It is just a hobby

[liberty]

It is just a hobby but I am doing what I can to see it happen. I want our association with Puerto Rico to be abolished. I want it give the Puerto Ricans their freedom and I want to invite the Hondurans to join us. After a hundred years or so it is clear they do not want be Americans; they just want the advantages that come with it. They are just afraid to go out on their own, so let’s give them a push out of the door and take the citizenship that we gave the Puerto Rican any way and offer it to the Hondurans. Since they obtained their citizenship by an act of Congress it can be taken away by Congress. However, being a fair nation we would offer them the opportunity to renounce their Puerto Rican citizenship, move to the US and proclaim American citizenship with the provision they do not visit Puerto Rico for twenty years on pain of losing their American citizenship.

I am currently working on a small Honduran forum with a small amount of success, but would like to have more of an impact. Does anyone have any suggestions?

[dales]

[Lord Jim]

Does anyone have any suggestions?

I have a funny feeling that you're really going to regret asking that question, lib...

[liberty]

Nice picture Dale but what does it mean?

[Rick]

Must be a slow day in Monroe...

[liberty]

Does anyone have any suggestions?

I have a funny feeling that you're really going to regret asking that question, lib...

You know me better than that Jim. Do you think I am afraid of anything? Is there something wrong with my idea that I can’t see?

[liberty]

Must be a slow day in Monroe...

Today is a slow day but it could change in heartbeat. And my territory ranges from Haynesville in the northwest of the state to Waterproof in the southeast. Monroe is just our center.

[Liberty1]

Must be a slow day in Monroe...

It's always a slow day in Monroe, or Bastrop, or Ruston, or Minden, or Sibly, or Cotton Valley, or Dixie Inn...........

[liberty]

This is another reason to get out of Puerto Rico:

..SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) — Fifty people have been accused of conspiring to sell the identities of hundreds of Puerto Ricans to illegal immigrants on the U.S. mainland in the largest single fraud case ever for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, authorities said Wednesday.

Hundreds of birth certificates, Social Security numbers and driver's licenses were sold for up to $2,500 a set as part of a black market ring based in Puerto Rico that operated from since at least April 2009, according to ICE Director John Morton.

"The vast majority were legitimate documents obtained by fraudulent or false means," he said.

The alleged ring consisted of suppliers, runners and brokers, who made coded phone calls asking for "skirts" for female customers and "pants" for male customers in specific "sizes", which referred to ages and identities sought, according to ICE.

The documents would be sent through priority or express mail from Puerto Rico to brokers that operated in at least 15 states including Ohio, Texas, Florida and North Carolina, officials said.

Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer said suppliers even allegedly offered to exchange documents if customers were not satisfied, adding that he did not know how much money was made overall.

He said the investigation is still ongoing.

About 80 percent of the documents involved were sold by Puerto Ricans whose names were on them, officials said. Those documents often were then used to apply for a driver's license or a U.S. passport or to commit financial fraud.

Puerto Ricans are often an attractive target because they are U.S. citizens with Hispanic surnames.

Morton said another 20 arrest warrants were issued on Wednesday in separate but similar cases, with 61 of 70 suspects either arrested or whose surrender was arranged.

The investigation began with a tip from police in Illinois, which led to a nearly two-year undercover operation called "Island Express."

"We have gone after everyone involved in the chain: the leaders, the suppliers, the brokers, the runners," Morton said.

In 2010, The Associated Press reported that thousands of Puerto Ricans had become victims of identity fraud in part because the government, schools and other institutions did not secure copies of their birth certificates, which are routinely requested by sports leagues, churches and other groups.

In July 2010, Puerto Rico began annulling all old birth certificates and began issuing new ones with security features to cut down on theft and fraud cases. Morton and Breuer declined to comment on whether the measure has worked.

It is unclear how many new birth certificates have been issued. State Secretary Kenneth McClintock did not respond to requests for comment.

The 50 suspects were indicted by a federal grand jury on Dec. 29 on one charge each of conspiracy to commit identification fraud. If convicted, they face up to 15 years in prison.

