I just found out I will have the rather dubious distinction of becoming a great-great aunt. My 17 year old great niece who just finished high school early (and was supposed to be heading off to college early) is knocked up by her boyfriend, age uncertain, career path uncertain, educational status uncertain. Facebook is exploding with expressions of delight as if this was wondrous and a good thing. I as yet have not responded because I am not happy. I had high hopes for this child, that she would do things in the right order, education then family, meet a few guys who were not from Podunk Indiana and perhaps see the world a bit before the reproductive thing took over.
Any thoughtful suggestions on what I can say that does not convey approval but isn't downright rude? Or is mum the best route?
Auntie Bette not pleased
Re: Auntie Bette not pleased
"If you cannot say anything nice, don't say anything at all." 
We were shocked to learn that "Ginger Steff", a kid Hatch was friendly with and went through school with, popped one out after Xmas.
We were shocked to learn that "Ginger Steff", a kid Hatch was friendly with and went through school with, popped one out after Xmas.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: Auntie Bette not pleased
Is she past the end of the 2nd trimester?
If not, she still has a choice. If there is a discreet and appropriate way to do it I'd point out the advantages of termination, like reducing the chance she will be in poverty for the rest of her life and increasing the chance she will get the kind of education that leads to a career and personal autonomy. And there is adoption.
The chance that the FOB (father of baby) will be any kind of an asset is low. And if he is her age and has her lack of education his ability to be an asset is very very low.
Make sure she understands that it is a cold cruel world and she'll be on her own for the most part. Sure, her 'friends' and family now say they'll be there for her but the reality is that they will just scratch until it stops itching (provide a little support until their conscience goes to sleep); and it will stop itching before her needs are met. And while we're on the subject does she want to be the financial and resource drain that pulls down her whole family? An uneducated woman with a child has little chance of marrying someone later on with any education or valuable life skills.
yrs,
rubato
If not, she still has a choice. If there is a discreet and appropriate way to do it I'd point out the advantages of termination, like reducing the chance she will be in poverty for the rest of her life and increasing the chance she will get the kind of education that leads to a career and personal autonomy. And there is adoption.
The chance that the FOB (father of baby) will be any kind of an asset is low. And if he is her age and has her lack of education his ability to be an asset is very very low.
Make sure she understands that it is a cold cruel world and she'll be on her own for the most part. Sure, her 'friends' and family now say they'll be there for her but the reality is that they will just scratch until it stops itching (provide a little support until their conscience goes to sleep); and it will stop itching before her needs are met. And while we're on the subject does she want to be the financial and resource drain that pulls down her whole family? An uneducated woman with a child has little chance of marrying someone later on with any education or valuable life skills.
yrs,
rubato
Re: Auntie Bette not pleased
No, probably no tactful way of suggesting she get an abortion. No idea how far along she is. Most of the rest of what you say is likely the truth though.rubato wrote:Is she past the end of the 2nd trimester?
If not, she still has a choice. If there is a discreet and appropriate way to do it I'd point out the advantages of termination, like reducing the chance she will be in poverty for the rest of her life and increasing the chance she will get the kind of education that leads to a career and personal autonomy. And there is adoption.
The chance that the FOB (father of baby) will be any kind of an asset is low. And if he is her age and has her lack of education his ability to be an asset is very very low.
Make sure she understands that it is a cold cruel world and she'll be on her own for the most part. Sure, her 'friends' and family now say they'll be there for her but the reality is that they will just scratch until it stops itching (provide a little support until their conscience goes to sleep); and it will stop itching before her needs are met. And while we're on the subject does she want to be the financial and resource drain that pulls down her whole family? An uneducated woman with a child has little chance of marrying someone later on with any education or valuable life skills.
yrs,
rubato
Gob probably is right, if you don't have anything nice to say...and I truly do not.
Re: Auntie Bette not pleased
If everybody else who's close to her is telling her how great this is and you say nothing, that in and of itself should have the affect of conveying disapproval without being rude...
