Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

[Econoline]

I'm not sure why so many people seem to be unclear on this (especially since it's already happened in the past, not all that long ago). If the office of POTUS becomes vacant, the VP automatically becomes President; if the office of VP becomes vacant, the President appoints (and the Senate confirms) a new VP. Simple.

The rest of the line of succession (House Speaker, Senate President ProTem, Sec.of State, etc., etc., all the way down to Secretary of Homeland Security) applies *ONLY* when *ALL* the offices above any particular office in the line are *SIMULTANEOUSLY* vacant (or ineligible to succeed because of failure to meet the citizenship or age requirements).

And I don't think it would even be possible to impeach and try both the President and the Vice President simultaneously...

[Big RR]

Well, the speculation was that Trump is removed from office and Pence Succeed him; Pence is then impeached. True, he could appoint another VP, but as the Senate would have to approve they may not even consider anyone he proposes if he were facing an impeachment trial, allowing it to fall to the Speaker.

As for your suggestion of simultaneous impeachment of the president and VP, I think it extremely unlikely that this could occur, but again impeachment is solely within the purview of Congress and the courts are precluded from reviewing such decisions (by a USSC decision in the impeachment of a Judge Nixon as I recall), so they could likely do what they wanted.

[Guinevere]

Brick, by brIck, by brick, the evidence builds:

WASHINGTON — President Trump told Russian officials in the Oval Office this month that firing the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, had relieved “great pressure” on him, according to a document summarizing the meeting.

“I just fired the head of the F.B.I. He was crazy, a real nut job,” Mr. Trump said, according to the document, which was read to The New York Times by an American official. “I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.”

Mr. Trump added, “I’m not under investigation.”

The conversation, during a May 10 meeting — the day after he fired Mr. Comey — reinforces the notion that Mr. Trump dismissed him primarily because of the bureau’s investigation into possible collusion between his campaign and Russian operatives. Mr. Trump said as much in one televised interview, but the White House has offered changing justifications for the firing.[/quoteWASHINGTON — President Trump told Russian officials in the Oval Office this month that firing the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, had relieved “great pressure” on him, according to a document summarizing the meeting.

“I just fired the head of the F.B.I. He was crazy, a real nut job,” Mr. Trump said, according to the document, which was read to The New York Times by an American official. “I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.”

Mr. Trump added, “I’m not under investigation.”

The conversation, during a May 10 meeting — the day after he fired Mr. Comey — reinforces the notion that Mr. Trump dismissed him primarily because of the bureau’s investigation into possible collusion between his campaign and Russian operatives. Mr. Trump said as much in one televised interview, but the White House has offered changing justifications for the firing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/us/p ... share&_r=0

PS -- the Trumpanzee is a fucking idiot. Dick Nixon could have taught him a thing or two.....

[BoSoxGal]

Donald Trump calling James Comey a NUTJOB?!?!?!

[Lord Jim]

I'm not sure why so many people seem to be unclear on this (especially since it's already happened in the past, not all that long ago).

Me neither...

I don't understand why so many people don't recall that it's not just the Senate that votes to confirm the new VP...

Section 2. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fi ... nstitution

On October 10, 1973, Vice President Spiro Agnew resigned and then pleaded no contest to criminal charges of tax evasion and money laundering, part of a negotiated resolution to a scheme in which he accepted $29,500 in bribes while governor of Maryland. According to The New York Times, Nixon "sought advice from senior Congressional leaders about a replacement. The advice was unanimous. 'We gave Nixon no choice but Ford,' House Speaker Carl Albert recalled later".[30]

Ford was nominated to take Agnew's position on October 12, the first time the vice-presidential vacancy provision of the 25th Amendment had been implemented. The United States Senate voted 92 to 3 to confirm Ford on November 27. Only three Senators, all Democrats, voted against Ford's confirmation: Gaylord Nelson of Wisconsin, Thomas Eagleton of Missouri and William Hathaway of Maine. On December 6, 1973, the House confirmed Ford by a vote of 387 to 35. One hour after the confirmation vote in the House, Ford took the oath of office as Vice President of the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ford

If Trump were Impeached and Removed or if he Resigned, within a matter of days President Pence would nominate a new Vice President. (Under this scenario, he would already have had a lot of time to think about it.)

The nominee would undoubtedly be a Republican, but if the Dems at that point had taken back the House (or even come reasonably close) he certainly would not be in a position to have a Freedom Caucus type confirmed...

