Murder of three little girls

[liberty]

Why is it that these people who are angry over the murder of three little children are right wing thugs and the BLM rioters of a few years ago were virtuous patriots freedom fighters? Is the government of Britain saying that only the right-wing cares about the lives of little white girls? No one else is protesting? If it had been three little black girls who've been murdered there would been hell to pay.

These protesters responding to the murder of three little girls will be suppressed, but left-wing protests will not.

I'm not as right wing as you guys think I am, but I do have a sense of fairness.

The Prime Minister has said he will not allow the far-Right to co-ordinate a “summer of riots” after violence spread across the country over the Southport stabbings.

During a press conference to address the escalating disorder, Sir Keir Starmer was asked whether he was worried that Britain could be facing a “summer of riots”.

Sir Keir answered that the violence was a “coordinated” action by the far-Right, and said that the Government would “ensure this is met with the most robust response in the coming days and weeks”.

The Prime Minister said: “It is obvious to me and obvious to anybody looking in that as far as the far-Right is concerned this is coordinated, this is deliberate, this is not a protest, it is a group of individuals that are absolutely bent on violence.”
He continued: “It’s important to pull together the senior police and law enforcement leaders as we did today to ensure that it is met with the most robust response in the coming days and weeks.”

More than 100 people were arrested in London on Wednesday evening as demonstrations broke out across the country in the aftermath of the Southport stabbings.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Why is it that I'm so silly?

The instigators of riots are being referred to as right-wing extremists because they are right-wing extremists, the majority of the misinformation encouraging riots being from the USA.

Campaign group Hope Not Hate said that the riot in Southport on Tuesday followed a "blizzard of false information around the attack, much of it circulated by far-right accounts online."

The 17-year-old suspect was not initially named due to rules regarding children who are charged with crimes, before a judge then ruled that media could name him as Axel Rudakubana. He turns 18 next week and police have said he was born in Cardiff.

But a claim that the suspect was an asylum seeker or immigrant has been viewed at least 15.7 million times across X, Facebook, Instagram and other platforms, a Reuters analysis showed.

A false claim that he was an undocumented migrant who arrived in a small boat appeared on the website "Channel 3 Now", who later apologised for publishing information that was misleading and not accurate.Internet personality Andrew Tate on Tuesday shared a picture of a man he said was responsible for the attack with the caption "straight off the boat", but the claim was also incorrect as it was a picture of a 51-year-old man arrested for a separate stabbing in Ireland last year.

Separately, a Channel 4 analysis showed that 49% of traffic on social media platform X referencing 'Southport Muslim' - in reference to an unevidenced claim about the attacker's religion - came from the United States, with 30% coming from Britain.

Police have said the incident was not being treated as terror-related, and have urged people not to speculate on details while the investigation continues.

Nigel Farage, leader of the right-wing Reform Party, on Tuesday said he wondered "whether the truth is being withheld from us" as he questioned why the incident wasn't being treated as terror-related and asked if the suspect had been monitored by security services.

After criticism from several people including Starmer's deputy Angela Rayner, accusing Farage of stoking conspiracy theories, Farage said he thought his "gentle questions" were fair and reasonable while adding that the internet had at the same time been awash with unfounded theorie

[Burning Petard]

Seems to me that there has developed a general rule, now that any individual can become an instant online authority, 'fake news' is anything that does not contribute to my own bias confirmation.

I am puzzled by the kinds of things Liberty posts. His overall message seems to be that the news media is suppressing information. How can that be, if he is getting it?

snailgate.

[BoSoxGal]

Why is it that these people who are angry over the murder of three little children are right wing thugs and the BLM rioters of a few years ago were virtuous patriots freedom fighters? Is the government of Britain saying that only the right-wing cares about the lives of little white girls? No one else is protesting? If it had been three little black girls who've been murdered there would been hell to pay.

These protesters responding to the murder of three little girls will be suppressed, but left-wing protests will not.

I'm not as right wing as you guys think I am, but I do have a sense of fairness.

The Prime Minister has said he will not allow the far-Right to co-ordinate a “summer of riots” after violence spread across the country over the Southport stabbings.