___

Alicia A. Caldwell in Washington, D.C., contributed to this report.

..

[Sue U]

After a hundred years or so it is clear they do not want be Americans; they just want the advantages that come with it. They are just afraid to go out on their own

What kind of freaky world do you live in? Your grasp of history and culture extends only as far as your obvious prejudices. Ever since the Spanish-American War, U.S. colonial authorities have brutally crushed every independence movement in Puerto Rico, including a number of atrocious massacres and the imposition of martial law; for years it was actually illegal to even talk about an independent Puerto Rico or display any kind of nationalist symbols. The repression lead directly to a series of terrorist plots, bombings, and political assassination attempts (even one against President Truman).

It is only in the last couple of years that Congress has even considered letting Puerto Ricans vote on independence or continued affiliation with the U.S., and whether any such affiliation would be as a sovereign nation, a state of the United States, or a commonwealth subject to the territorial clause of the Constitution (as it is now). So before you go ignorantly mouthing off about what Puerto Ricans do or don't want, why don't you actually give them a chance to tell you?

ETA:

As for suggestions, why don't you leave those poor Hondurans alone; they've got enough problems already.

[Lord Jim]

It is only in the last couple of years that Congress has even considered letting Puerto Ricans vote on independence or continued affiliation with the U.S., and whether any such affiliation would be as a sovereign nation, a state of the United States, or a commonwealth subject to the territorial clause of the Constitution (as it is now).

Yeah, I guess, so long as you consider 45 years to be "the last couple of years":

1967 The Partido Estadistas Unidos (United Statehooders Party) is founded by Luis A. Ferré, to campaign for statehood in the 1967 plebiscite.

On July 23, first plebiscite on the political status of Puerto Rico is held. Voters overwhelmingly affirm continuation of Commonwealth status.
Commonwealth 60%
Statehood 39%
Independence 1%

1995 In the Referendum, Commonwealth status is reaffirmed by voters.

Statehood.......... 788,296 (46.3%)
Commonwealth....... 826,326 (48.6%)
Independence........ 75,620 ( 4.4%)
Nulls............... 10,748 ( 0.7%)

1998- On December 13, In a non-binding referendum, which offered Puerto Rican voters will have five choices, which included: (1) remaining a U.S. commonwealth, (2) entering into a "free association" with the United States that would be somewhere between commonwealth and independence, (3) becoming a state, (4) declaring independence, and (5) or none of the above. The option 5 "none of the above" obtained the majority of votes.

Option Votes Percent
1 993 0.06%
2 4536 0.29%
3 728157 46.49%
4 39838 2.54%
5 787900 50.30%
Others 4846 0.31%

http://www.topuertorico.org/history6.shtml

The fact of the matter is that at least in modern history, the pro-independence movement in Puerto Rico has received little popular support. In addition to these referendums, polls consistently show independence support in the low single digits, parties supporting independence win few legislative seats, and have never elected a governor.

So a portrait of the contemporary history of Puerto Rico as one of a subject population desperately yearning to be free of the "Yanqui oppressors" would be in a completely antagonistic juxtaposition with the facts.

[rubato]

I agree that it is high time to cut Puerto Rico loose. Tell them that they can either vote to become a state, be US citizens, pay taxes, and we cut off the preferential treatment or they will be independent.

But what nutcase wants to annex Honduras? You're joking.

yrs,
rubato

[liberty]

I agree that it is high time to cut Puerto Rico loose. Tell them that they can either vote to become a state, be US citizens, pay taxes, and we cut off the preferential treatment or they will be independent.

But what nutcase wants to annex Honduras? You're joking.

yrs,
rubato

The nutcase did not say that. All I want it do is give Honduras the opportunity that Puerto Rico has had all these years, no more and no less. And after a trial territorial period elapses and they decide not to go through with the political marriage there be no hard feeling; they would just go their own way like Puerto Rico.
Also I would want Congress to insist on two referendums one for the territory and one for statehood. And both would have to be approved by at least a seventy five percent majority vote of all adult Hondurans.

