The U.S. Government Should Stop Making Cents

[MajGenl.Meade]

Big RR that is so non-reality. I do and have done a lot of air travelling. In security lines, people almost without exception put coins into the little container along with their watches, cell phones and so on. I have yet to see the need for any extra security people to handle all this traffic. Dollar coins are not going to make a difference.

British people are not noticeably inconvenienced at Heathrow security by hour after of hour of culling pound coins from their pockets, socks and underwear. Nor are those of other countries who've been weaned away from cuddling their paper (and almost valueless) dollars equivalents.

You only need to carry (I repeat) 4 dollar coins at any time. Carry the rest in $5 notes. It can be figured out quite easily so that your pockets are not banging against your ankles

Meade

[Big RR]

Meade--Perhaps that's your experience, but I have rarely been in a security line where someone did not have to go through the scanner again because they inadvertantly left something (usually a coin) in their pocket after believing it to be empty. IMHO, dollar coins will mean more people carrying more change which will lead to more delays. If this isn't a prblem in England, well perhaps they are better at making certain their pockets are empty.

And FWIW, I don't cuddle my paper notes, but I find them far more convenient to carry and handle than coins. And as for being "almost valueless", it has been a long time (at least in the US) since coins were minted in precious metal and had any real intrinsic value--they are minted of worthless metal and are nearly as valueless as any paper note.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I agree with your first - but that has no bearing on whether or not paper dollars should be replaced by a coin. You seem to point out what I said - people in security scanner lines already do have coins in their pockets. Why should the pure number of people carrying quarters and dimes be increased if there are also dollar coins in circulation? It will be almost certainly the same number of people plus you if you never before carried coins on a plane.

Intrinsic value is not relevant. The fact is that a dollar buys almost nothing; carry $5 bills instead. You'll still never need to carry more than four coin dollars. If something costs $3 - thats three coins. The next item costs $3 and you have to give 'em a $5 and get $2 in coins back. Same 4 coins again. Why if you spend $4 twice you only end up with two coins.

Now if having four coins in the pocket is onerous, just imagine the savings on wear, tear and weight on your wallet - instead of the 100 $1 bills you are currently lugging about, you only have to carry 20 $5s. Break away from the paper and save a tree!

Meade

[Jarlaxle]

Meade--Perhaps that's your experience, but I have rarely been in a security line where someone did not have to go through the scanner again because they inadvertantly left something (usually a coin) in their pocket after believing it to be empty. IMHO, dollar coins will mean more people carrying more change which will lead to more delays. If this isn't a prblem in England, well perhaps they are better at making certain their pockets are empty.

And FWIW, I don't cuddle my paper notes, but I find them far more convenient to carry and handle than coins. And as for being "almost valueless", it has been a long time (at least in the US) since coins were minted in precious metal and had any real intrinsic value--they are minted of worthless metal and are nearly as valueless as any paper note.

Pennies and nickels are worth considerably more than their face value as scrap metal!

[Grim Reaper]

This year, the cost to produce a penny is 2.41 cents and nickels cost 11.18 cents. The Treasury Department is currently working on a new composition to lower production costs.

And the current cost of producing a dollar coin is 18 cents.

[Lord Jim]

And the current cost of producing a dollar coin is 18 cents.

Sounds like good value for money! (So to speak....)

There are some other points that have been made in this thread since I last posted that I plan to address, (particularly some from Gen'l Meade) but the past few days I've been alternating between taking advantage of some unusually nice weather, and being busier than a one-armed pick-pocket at an Occupy demonstration...

[Grim Reaper]

Well, I said "currently", but the cost would likely rise some if they had to make ten times as many of the coins as they do currently to take over for dollar bills being replaced.

[Lord Jim]

I have suspected that the reason some folks are in favor of this wildly and fiercely unpopular (when at least 38% of the people are saying that they will vote against a person on this issue alone...the majority of the 75% opposed to it in the most recent polling data.... that's pretty much the definition of "fiercely unpopular") anti-democratic scheme to shove the dollar coin down the throats of the American people isn't really the niggling amount of money it would save....

I suspect that if a poll were taken asking folks if they would still be opposed to the elimination of the paper dollar if they knew that it was costing 0.000 (how ever many zeros you have to add before you get to a number other than zero,) percent of the federal budget to avoid having the dollar coin foisted on them, that the percentage of folks opposed to the idea wouldn't drop by even one percent from the 75-80% who consistently oppose it. Hell, the percentage opposed might even go up...(" Gee, I had no idea it cost that little....I got the impression from the media it was a lot more than that...if it's that cheap to keep the paper dollar, put me down in favor."

No, I suspect the unspoken reason that some folks are in favor of this fiat approach is because, well, they'd just like to see the US fall more into line with the practices of other countries....

Particularly, well...you know...European countries...

Because after all, we'd be ever so much better a country if we just did more things like European countries...they're much more "enlightened" and we should follow their lead and example; and if the yahoos and yokels here don't understand that, fuck'em...

We should do it anyway...it's for their own good, they just don't know what's best for them....

Of course that that doesn't explain everybody who supports this....