During a press conference to address the escalating disorder, Sir Keir Starmer was asked whether he was worried that Britain could be facing a “summer of riots”.

Sir Keir answered that the violence was a “coordinated” action by the far-Right, and said that the Government would “ensure this is met with the most robust response in the coming days and weeks”.

The Prime Minister said: “It is obvious to me and obvious to anybody looking in that as far as the far-Right is concerned this is coordinated, this is deliberate, this is not a protest, it is a group of individuals that are absolutely bent on violence.”
He continued: “It’s important to pull together the senior police and law enforcement leaders as we did today to ensure that it is met with the most robust response in the coming days and weeks.”

More than 100 people were arrested in London on Wednesday evening as demonstrations broke out across the country in the aftermath of the Southport stabbings.

Talk about your apples to oranges comparisons, liberty.

The 2020 marches in response to the extrajudicial killing of George Floyd by an agent of the state (and extending to other extrajudicial killings and also covid pandemic injustices) were largely peaceful - this research has been done exhaustively and the only people still bleating about violent riots are brainwashed right wing faux news consumers such as yourself. https://acleddata.com/2020/09/03/demons ... protesters.

As to the violent and destructive riots that took place in Southport and elsewhere in England following the knife attack that killed three little girls in Southport - this is exactly the same kind of thing that happened in Dublin last November also following a knife attack there on children at a school.

The attacker in Dublin was a citizen of two decades, but a one-time immigrant from Algeria. He was mentally ill. The attacker in Southport is a UK citizen, born in Wales to Rwandan immigrant parents who have been described as 'a lovely couple' by people who know them. Want to place bets on the mental wellness of the attacker?

These rioters are followers of far right wing ideology that stokes hatred against immigrants, especially immigrants of color, across the UK, Europe, USA and even Canada. They are radicalized by online communities and show up to riot because they are messed up people who like to destroy - people, property, themselves. What possible goal do they hope to achieve in burning and destroying property and attacking first responders? There is no legitimacy in their 'protest' precisely because they start from a premise of destruction - it is not an unfortunate behaviour being engaged in by only a small number of these protesters, it is the entire point of their gathering. It is disgusting - it is vile. Imagine to be attacking the very first responders who saved the lives of adults and children attacked in the knife attack they are 'protesting' - what kind of bestial mentality do these people have???

Could you give us some insight, liberty, since you seem to have such sympathy for them?



With regard to immigrants and crime - the data is imperfect because most states, including nation states, with 'immigration problems', actually refuse to collect the statistics.

It is well known that immigrants are more often victims of crime and much of it unreported because of fear of interaction with police authorities.

The one US state which collected statistics on perpetrators, Texas, found undocumented ('illegal') immigrants had a substantially lower crime rate than native born citizens and legal immigrants.

Crime happens because of poverty/greed, lack of opportunity, substance use disorder, mental illness (including personality disorder), lack of social supports. Those factors are universal and apply to lily white criminals like Donald Trump as well as dark complected criminals like, say, Idi Amin. Those factors apply across the human condition and in all advanced cultures.

To suggest that immigrants are somehow more inclined to criminality is idiocy. Humans are inclined to criminality, certain factors at play.

Immigrants grow economies and build nations. There have always been immigrants and always will be. Why can't you and your ilk get over it and turn your energies toward alleviating poverty, creating opportunities, helping those with substance use disorders and other mental health conditions, thereby becoming social supports in your communities? I guess it is just so much more satisfying to your ilk to be self righteous.

[Big RR]

Having worked with immigrants for many years, I concur with what BSG said; most of them are model "citizens", people who work hard, are engaged in their communities, and avoid trouble with the law (often because they don't want to draw attention to themselves (even when victims of crime) since they can be removed. Sure, some are jerks and others mentally ill, but I find many of them to be quite the opposite. The opportunists, manipulators, criminals are much more likely to be home grown. But immigrants are a convenient scapegoat, always have been and always will be (sadly), and a convenient rallying point for those who think they deserve more--even if they are not willing to work for it. Irrational hatred is good politics for asses like Trump and Vance.