Re: Auntie Bette not pleased
You've done too much
much too young
Now you're married with a kid
when you could be having fun with me
oh no, no gimme no more pickni
You've done too much
much too young
Now you're married with a son
when you should be having fun with me
we don't want, we don't want
we don't want no more pickni
Ain't he cute?
No he ain't
He's just another burden
on the welfare state
You've done too much
much too young
Now you're married with a kid
when you could be having fun with me
no gimme,no gimme,no gimme no more pickni
Call me immature
Call me a poser
I'd love to spread manure in your bed of roses
Don't want to be rich
Don't want to be famous
But I'd really hate to have the same name as you
(you silly moo)
You've done too much
much too young
Now you're married with a kid
when you could be having fun with me
gi we de birth control, we no want no pickni
You've done too much
much too young
Now you're chained to the cooker
making currant buns for tea
oh no, no gimme no more pickni
Ain't you heard of the starving millions
Ain't you heard of contraception
Do you really a program of sterilization
Take control of the population boom
It's in your living room
Keep a generation gap
Try wearing a cap
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: Auntie Bette not pleased
I have the perfect words to say to her. I would say..... Oh yeah... I forgot...never mind.
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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Auntie Bette not pleased
..."mum is the best route" seems to be the opposite of the facts! 
This "mum to-be" (contra rubato) appears to have been far from uneducated - finishing high school and entering college early is usually a sign of great potential while early pregnancy is usually the opposite. Until Faecesbook releases the "Sympathy" button, there's no good alternative to "Like".
But I think you are correct not to toss in a contrary opinion to all this "joy" unsolicited. What's done is done - the young lady has made a choice. It serves no purpose to wag the finger and point out all the great harm etc. - it changes nothing and brings only unhappiness.
You've probably already considered how you will handle a direct question if your great-niece raises the issue with you (or other family members do).
FWIW my granddaughter (now an extremely intelligent, beautiful 20-something, ultra-involved in "women's issues"; Clinton Foundation; six months in Ghana; that kind of thing) was once a "huge mistake" by my college freshman daughter who had to drop out and chose to marry the chump ... er chap. My granddaughter is as far from a mistake as one can imagine and is, along with her brother, the shining beacon of light and hope to her mother.
Even if she were to make the same mistake as her mother, while one might mourn what could have been, there is much to celebrate in what is and what may be. How much better it is to have a granddaughter than that she should have been aborted.
Perhaps a similarly wonderful great great niece (with your help and guidance) is as likely as or even more likely than the gloomy prophecies of others. God bless
Meade
This "mum to-be" (contra rubato) appears to have been far from uneducated - finishing high school and entering college early is usually a sign of great potential while early pregnancy is usually the opposite. Until Faecesbook releases the "Sympathy" button, there's no good alternative to "Like". But I think you are correct not to toss in a contrary opinion to all this "joy" unsolicited. What's done is done - the young lady has made a choice. It serves no purpose to wag the finger and point out all the great harm etc. - it changes nothing and brings only unhappiness.
You've probably already considered how you will handle a direct question if your great-niece raises the issue with you (or other family members do).
FWIW my granddaughter (now an extremely intelligent, beautiful 20-something, ultra-involved in "women's issues"; Clinton Foundation; six months in Ghana; that kind of thing) was once a "huge mistake" by my college freshman daughter who had to drop out and chose to marry the chump ... er chap. My granddaughter is as far from a mistake as one can imagine and is, along with her brother, the shining beacon of light and hope to her mother.
Even if she were to make the same mistake as her mother, while one might mourn what could have been, there is much to celebrate in what is and what may be. How much better it is to have a granddaughter than that she should have been aborted.
Perhaps a similarly wonderful great great niece (with your help and guidance) is as likely as or even more likely than the gloomy prophecies of others. God bless
Meade
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
Re: Auntie Bette not pleased
Nice one Meade 
My three nices are all "born out of wedlock to teenage girls" kids.