Despite his strong personal views on social issues, if you look at Pence's record as Governor of Indiana, for the most part it's a pretty pragmatic one. I would expect that he would probably name a Republican who has broad respect across party lines, who would not involve a serious confirmation fight...

A mainstream conservative Republican Governor who Pence knows quite well, John Kasich, immediately comes to mind as someone he might likely pick...

As for your suggestion of simultaneous impeachment of the president and VP, I think it extremely unlikely that this could occur

Pretty much an absolute impossibility...(and that really would look like a "coup")

Even if they had the majority in the House willing to vote to try to pull that, the Dems would still need 67 votes in the Senate (2/3rds) for Removal...

If they held every single seat they have up in the Senate in 2018, and won every single GOP seat that is up, (a couple of VERY big "ifs")... they'd only have a 56-44 majority...(since the Republicans are only defending 8 seats this cycle)

There's no way on God's good earth that they'd ever persuade 11 Republicans to vote to remove Pence simultaneously with Trump, (even if the GOP Senators were prepared to vote to remove Trump) with Nancy friggin' Pelosi next in line...

So, you can forget about "President Pelosi"...

(Something I'm certainly happy to do... )

[Lord Jim]

Donald Trump calling James Comey a NUTJOB?!?!?!

LOL

That really is too hilarious...

It reminds me of this:

Talking politics with his chief of staff, H. R. Haldeman, at the presidential retreat at Camp David, Md., in August 1972, Mr. Nixon turned the conversation to two Republican governors: Mr. Reagan, and Nelson A. Rockefeller of New York. Both had tried for the 1968 Republican presidential nomination, won by Mr. Nixon.

''Reagan is not one that wears well,'' the president said.

''I know,'' Mr. Haldeman agreed.

''On a personal basis,'' Mr. Nixon continued, ''Rockefeller is a pretty nice guy. Reagan on a personal basis is terrible. He just isn't pleasant to be around.''

''No, he isn't,'' Mr. Haldeman said.

''Maybe he's different with others,'' Mr. Nixon said.

''No,'' Mr. Haldeman said.

''No,'' the president replied, ''he's just an uncomfortable man to be around, strange.''

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/11/us/ta ... n-fan.html

(Richard Nixon calling Ronald Reagan a "strange" man who "isn't pleasant to be around"....check out the mirror, Dick... )

Though from Trump's perspective, I can kind of understand why he sees Comey this way...

A man with no principles, no integrity, and no scruples whatsoever, and who sees no value to those things, might very well see a person who possesses those qualities as a "nutjob"....

[ex-khobar Andy]

Ford took office on August 9 1974 at the minute of Nixon's resignation. Ford nominated Nelson Rockefeller on August 20. The 10-day delay was presumably because Rocky was working on a book at the time, and did not want to be interrupted. Anyway he was not confirmed until December. So in theory you guys had no VP for several months. So I assume that had Ford been no longer able to conduct the people's business, and Rocky were not yet in place, the Presidency would have gone to . . . Drum roll please . . . Wait for it . . . Carl Albert.

Edited to add my favourite Private Eye cover of all time. From 1968:

[Lord Jim]

Trump-Russia probe now includes possible cover-up, Congress is told

WASHINGTON

Investigators into Russian meddling in the U.S. presidential elections are now also probing whether White House officials have engaged in a cover-up, according to members of Congress who were briefed Friday by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein.

That avenue of investigation was added in recent weeks after assertions by former FBI Director James Comey that President Donald Trump had tried to dissuade him from pressing an investigation into the actions of Trump’s first national security adviser, retired Army Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, members of Congress said, though it was not clear whom that part of the probe might target.

Even as members of Congress were mulling over the expansion of the case into possible cover-up, and its reclassification from counterintelligence to criminal, the scandal appeared to grow. The Washington Post reported Friday afternoon that federal investigators were looking at a senior White House official as a “significant person of interest.” The article did not identify the official, though it noted that the person was “someone close to the president.”

A person of interest is someone law enforcement identifies as relevant to an investigation but who has not been charged or arrested.

Cover-ups have traditionally been a major part of investigations that have threatened previous administrations. Articles of impeachment levied against Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton included allegations of obstruction of justice, as they were suspected of trying to hide other wrongdoing.