[ex-khobar Andy]

The murder of three little girls in Southport has been of course universally condemned - it's another episode of knife crime which to me just shows that if you are bent on murder you will use whatever weapons are to hand but thankfully - and this is of course no comfort to the parents of the three girls and the several others who are still critically ill in hospital - the death count is currently 3 and not 23.

Thanks for the link to the Texas study BSG - I've seen this anecdotally but this is the first time I have read what appears to be a carefully executed piece of research.

[BoSoxGal]

Thanks for the link to the Texas study BSG - I've seen this anecdotally but this is the first time I have read what appears to be a carefully executed piece of research.

Happy to share - I can’t recall where I stumbled on it in my reading, but I’ve bookmarked it for sharing with others whenever this issue raises its ugly head as it too often does.

I do think it is noteworthy that the statistics on offender status are apparently not collected in 49 states and I wonder at the logic behind that. I have become convinced that powers that be in both parties are reluctant to solve our immigration crisis because it is such fruitful ground every electoral cycle - Trump didn’t invent this, the Democrats and Republicans have studiously avoided solutions for my entire lifetime and beyond. Establishing a body of research that finds undocumented immigrants to be more law abiding than any other resident American surely doesn’t fit the narrative.

Coincidentally while drafting the post above this morning I did some research online trying to find these statistics for the UK and found that it appears there is also a dearth of information regarding criminality of immigrants over there too, and I suspect if I bothered to dig deeper I’d find that European countries and Oz and Canada are also studiously avoiding careful collection of this information. Facts are a threat to the narrative, whichever narrative is being pushed by whichever party. So the answer is to muddy the waters by never even trying to root out the facts, I guess.

If someone else has the time or inclination to disprove my assumption I’m happy to be proved wrong.

[Sue U]

I would apply a variant of Hanlon's razor ("never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"): Never attribute to mendacity that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

But here. I'm not even sure it's incompetence. There just hasn't been a need in the criminal justice system to collect that data. Sociology is only now turning attention to the issue, but it does not control the criminal justice protocols for data collection.

[BoSoxGal]

I would apply a variant of Hanlon's razor ("never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"): Never attribute to mendacity that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

But here. I'm not even sure it's incompetence. There just hasn't been a need in the criminal justice system to collect that data. Sociology is only now turning attention to the issue, but it does not control the criminal justice protocols for data collection.

Politicians have stoked fear and the blaming of immigrants for crime since before my paternal great grandparents got off the boat at Ellis Island in the late 1880s. https://siepr.stanford.edu/news/mythica ... -and-crime

Politicians drive policy, including the collection of relevant data to formulate policy. Databases collecting the demographics of offenders have existed for decades - how else to explain the failure to capture such a relevant data point?

The opening of the research piece I linked which tracked statistics in Texas, the only state to collect them, pretty clearly lays out the obstructionist stance being taken by states on this issue. I suspect liberal states out of fear that the numbers might be damaging to their view and conservative states the same.

A lot of people have put a lot of time into thinking about these things in recent decades; I don't buy that it's an oversight.

[ex-khobar Andy]

The automatic 'It must have been a Muslim' reaction in the UK - social media fed - reminded me of the immediate reaction after Timothy McVeigh blew up the Oklahoma City federal building. In the hours afterwards, I recall that the cops were looking for men of Middle Eastern appearance. And I remember telling my cubicle mates that it was domestic right wing terrorism, just based on the target. An international Islamofascist would not see a local federal building as a target while it spells oppression to a very obvious sector of US society.

[Sue U]

Politicians have stoked fear and the blaming of immigrants for crime since before my paternal great grandparents got off the boat at Ellis Island in the late 1880s. https://siepr.stanford.edu/news/mythica ... -and-crime

I don't disagree; the Irish and their Papist ways have been undermining the social cohesion and economic security of True Americans since the 1850s, to say nothing of the Eye-Talians who followed at the turn of the last century..

Politicians drive policy, including the collection of relevant data to formulate policy. Databases collecting the demographics of offenders have existed for decades - how else to explain the failure to capture such a relevant data point?

Criminology wasn't really even a thing until the 1920s and even today it focuses on motivation, deterrence and consequences of criminal acts; unless citizenship status were showing up as a significant variable, why would anyone bother to track it?