It certainly doesn't explain that ninny Republican Congressman from Arizona, David Schweikert who introduced the going absolutely nowhere legislation in favor of this....(We Republicans aren't generally know for having a fetish for thinking that the US should try to be more "European")

So I did a little research, and imagine my surprise when I discovered that as of 2010:

Arizona accounted for 63% of primary copper production in the U.S.

http://azgeology.azgs.az.gov/article/mi ... ing-review

And then happened upon this stunning coincidence:

House votes to boost huge Arizona copper mine

by Erin Kelly - Oct. 27, 2011 12:00 AM

WASHINGTON - House passage of a bill to allow creation of North America's largest copper mine represents more than just an important victory for a project that supporters have been pushing for six years.

It also is expected to become a big issue in at least two congressional campaigns in Arizona. And it has been swept up in the national debate between Republicans and Democrats over which party is better at creating jobs.

The clearest winner is freshman Rep. Paul Gosar, R-Ariz., who sponsored the bill the House passed Wednesday 235-186.

Developers say the mine near Superior would create 3,700 jobs and satisfy 25 percent of the nation's demand for copper. Opponents question how many jobs would really be created and say the project could damage tribal lands and the area's water supply

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepubli ... z1xd7k8u2z

Schweikert wants to get rid of the dollar bill

Tuesday, September 20, 2011 at 09:20 PM

WASHINGTON -- Freshman Rep. David Schweikert, R-Ariz., wants to retire the paper U.S. dollar bill and switch Americans to the $1 coin.

Schweikert, who sits on the influential House Financial Services Committee, on Tuesday introduced a bill that would get rid of the paper dollar in four years or less. The legislation is titled the Currency Optimization, Innovation and National Savings, or COINS, Act.

He said changing the dollar from paper to coin would save taxpayers lots and lots of dollars over the next three decades.

“Protecting taxpayer dollars has never been more critical," [ that's a good one Dave] Schweikert said in a written statement. "One area where Americans may be surprised to learn we can save money is in our currency. By making this transition from a dollar bill to a dollar coin, the U.S. will save $184 million a year and nearly $6 billion over 30 years."

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/azdc/142618

So, just a little over one month prior to a vote, (that he had to know was coming) to vastly increase copper mining in the number one copper producing state in the US, a congressman from that copper producing state introduces a bill to replace the paper one dollar bill (that the vast majority of people want) with a coin dollar (that almost no one wants)...

A coin dollar that would just happen to be made primarily out of....

guess what?

Copper!

[Gob]

Particularly, well...you know...European countries...

Because after all, we'd be ever so much better a country if we just did more things like European countries...they're much more "enlightened" and we should follow their lead and example; and if the yahoos and yokels here don't understand that, fuck'em...

At last, Jim sees sense!!

[Jarlaxle]

Well, I said "currently", but the cost would likely rise some if they had to make ten times as many of the coins as they do currently to take over for dollar bills being replaced.

If anything, the opposite is true...increasing production will drive the per-unit cost DOWN, not up.

As for the copper issue, the solution is simple: instead of making them out of copper, make them out of different metal (zinc plated with copper or brass, maybe?). Note: this will make them cheaper to produce.

[dales]

Make them out of recycleable plastic.

Pennies are next to worthless, anyway.

[Joe Guy]

No. Just don't make them.

It's not that complicated.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Three coins in a fountain
Each one seeking happiness
Thrown by three hopeless losers
Which one will the fountain bless

Three farts are not agreeing
LJ hates coins and Euros
As usual Meade's just waffling on
The third says that's the way it goes

Which one will the fountain bless
Which one will the fountain bless

Three coins in a fountain
Big RR opens wide his soulful eyes
Just his voice we hear chanting
His warm and heartfelt compromise

Keep the dime, keep the dime, keep the dime

[Timster]

Nice one. Waxing poetical whilst surfing the borde I see.

[Lord Jim]

You only need to carry (I repeat) 4 dollar coins at any time. Carry the rest in $5 notes. It can be figured out quite easily so that your pockets are not banging against your ankles

I'll thank you to keep your hands out of my pockets General....

[rubato]

"...
No, I suspect the unspoken reason that some folks are in favor of this fiat approach is because, well, they'd just like to see the US fall more into line with the practices of other countries....

Particularly, well...you know...European countries...

Because after all, we'd be ever so much better a country if we just did more things like European countries...they're much more "enlightened" and we should follow their lead and example; ....
... "

All of the G20 are ongoing experiments in self-government. Sometimes other countries do things better than we do and an intelligent person would learn from their experience.

<< Proverb >>
"
All men learn from experience, yes!
The intelligent man learns from others' experience.
The stupid man from his own.
"

How does leadership work?


yrs,
rubato

[Sue U]

Jim is still cranky about no longer using guineas, shillings and pieces of eight.

[Guinevere]

And ha'pennies!

[Rick]

If ya take away the pennies would our monetary system still be base ten?

[Crackpot]

you know now that I think about it the one dollar coin stopped bothering me when they introduced the two dollar coin. That greatly reduced the amount of coinage in the pockets