One is in coach to the Welsh gymnastics team, one runs her own buisness, and the other, though only a supermarket worker is a good person and parent.
My three nices are all "born out of wedlock to teenage girls" kids.
One is in coach to the Welsh gymnastics team, one runs her own buisness, and the other, though only a supermarket worker is a good person and parent.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
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Reality Bytes
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Re: Auntie Bette not pleased
Having a baby whilst young does not have to mean the end of any dreams or successful careers/lives, when I was still at school my very bestest friend got pregnant at 15 and as her family were staunch Catholics there was never any possibility of her not going through with the pregnancy, nor was the sperm donor involved in any way as he was in and out of prison and as far as I know still is 
she had to leave school before taking any qualifications & was married to another man & pregnant again within a few years. However, she didn't give up and put herself through college and night school whilst raising 2 children, got divorced and raised the boys as a single mum whilst working and studying and eventually did her teacher training, remarried had her daughter in her late 30's and is currently a senior college lecturer.
A family member also got pregnant at 15 marrried at 16 to a drunken asshole who walked out on them after a string of affairs when the baby was barely a year old, she made a series of very bad choices regarding men drug users, drunks, abusers etc. but somehow still managed to get through a nursing degree, she had another child in her 40's and is now happily married and a very senior director with a healthcare agency earning a heck of a lot more than I do.
Sometimes I wonder if either of them would have been as motivated to succeed if they had just left school and gone to college or into the workforce without the early pregnancies
she had to leave school before taking any qualifications & was married to another man & pregnant again within a few years. However, she didn't give up and put herself through college and night school whilst raising 2 children, got divorced and raised the boys as a single mum whilst working and studying and eventually did her teacher training, remarried had her daughter in her late 30's and is currently a senior college lecturer. A family member also got pregnant at 15 marrried at 16 to a drunken asshole who walked out on them after a string of affairs when the baby was barely a year old, she made a series of very bad choices regarding men drug users, drunks, abusers etc. but somehow still managed to get through a nursing degree, she had another child in her 40's and is now happily married and a very senior director with a healthcare agency earning a heck of a lot more than I do.
Sometimes I wonder if either of them would have been as motivated to succeed if they had just left school and gone to college or into the workforce without the early pregnancies
If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you may have misjudged the situation.
Re: Auntie Bette not pleased
Well I just found out the baby is due in April. I suppose she was no longer able to hide the pregnancy so the announcement was made. Oy.
The girls mother who is my nephew's ex wife was very young when she started her family. They got married right out of high school and apparently never gave further education a thought. I adore her, she has been a top notch mom and is always good and kind to others. She had a happy marriage to her second husband who was an exemplary step-dad. Unfortunately he passed away about a year and a half age from malignant melanoma after many years of fighting. She (the girl's mom) is still reeling from that. In addition, her sister had an aneurysm a few months ago and is rehabbing in a nursing home after a long stint in a coma. She is a very devoted sister and spends every free moment at the nursing home with the sister. I anticipate a full recovery but that takes a frustratingly long time to come about in these cases. She is too busy to be a grandmother.
My nephew, God love him, is a redneck douchebag.
He was a good father on many levels, they had split custody of the kids, he raised the boy and she took the girls. He remarried a lovely woman who is my age, 11 years older than him, then decided it would be a good idea to start beating her. (never laid a hand on wife one) Our relationship cooled when I threatened to beat him senseless with a baseball bat if he touched her again. (Ah family dynamics, don't you just have to love them?) He stopped because in addition to that his mother threatened to hire a lawyer for his ex and have her take sole custody of the kids. He appears to be behaving.
The oldest child, a boy, got a baseball scholarship and went to college. He is now an engineer. (Beaming proudly.) Second child overcame learning difficulties and is in beauty college. I am proud of her too.
This girl, the youngest, was on her way to accounting school. Hopefully that will not be totally derailed by this. She is stunning and worked as a model while in highschool.
