offender is, "It's not my fault she didn't understand what I meant."
I've heard similar responses to people who are upset at someone for flying a confederate flag. "That's not what it means to me!" "Some of my black friends aren't offended by it." ...
That's why it's wrong to fly the confederate flag over a government building. Fly it anywhere else you please.
A man might say to a coworker, "You lookin' hot, baby," and mean it as a compliment but the person on the receiving end is insulted.
The typical response from the offender is, "It's not my fault she didn't understand what I meant."
I've heard similar responses to people who are upset at someone for flying a confederate flag. "That's not what it means to me!" "Some of my black friends aren't offended by it." ...
That's why it's wrong to fly the confederate flag over a government building. Fly it anywhere else you please.
Re: Nikki Haley steps up and does the right thing.
CP, as I understand it this "flag" is more like a piece of art work than an actual "flag"; it's bolted in place adjacent to a confederate war memorial; it's not raised and lowered like a normal flag, or the state and US flags that fly over the state capitol. (It's not flying over any government building in South Carolina)Furthermore the state Capitol kept that flag flying high while all others were at half mast.
As I suspected would be the case, those who have been clamoring to remove this flag are far from satisfied with that. There is now an Anti-Confederacy Inquisition afoot, trying to harass and browbeat states and localities all over the country into "De-Confederacizing"; calling for every memorial to the war dead and statue to be taken down, every street and school to be renamed...
Afterall, why should we be honoring a bunch of traitors who are the equivalent of Nazis?
(BTW, in case there's anyone here who would like to say "Well, that's a splendid idea; we should definitely tear down all the memorials and statues and stop honoring those traitorous Nazis with street and school names", allow me to say "fuck you", "eat me completely" and "kiss my rebel dick" to you in advance, in case I forget to do so later...this is for you:
)
Last edited by Lord Jim on Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Nikki Haley steps up and does the right thing.
If the government of South Carolina is forced to remove the confederate flag from (or around) the State Capitol, is that Capitol Punishment?
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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Nikki Haley steps up and does the right thing.
Joe - It might be cruel and unusy'all
LJ - I doubt anyone here thinks that CW monuments should be torn down. Certainly not I. I would oppose such silliness as well as I'm against any new ones being established - site markers are good enough for history and heritage. The old statues - those are history themselves; preservation is a must. Until they all crumble away as monuments tend to do over the millennia.
As to street names, that's not nearly so significant. I have no problem with streets being renamed as times change - it happens in all places in the USA and the wider world on a regular bass. There's nothing sacred about "Lee Highway" so one day perhaps it will be named after John Kasich (laughs)
In the UK I lived on Union Road in Dover. Seems like no problem - but actually it commemorated the workhouse that used to be located there and the council took a while (60 years!) and finally changed it to Coombe Valley Road.
In Bloemfontein and across SA, names of the Boer (and English) heroes are being replaced by the names of more contemporary heroes. In 2013 Maitland Street became Charolette Maxeke St., and that was just one of a dozen. And Bloemfontein Intnl Airport was renamed Bram Fischer Intnl Airport while we were there.
After all, it's every generation throws a hero up the pop charts
PS Apparently your quest for penile osculation isn't going so well. Perhaps you should choose an easier qualifying question?
LJ - I doubt anyone here thinks that CW monuments should be torn down. Certainly not I. I would oppose such silliness as well as I'm against any new ones being established - site markers are good enough for history and heritage. The old statues - those are history themselves; preservation is a must. Until they all crumble away as monuments tend to do over the millennia.
As to street names, that's not nearly so significant. I have no problem with streets being renamed as times change - it happens in all places in the USA and the wider world on a regular bass. There's nothing sacred about "Lee Highway" so one day perhaps it will be named after John Kasich (laughs)
In the UK I lived on Union Road in Dover. Seems like no problem - but actually it commemorated the workhouse that used to be located there and the council took a while (60 years!) and finally changed it to Coombe Valley Road.
In Bloemfontein and across SA, names of the Boer (and English) heroes are being replaced by the names of more contemporary heroes. In 2013 Maitland Street became Charolette Maxeke St., and that was just one of a dozen. And Bloemfontein Intnl Airport was renamed Bram Fischer Intnl Airport while we were there.
After all, it's every generation throws a hero up the pop charts
PS Apparently your quest for penile osculation isn't going so well. Perhaps you should choose an easier qualifying question?
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
Re: Nikki Haley steps up and does the right thing.
You couldn't make it up, murders on the streets and they're arguing about a flag!?!?!
Priorities people.
Priorities people.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: Nikki Haley steps up and does the right thing.
What that guy said...Gob wrote:You couldn't make it up, murders on the streets and they're arguing about a flag!?!?!
Priorities people.
Talk about a "false flag"....
Hmmm....LJ - I doubt anyone here thinks that CW monuments should be torn down.
I wouldn't be so sure...
Rube hasn't weighed in on this yet....he'll probably say he's in favor of it just to piss me off...
Re: Nikki Haley steps up and does the right thing.
Gob wrote:You couldn't make it up, murders on the streets and they're arguing about a flag!?!?!
Priorities people.
Well we can't very well say "Take the guns away from the racist morons" can we? The Repuglican Party has stopped that idea, cold.
yrs,
rubato
Re: Nikki Haley steps up and does the right thing.
Bugger, wrong thread. I'll put it in t'other one!!
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: Nikki Haley steps up and does the right thing.
You're so dumb it beggars belief.rubato wrote:
Well we can't very well say "Take the guns away from the racist morons" can we? The Repuglican Party has stopped that idea, cold.
yrs,
rubato
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: Nikki Haley steps up and does the right thing.
Yes, but one gets used to it after awhile...You're so dumb it beggars belief.
After 17 years of reading his posts, I'm way past "my God, how could anyone possibly say anything that stupid?"
He just does...it's just the way he rolls...
Re: Nikki Haley steps up and does the right thing.
And South Carolina, far from unanimously, in the end does the right thing.
Good for them. A critical first step to repairing their history.
yrs,
rubato
Good for them. A critical first step to repairing their history.
yrs,
rubato