When one creature risks its life to save the life of another creature absent any obvious immediate self-preservation advantage, one must contemplate that some higher order thought process may be occurring.
Of course intelligence doesn't equal morality; psychopathy in the human animal is a great example of that reality.
Doreen's story
Re: Doreen's story
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
Re: Doreen's story
LJ, absent the myth of God, what makes human life morally superior to other animal life?
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
Re: Doreen's story
Who or what is doing the contemplating?one must contemplate that some higher order thought process may be occurring
That's the crux of the biscuit...
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is
Re: Doreen's story
So I take it from that , that you do not see human life as having a greater moral value than that of other animals?LJ, absent the myth of God, what makes human life morally superior to other animal life?
So you would save the kittens and let the child drown then?
The logic of your position would seem to compel that decision.
Re: Doreen's story
I'm sure I would attempt to save the child, LJ.
That doesn't prevent me from acknowledging that the child is more likely to cause harm in its lifetime than are the kittens.
And if the little human started drowning me in the process of the attempted rescue, I'd abandon it. There are millions more to carry on the species, and I feel no particular need to put my life at great risk to save just one more. Were it my own child, the self-interest would be, obviously, far greater.
That doesn't prevent me from acknowledging that the child is more likely to cause harm in its lifetime than are the kittens.
And if the little human started drowning me in the process of the attempted rescue, I'd abandon it. There are millions more to carry on the species, and I feel no particular need to put my life at great risk to save just one more. Were it my own child, the self-interest would be, obviously, far greater.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
Re: Doreen's story
Amoral and immoral are 2 different birds...Of course intelligence doesn't equal morality; psychopathy in the human animal is a great example of that reality.
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is
Re: Doreen's story
Geez, thanks keld; not sure I would have known that without you telling me. 
These condescending witty one liners are really advancing your position.
Not.
These condescending witty one liners are really advancing your position.
Not.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
Re: Doreen's story
Since you are so clever, tell us in your opinion which of the two is descriptive of the average human psychopath?
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
Re: Doreen's story
Why?I'm sure I would attempt to save the child, LJ.
If there's no more moral worth to the life of the child than there is to that of the kittens, why wouldn't it make more sense to save six lives rather than one?
Re: Doreen's story
For the director of music. Of David. The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.bigskygal wrote:Humans are merely advanced primates; there is no God.
Psalm 14:1
Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.
yrs,
rubato
Re: Doreen's story
An entire post up in smoke, piss on it...
ETA: love that back button.
ETA: love that back button.
Last edited by Rick on Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is
Re: Doreen's story
OK take the example of a Judas goat.
He leads other animals to their death do we blame the goat?
Now translate that to humans in what universe do we not at least try to prosecute the individual that lead others to their death.
As for positions, mine is sound yers is the one in question.
PETA would insist that all yer moral critters subsisted on veggies.
That would make the parasitic mistletoe moral yet the non parasitic lion immoral.
So tying this into the OP the societal parasite Doreen is moral.
My work here is done...
He leads other animals to their death do we blame the goat?
Now translate that to humans in what universe do we not at least try to prosecute the individual that lead others to their death.
As for positions, mine is sound yers is the one in question.
PETA would insist that all yer moral critters subsisted on veggies.
That would make the parasitic mistletoe moral yet the non parasitic lion immoral.
So tying this into the OP the societal parasite Doreen is moral.
My work here is done...
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is
Re: Doreen's story
Because I live in a society with generally accepted moral standards to which the majority give lip service and in which I must continue to get along, preferably free of harassment.Lord Jim wrote:Why?I'm sure I would attempt to save the child, LJ.
If there's no more moral worth to the life of the child than there is to that of the kittens, why wouldn't it make more sense to save six lives rather than one?
Honestly, in my opinion there are more than enough human children and kittens on the planet, so I suppose my best course of action is to stay off the beach.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
Re: Doreen's story
If humans are just another form of primate, animals that is; then why can't humanity stay in harmony with our environment, like other animals do?
Why do we war with good and evil/yin and yang, within us?
The lowest intelligent human should be able to understand; that if we forgave and cooperated, this planet could be a paradise.
Animals can do that, why can't man?
Why do we war with good and evil/yin and yang, within us?
The lowest intelligent human should be able to understand; that if we forgave and cooperated, this planet could be a paradise.
Animals can do that, why can't man?
Re: Doreen's story
Okay, so the only reason you see for saving the life of a child rather than half a dozen kittens is fear of punishment or societal disapproval.Because I live in a society with generally accepted moral standards to which the majority give lip service and in which I must continue to get along, preferably free of harassment.
Got it.
Re: Doreen's story
To be fair Jim, there is more than just morality at play in that scenario. The maternal instinct for starters...Lord Jim wrote:Why?I'm sure I would attempt to save the child, LJ.
If there's no more moral worth to the life of the child than there is to that of the kittens, why wouldn't it make more sense to save six lives rather than one?
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?
Re: Doreen's story
I would try to save a child over the kittens.
I don't think I'm maternal...
I don't think I'm maternal...
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is
Re: Doreen's story
I'd save the kittens...
I like kittens....
...can't stand kids...
I like kittens....
...can't stand kids...
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: Doreen's story
LJ, I find the exercise a bit pointless; I'd try to save a drowning person because it would be instinctive, but that video I posted a few weeks/months ago showed a dog trying to save an injured dog on the highway.
So again, absent your beliefs in the God myth, what makes human life superior to other animal life?
Just that some of us think it is, right?
Last edited by BoSoxGal on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
Re: Doreen's story
Oh my, that is a rather telling statement.Gob wrote:I'd save the kittens...
I like kittens....
...can't stand kids...
Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.
yrs,
rubato