The opening of the research piece I linked which tracked statistics in Texas, the only state to collect them, pretty clearly lays out the obstructionist stance being taken by states on this issue. I suspect liberal states out of fear that the numbers might be damaging to their view and conservative states the same.

A lot of people have put a lot of time into thinking about these things in recent decades; I don't buy that it's an oversight.

I think it's the "recent decades" part that's significant, and the fact that research doesn't get done unless there's a researcher who wants to do it and can get the funding to do it. And apart from purely political use, it appears from the little work done to date there is no actual socoiologic let alone practical value to the exercise. I don't have any scientific expertise in the field, but from my experience as a news reporter on the police beat it appears to me that there are numerous categories of crime (intra-familial, gang-related, drug/alcohol-related, economically-motivated, etc.) and among these, random individuals assaulting/murdering strangers on the streets is a pretty tiny class, with the number of "immigrant" perpetrators -- "legal" or not -- being vanishingly small.

[Burning Petard]

"random individuals assaulting/murdering strangers on the streets is a pretty tiny class, with the number of "immigrant" perpetrators -- "legal" or not -- being vanishingly small."

That is precisely why they make such a great political target. Not many votes to lose in that sub-category. The tactic is intended to scare people. If the danger is not very real, ii is really easy to claim after election that you have solved it.

snailgate

[Big RR]

And the false "danger" is also something which can be used to curtail the rights of everyone; damn rights just get in the way of perceived safety.

[liberty]

The consensus seems to be that these protests are racist and the protester don’t have a right to be outraged over the murder of little white girl who would only grow up the be English whores anyway. If the protesters are racist, what about the killer. He is black and he traveled across town to select little white girls to kill. Is he a racist? If the situation had been reversed and the attacker was white the girls killed had been black there would have been an outcry of racism, you know it is true.

[Scooter]

The consensus is certainly that you are a moron.

[MajGenl.Meade]

This is as disgusting a bunch of lying crap as Trump ever managed:

The consensus seems to be that these protests are racist and the protester don’t have a right to be outraged over the murder of little white girl who would only grow up the be English whores anyway.

The consensus (you f-wit) is that right-wing anti-immigrant racists seized the excuse to set fire to other people's property, injuring civilians and police, while chanting anti-immigrant slogans. They don't give a monkey's f*** about those girls - they have a fascist political agenda and are fat white slug bastards

Stick that up your lying a-hole and smoke it

[Sue U]

Geez, Meade, tell us how you really feel; no need to hold back.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Geez, Meade, tell us how you really feel; no need to hold back.

Oh, I don't want to do that . . . . might get a hernia or summat

[liberty]

This is as disgusting a bunch of lying crap as Trump ever managed:

The consensus seems to be that these protests are racist and the protester don’t have a right to be outraged over the murder of little white girl who would only grow up the be English whores anyway.

The consensus (you f-wit) is that right-wing anti-immigrant racists seized the excuse to set fire to other people's property, injuring civilians and police, while chanting anti-immigrant slogans. They don't give a monkey's f*** about those girls - they have a fascist political agenda and are fat white slug bastards

Stick that up your lying a-hole and smoke it

Where is the lie you asshole? If it was left wing thugs burn and destroy that would be justifiable rage. When left burns, it is only property, but if the right does it, somehow, it's important property; some destruction is good, and others is bad, you hypocrite. Your need to be accepted is pathetic; I wouldn't be surprised if one of these days to read that you denounce Christianity as nonsense just so you could be more accepted by your atheist friends here. And as far as these girls growing up to be whores, go to a Muslim country where they feel free to speak and ask a fervent Muslim what they think of women who live outside of Islam. They're in Britain too, but they don't feel free to speak openly in Britain.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Where is the lie you asshole?

Here's the lie you create from thin air and even thinner intellect:

The consensus seems to be that these protests are racist and the protester don’t have a right to be outraged over the murder of little white girl

They are not outraged, and they are not "protesting". They are thugs destroying people's lives and property, assaulting innocent civilians and police for kicks, costing hundreds of thousands of pounds to the British public, and they are fascist scumbag bastards who deserve a good whipping followed by castration and then execution.

You really are void of facts, knowledge and common sense. Your agenda is showing, as usual.