So far mum is the word from me. On the plus side this little person will be a good excuse for us to go to t-ball games again.
The girls mother who is my nephew's ex wife was very young when she started her family. They got married right out of high school and apparently never gave further education a thought. I adore her, she has been a top notch mom and is always good and kind to others. She had a happy marriage to her second husband who was an exemplary step-dad. Unfortunately he passed away about a year and a half age from malignant melanoma after many years of fighting. She (the girl's mom) is still reeling from that. In addition, her sister had an aneurysm a few months ago and is rehabbing in a nursing home after a long stint in a coma. She is a very devoted sister and spends every free moment at the nursing home with the sister. I anticipate a full recovery but that takes a frustratingly long time to come about in these cases. She is too busy to be a grandmother.
My nephew, God love him, is a redneck douchebag.
He was a good father on many levels, they had split custody of the kids, he raised the boy and she took the girls. He remarried a lovely woman who is my age, 11 years older than him, then decided it would be a good idea to start beating her. (never laid a hand on wife one) Our relationship cooled when I threatened to beat him senseless with a baseball bat if he touched her again. (Ah family dynamics, don't you just have to love them?) He stopped because in addition to that his mother threatened to hire a lawyer for his ex and have her take sole custody of the kids. He appears to be behaving. The oldest child, a boy, got a baseball scholarship and went to college. He is now an engineer. (Beaming proudly.) Second child overcame learning difficulties and is in beauty college. I am proud of her too.
This girl, the youngest, was on her way to accounting school. Hopefully that will not be totally derailed by this. She is stunning and worked as a model while in highschool.
So far mum is the word from me. On the plus side this little person will be a good excuse for us to go to t-ball games again.
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oldr_n_wsr
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Re: Auntie Bette not pleased
First off, forget putting anything on Facebook, twitter or even text message. Talk directly (or write a letter and hand it or mail it to her) to the young lady. Do not judge as what is done is done. Point out what a lovely, smart young lady she is and what she is in for. Do not be overly negative. If your g-niece is as intelligent as you say she is, she already is aware of her situation (pros and cons). Be the grand-aunty and support her and point out how many others have over come similar obsticles. (I got married, had 2 kids, went to night school and got my BSEE at age 40) You can express your disappointment but feather it with your continued hope and support for her. The worst thing she needs to hear is "WHAT THE HELL DID YOU DO? WHAT WERE YOU THINKING, YOUR THROWING AWAY YOUR FUTURE, YOUR GOING TO BE POOR AND MISERABLE FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, YOU COULD HAVE BEEN SOMEBODY, blah blah blah"
I couldn't decifer from your posts how much support her immediate family might/could give, but you can support her and the child emotionally and perhaps a bit financially. Maybe not in direct dollars, but with the outfit or blanket or any other of the many things a kid needs and emotionally to your niece. Only you can determine how much and what kind of support she gets from you. Other peoples support is out of your control.
I thought of this same scenario when my kids were teens. Thankfully they have made it to 28 and 24 with no "ooops" and are on their way to full adulthood, have graduated college (daughter anyway) and both have descent jobs and appear to be stable (for the moment.)
I can't say what my immediate emotional reaction would have been, but my thought reactions were along the lines of giving as much love and support to the parent and even more to the child. They are the innocent in this whole situation and deserve unconditional love from all involved. Abortion was not something I would have wanted and would have counceled against it, but would have left the decision up to them. Financial support would have also been given, either in the form of them living with us or many other ways if he/she went out on their own. I come from a close knit family as does my wife, (no divorces in either sets of parents nor in us or any of our siblings). I know the "troops" would rally regardless of their individual opinions on the matter.
My best wishes to you and your g-niece.
I couldn't decifer from your posts how much support her immediate family might/could give, but you can support her and the child emotionally and perhaps a bit financially. Maybe not in direct dollars, but with the outfit or blanket or any other of the many things a kid needs and emotionally to your niece. Only you can determine how much and what kind of support she gets from you. Other peoples support is out of your control.