“This is a thorough investigation of what happened in the 2016 election, and it can go anywhere,” said Rep. Mark Walker, R-N.C.

The possibility of a cover-up is the third branch of an investigation that began as a look at Russian meddling in the election and broadened into whether members of the Trump campaign had cooperated in that efforts, according to the briefing, members of Congress said.

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politic ... rylink=cpy

[Lord Jim]

Another brick in the wall:

Russia probe reaches current White House official, people familiar with the case say

The law enforcement investigation into possible coordination between Russia and the Trump campaign has identified a current White House official as a significant person of interest, showing that the probe is reaching into the highest levels of government, according to people familiar with the matter.

The senior White House adviser under scrutiny by investigators is someone close to the president, according to these people, who would not further identify the official.

The revelation comes as the investigation also appears to be entering a more overtly active phase, with investigators shifting from work that has remained largely hidden from the public to conducting interviews and using a grand jury to issue subpoenas. The intensity of the probe is expected to accelerate in the coming weeks, the people said.

The sources emphasized that investigators remain keenly interested in people who previously wielded influence in the Trump campaign and administration but are no longer part of it, including former national security adviser Michael Flynn and former campaign chairman Paul Manafort.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... f833120f12

Donald, if you really believed that firing Comey, relieved “great pressure” on you, and that you “faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.”...

[Big RR]

don't understand why so many people don't recall that it's not just the Senate that votes to confirm the new VP..

thanks for the memories Jim--it's coming back to me now.

The 10-day delay was presumably because Rocky was working on a book at the time, and did not want to be interrupted

Or he was working on Megan Marshack and didn't want to be interrupted?

[Econoline]

I don't understand why so many people don't recall that it's not just the Senate that votes to confirm the new VP...

thanks for the memories Jim--it's coming back to me now.

Oops, yeah, thanks for the correction. (Now that I'm thinking about it...IIRC, that was a big part of the reason why Ford was Nixon's pick to replace Agnew.)

[BoSoxGal]

Jared Kushner is the person of interest?

[RayThom]

Jared Kushner is the person of interest?

That's my guess. He's as close as anyone would care to get to Lord Dampnut.

The bus that everyone will soon be thrown under is getting bigger by the hour.

[Econoline]

WE'RE GONNA NEED A BIGGER BUS!

[Lord Jim]

The number of Senior advisers Trump has in the White House is pretty small to begin with, and since it's unlikely that Priebus, Conway or Spicer have an significant Russia ties, that pretty much only leaves Kushner or Bannon...

Or Ivanka...


Of those three, given just what is publicly known, Kushner is far and away the best candidate. Kushner agreed to testify before the Senate Intel Committee back in March, but I can't find any story about it actually having happened yet.:

Senate Committee to Question Jared Kushner Over Meetings With Russians

By JO BECKER, MATTHEW ROSENBERG and MAGGIE HABERMAN MARCH 27, 2017

Senate investigators plan to question Jared Kushner, President Trump’s son-in-law and a close adviser, as part of their broad inquiry into ties between Trump associates and Russian officials or others linked to the Kremlin, according to administration and congressional officials.

The White House Counsel’s Office was informed this month that the Senate Intelligence Committee, which is investigating Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election, wanted to question Mr. Kushner about meetings he arranged with the Russian ambassador, Sergey I. Kislyak, according to the government officials. The meetings, which took place during the transition, included a previously unreported sit-down with the head of Russia’s state-owned development bank.

Until now, the White House had acknowledged only an early December meeting between Mr. Kislyak and Mr. Kushner, which occurred at Trump Tower and was also attended by Michael T. Flynn, who would briefly serve as the national security adviser.

Later that month, though, Mr. Kislyak requested a second meeting, which Mr. Kushner asked a deputy to attend in his stead, officials said. At Mr. Kislyak’s request, Mr. Kushner later met with Sergey N. Gorkov, the chief of Vnesheconombank, which the United States placed on its sanctions list after President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia annexed Crimea and began meddling in Ukraine.

A White House spokeswoman, Hope Hicks, confirmed those meetings, saying in an interview that nothing of consequence occurred and portraying them as routine diplomatic encounters that went nowhere. But Mr. Gorkov, who previously served as deputy chairman of the board at Sberbank, Russia’s largest state-owned bank, said in a statement issued by his bank that he met with Mr. Kushner in his capacity as the then-chief executive of Kushner Companies, his family’s sprawling real estate empire.

