i have a question for you legal and medical folks out there....
first i ll preface it by saying i don t support the death penalty, tho in the case of red handed child killers or serial killers or serial rapists, i could probably be talked into exceptions. maybe.
my question is about all the problems with the drugs used to kill and the controversy surrounding them.
if we are going to execute someone, why can t we just give them an overdose of morphine and let them slip quietly into death?
death penalty
Re: death penalty
My recollection is morphine is not as reliable; also it often induces vomiting and convulsions before death which would make it less "comfortable" (more inhumane) than the current cocktail, and takes a much longer time to result in death. Indeed, I think many veterinarians use similar cocktails of drugs as are used in many DP states to euthanize animals as we use for the death penalty.
Re: death penalty
Complications might include: Finding a vein that is in good enough shape to deliver the drug, or in some cases, finding a vein at all, since some are hideously overweight, and finding veins on the overweight can be problematic,keeping the IV patent once it is in,finding the right drug amount to do the killing properly since there are multiple factors involved. As similar as humans are we can vary greatly under the skin.
I have seen a fair number of folks breathe their last. I can tell you that it ranges from peaceful to disturbingly jerky and violent whether morphine was involved or not.
I also had my dog put down once and rather than the peaceful end I had hoped for it was horrifying, she jerked, gasped and struggled and peed all over everything. I sobbed all the way home and swore to myself I would not do that to a dog again.
If I had my guesses I would say irrespective of the drugs they use the results will continue to be really unpleasant to watch.
I have seen a fair number of folks breathe their last. I can tell you that it ranges from peaceful to disturbingly jerky and violent whether morphine was involved or not.
I also had my dog put down once and rather than the peaceful end I had hoped for it was horrifying, she jerked, gasped and struggled and peed all over everything. I sobbed all the way home and swore to myself I would not do that to a dog again.If I had my guesses I would say irrespective of the drugs they use the results will continue to be really unpleasant to watch.
Re: death penalty
thanks rr. we had a much loved dog put down about a year ago. it was fairly peaceful. i still get nausea and convulsive sobbing from it tho.
fuck , i m crying now. damn dog was only two. most loving and loyal dog you ever wanted. every once in a while he would just get this weird look in his eyes and turning into a snarling frightening lunatic. 10 minutes later he would just be so sorry, and look so sad. he was just too big to take the chance anymore. i think he may have had some wolf in him.
i researched everything i could find about it. it seems that there is some kind of rage syndrome that is not well understood
what a great dog. he and our cat of the same age were best buds and would wrestle and play tag. the cat would jump right in his face and bite his nose and he would take the whole cat in his mouth and never hurt him.
their favorite game was for the dog to run full speed around the yard and the cat would hide in various bushes and just leap out unexpectedly, when he could, and fly five or six feet into the dog while the dog was at full speed. then the cat was diagnosed with feline leukemia a couple monthes later. poor thing was just laying up in the attic where it was warm when we found him. he couldn t even walk. we got him to the vet before he died, but there was no hope.
sorry to vent, but i m still torn up about it.
but i got back on the horse and picked up a half assed lab puppy last January. she s great but had an immune problem and started losing all her fur to mange. she was so bad for a while that i was ready to end her suffering too.
but good news! after much patience, money, and sulphur she is almost fully furred again and not miserable at all. a really smart happy little black dog.
fuck , i m crying now. damn dog was only two. most loving and loyal dog you ever wanted. every once in a while he would just get this weird look in his eyes and turning into a snarling frightening lunatic. 10 minutes later he would just be so sorry, and look so sad. he was just too big to take the chance anymore. i think he may have had some wolf in him.
i researched everything i could find about it. it seems that there is some kind of rage syndrome that is not well understood
what a great dog. he and our cat of the same age were best buds and would wrestle and play tag. the cat would jump right in his face and bite his nose and he would take the whole cat in his mouth and never hurt him.
their favorite game was for the dog to run full speed around the yard and the cat would hide in various bushes and just leap out unexpectedly, when he could, and fly five or six feet into the dog while the dog was at full speed. then the cat was diagnosed with feline leukemia a couple monthes later. poor thing was just laying up in the attic where it was warm when we found him. he couldn t even walk. we got him to the vet before he died, but there was no hope.
sorry to vent, but i m still torn up about it.
but i got back on the horse and picked up a half assed lab puppy last January. she s great but had an immune problem and started losing all her fur to mange. she was so bad for a while that i was ready to end her suffering too.
but good news! after much patience, money, and sulphur she is almost fully furred again and not miserable at all. a really smart happy little black dog.
Re: death penalty
The eighth amendment demands that IF we must have the death penalty, it must be carried out in the most humane way possible.
Now that European manufacturers of the various drugs comprising the lethal cocktail refuse to sell them to states with the death penalty, there is a good chance that challenges to the practice may result in at very least a moratorium.
In law school I clerked for the ABA's death penalty moratorium project; the work I did involved compiling stories of death penalty cases and the irregularities within that system. I have many objections to the death penalty, but when courts have ruled that a sleeping attorney is adequate counsel in a death penalty case, that alone is reason enough to abolish it.
Not to mention it puts us in league with the most abhorrent regimes on the planet.
It costs less to house for life a prisoner than it does to impose the death penalty - for many other reasons than the appellate process. Housing for life the most sadistic of criminals - child murderers, serial killers - is a small price, in my opinion, to pay for us to take the moral high ground and be sure we never again execute an innocent person, as we have done before.
Now that European manufacturers of the various drugs comprising the lethal cocktail refuse to sell them to states with the death penalty, there is a good chance that challenges to the practice may result in at very least a moratorium.
In law school I clerked for the ABA's death penalty moratorium project; the work I did involved compiling stories of death penalty cases and the irregularities within that system. I have many objections to the death penalty, but when courts have ruled that a sleeping attorney is adequate counsel in a death penalty case, that alone is reason enough to abolish it.
Not to mention it puts us in league with the most abhorrent regimes on the planet.
It costs less to house for life a prisoner than it does to impose the death penalty - for many other reasons than the appellate process. Housing for life the most sadistic of criminals - child murderers, serial killers - is a small price, in my opinion, to pay for us to take the moral high ground and be sure we never again execute an innocent person, as we have done before.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
Re: death penalty
@W--I've heard from others who s your experience with having pets euthanized, but it appears to be the exception rather than the rule. I'm not sure why it occurs, but it can just be that no regimen is foolproof, and a variety of circumstances can make the death less peaceful. but in most cases I would still that a few moments of convulsive jerking, etc. are preferable to the extended suffering that caused you to consider putting your pet down in the first place. But it doesn't make it any easier to witness.
wes--sorry for your dog and cat; it's never easy to lose a pet--they're like members of the family. My own dog just turned 11 and I know I eventually will have to face the same decision for her--hopefully it's a long way in the future, but it's never easy.
BSG--no argument here; but I wouldn't be surprised if an American manufacturer steps in to make the drugs (especially now with some states legalizing the right to obtain such drugs for terminally ill patients). Eventually we'll get rid of the death penalty, but I doubt it will happen in my lifetime.
wes--sorry for your dog and cat; it's never easy to lose a pet--they're like members of the family. My own dog just turned 11 and I know I eventually will have to face the same decision for her--hopefully it's a long way in the future, but it's never easy.
BSG--no argument here; but I wouldn't be surprised if an American manufacturer steps in to make the drugs (especially now with some states legalizing the right to obtain such drugs for terminally ill patients). Eventually we'll get rid of the death penalty, but I doubt it will happen in my lifetime.