I thought of this same scenario when my kids were teens. Thankfully they have made it to 28 and 24 with no "ooops" and are on their way to full adulthood, have graduated college (daughter anyway) and both have descent jobs and appear to be stable (for the moment.)
I can't say what my immediate emotional reaction would have been, but my thought reactions were along the lines of giving as much love and support to the parent and even more to the child. They are the innocent in this whole situation and deserve unconditional love from all involved. Abortion was not something I would have wanted and would have counceled against it, but would have left the decision up to them. Financial support would have also been given, either in the form of them living with us or many other ways if he/she went out on their own. I come from a close knit family as does my wife, (no divorces in either sets of parents nor in us or any of our siblings). I know the "troops" would rally regardless of their individual opinions on the matter.
My best wishes to you and your g-niece.
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oldr_n_wsr
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Re: Auntie Bette not pleased
I am very happy that I do not have the type of family/support described above. If it were my child (son or daughter) who had the child, while it may be a "resource drain", I would be glad to make the sacrifices for one of my own family. After all, it's family. I would gladly forego the 1000inch 5dimension ULTRA Super High Def TV and any other of those "gotta haves" to help support one of my own, especially a child of my child (or even my nieces and nephew). I think too many people today think of the inconvenience to themselves rather than helping someone else, even if it means having 7-11 coffee rather than starbucks coffee everyday. Of course they would have to pull their own weight also and not just lay there and expect a free ride, but my kids never expected a free ride and now, sometimes take it to the opposite extreme. that is, they very reluctant to ask for the "hand up" even when they really need it. But I'm the same way also.Make sure she understands that it is a cold cruel world and she'll be on her own for the most part. Sure, her 'friends' and family now say they'll be there for her but the reality is that they will just scratch until it stops itching (provide a little support until their conscience goes to sleep); and it will stop itching before her needs are met. And while we're on the subject does she want to be the financial and resource drain that pulls down her whole family? An uneducated woman with a child has little chance of marrying someone later on with any education or valuable life skills.
But that's just me and mine, your milage may vary.
Again, best wishes.
Re: Auntie Bette not pleased
Thanks oldr. Finally said, " Well that's quite a surprise to wake up to. I would like the kid's t-ball schedule now please. 
" They are notoriously bad at getting these schedules out so it's an appropriate joke.
Now it's time to go shopping.
" They are notoriously bad at getting these schedules out so it's an appropriate joke.Now it's time to go shopping.
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oldr_n_wsr
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Re: Auntie Bette not pleased
Enjoy the new little person soon to be in your life.
Re: Auntie Bette not pleased
We had a "scare" like this (which proved to be nothing, thankfully) a number of years back, and my reaction was much like oldr; I told my daughter I'd support her in whatever decision she made and weighed in on which option(s) I endorsed, and left the decision to her. I also told her she wouldn't have to worry and we'd step in and help out with support of any kind (as needed), but that any child would be her responsibility as well, indeed, the primary responsibility would be hers. Thankfully, we didn't have to follow this all the way through.
Just stand by to offer her the support and comfort you feel able to; that's what great aunts are for.
Just stand by to offer her the support and comfort you feel able to; that's what great aunts are for.
Re: Auntie Bette not pleased
Lovely how the conservatives all endorse a choice which they will use as an excuse for doing nothing for the mother and child and further excuse taking away all chance at a chance of a normal life.
"I paid a shitload of money to give my kids all the advantages why should the kid of some whore get into a good college ahead of them?"
yrs,
rubato
"I paid a shitload of money to give my kids all the advantages why should the kid of some whore get into a good college ahead of them?"
yrs,
rubato
Re: Auntie Bette not pleased
rubato wrote:Lovely how the conservatives all endorse a choice which they will use as an excuse for doing nothing for the mother and child and further excuse taking away all chance at a chance of a normal life.
"I paid a shitload of money to give my kids all the advantages why should the kid of some whore get into a good college ahead of them?"
yrs,
rubato