Members of presidential transition teams routinely meet with foreign officials, and there is nothing inherently improper about sitting down with the Russian ambassador. Part of Mr. Kushner’s role during the campaign and the transition was to serve as a chief conduit to foreign governments and officials, and Ms. Hicks said he met with dozens of officials from a wide range of countries.

She added that Mr. Kushner was willing to talk to Senate investigators about the meetings with Mr. Kislyak and the banker, saying, “He isn’t trying to hide anything and wants to be transparent.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/27/us/p ... ussia.html

Hmmm...

Perhaps the feds have tape recordings of those meetings...(They would certainly have every legitimate national security reason to have Kysliak and Gorkov bugged...we already know they've got Kysliak's phone bugged from the Flynn revelations...but of course if they've been able to get electronic intel of meetings these characters have been having on Russian soil, that gets into some very sensitive and highly classified sources and methods issues...)

If, (as seems extremely likely) the "senior advisor" is Kushner, this could get very interesting very fast...

It's virtually inconceivable that Kushner wouldn't have kept Trump in the loop on what he was doing, but on the other hand he'd seem to be the least likely to be willing to flip....

But of course that depends on what the Feds have on him...

The prospect of a possible 30 year prison sentence has a remarkable way of getting a person to re-think their loyalties....(even family loyalties)

Kushner's old man did a stretch in the pen for illegal campaign contributions, tax evasion, and witness tampering; it can't be a prospect that appeals to Jared...

And also if it is Kushner, that would go a long way towards explaining why Trump has been willing to be so brazen and reckless in his efforts to get the investigation shutdown...

Stay tuned...

[Lord Jim]

John McCain made a very apt observation last week, (before the Mueller appointment, and before the latest carpet bombing of bombshells)

Washington (CNN)Sen. John McCain invoked Watergate in describing the escalating controversy surrounding alleged ties between President Donald Trump's campaign and Russia.

"I think it's reaching the point where it's of Watergate size and scale, and a couple of other scandals you and I have seen," the Arizona Republican said Tuesday night. "It's the centipede that the shoe continues to drop. Every couple of days, there's a new aspect of this really unhappy situation."[He might want to change that now to "every couple of hours"]

..."Whenever you have something like this it's very difficult to move forward because it requires people's attention and it's being diverted," he added. "Watergate took many months. This thing seems to be taking hours."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/17/politics/ ... ate-trump/

It's standard to say that any possible impeachment inquiry is "a long way off"...

But less than two weeks ago, (before Comey was fired) most people would have said that the appointment of a Special Counsel was "a long way off"....

I'm not suggesting that an impeachment inquiry is likely to be launched next week, but if things continue to unravel at the pace that they are, I think it's possible we could be talking about a lot sooner than you might think...(months, not years)

Even with a Republican Congress...

ETA:

PS -- the Trumpanzee is a fucking idiot. Dick Nixon could have taught him a thing or two.....

Man, ain't that the truth...

It took nearly a year for the Watergate cover-up to start to unravel...(From June of '72 to April of '73)

Today marks Trump's fourth month in office, and he's already got four congressional investigations, a Special Counsel, and people looking for immunity deals...

If he were a careful, thoughtful, and deliberative person, he would probably be doing a much better job of concealing his nefarious conduct...

American democracy has a secret, (well, not so secret) weapon in Trump's ineptitude...

[BoSoxGal]

This family is so corrupt and so arrogant - it's breathtaking. I am going to enjoy every minute of this spectacle! I am loving the new revelations about Comey's opinions of Trump & his senior officials ('not honorable people'), and can't wait for his public testimony.

[MajGenl.Meade]

"It's the centipede that the shoe continues to drop."

Is there a prize for guessing whatever the heck the old guy means?

[RayThom]

"It's the centipede that the shoe continues to drop."

Is there a prize for guessing whatever the heck the old guy means?

Let's try this:

http://www.politico.eu/article/mccain-o ... centipede/

[Lord Jim]

"It's the centipede that the shoe continues to drop."

Is there a prize for guessing whatever the heck the old guy means?

If there was, then everyone except the extremely dense, (and those pretending to be extremely dense...) would win it, because for everyone else what "the old guy" meant was bloody obvious...

Irregardless (and yes, I used "irregardless" just to annoy you ) of how inartfully he may have said it...