[Scooter]

And since the Honduran Congress has pretty much fixed it so that the Honduran people will never get a chance to amend their own constitution, I guess you're just sucking air.

[liberty]

Does anyone have a translator handy?
_____________________________________________________________-
Puerto Rico y las Tres Independencias


Cuando se habla de la independencia en PR, realmente hablamos de tres independencias, cada una con características distintas.

* La independencia del PIP, un sistema socialdemócrata al estilo de España o Suecia pero SIN el enorme capital que tienen esas dos naciones.

* La independencia de los Libreasociacionistas: una virtual dictadura nacionalista de derecha al estilo de las repúblicas bananeras de América Central. La Secta de San Patricio finalmente podrá hacer lo que les de la gana sin los molestos impedimentos que les causan las agencias federales como OSHA, EPA, etc; pagar sueldos de hambre y eliminar beneficios a los trabajadores; perseguir a la oposición política impunemente mediante sus periódicos, Hacienda, la Policía y los Tribunales; y encima tener el seguro apoyo del US Army para asegurarse de que JAMÁS les darán un golpe de estado.

* La independencia de los grupúsculos pelús revoltosos: una virtual dictadura populista de izquierda delirante al estilo de Hugo Chávez, moviéndose gradualmente hacia el modelo del gulag Castrista.

Si tuviera que escoger entre esas alternativas, definitivamente escogería la primera, la socialdemócrata... aunque signifique pagar el doble de impuestos de lo que se paga ahora. Quien sabe, a lo mejor de aquí a ese tiempo dejan entrar a PR en la Unión Europea

Sin embargo, me temo que de las tres, la socialdemocracia es el modelo MENOS estable, porque para mantenerse requiere un nivel de cordura y decencia que los PRs en 50+ años de autogobierno no hemos demostrado. Las otras dos, en cambio, tienen padrinos BIEN poderosos que le caerían encima a los socialdemócratas desde ambos lados... además de la ventaja de poder usar los argumentos ideológicos extremistas que tanto apelan al apasionado emocionalismo político del puertorriqueño.

O sea que aunque empecemos bien durante digamos los primeros años con un sistema socialdemócrata, ese centro se erosionará rápidamente y la República terminará dividida, más que ahora, entre las turbas nazionalistas yankifóbicas y las turbas derechistas financiadas por los plutarcas de San Patricio.

And that would really, REALLY suck.

[Timster]

Dang~ Lib went from a backwoods racist to a politically active racist? Pull my teeth and call me gummy!
And with an intellectual bent!?

Fuck me pink! Careful Liberty, your persona is slipping...

[Lord Jim]

I think the "let's boot Puerto Rico and make Honduras a state" proposal is a little, well, odd, but I don't see how it can be fairly construed as "racist"....

If a person wants to end US political ties with one Latin population but make another a state, how is that "racist"?

BTW lib if memory serves me correctly, didn't you bring this Honduras idea up before? If I remember correctly, (and I may not) the reason you came up with Honduras involved a personal connection of some sort....

Personally I have no problem with Puerto Rico retaining it's current status, or becoming a state if it chose to do so. Frankly I have to say though that on my list of current issues that the US needs to be spending it's attentions and energies on, the status of Puerto Rico doesn't make the top 100.

We've got a lot bigger problems to deal with at the moment.

[loCAtek]

Does anyone have a translator handy?

And that would really, REALLY suck.

Puerto Rico and three Independent


When speaking in Puerto Rico's independence, independence really speak of three, each with different characteristics.

* The independence of the PIP, a style social democrat of Spain or Sweden, but without the huge capital with those two nations.

* The independence of Libreasociacionistas: a virtual right-wing nationalist dictatorship style of the banana republics of Central America. The Cult of St. Patrick will finally do what they please without the annoying obstacles that cause federal agencies such as OSHA, EPA, etc., pay starvation wages and eliminate benefits to workers; prosecute political opponents with impunity by their newspapers, Finance, Police and the Courts, and have over insurance support for the U.S. Army to make sure they NEVER give them a coup.

* The independence of lint unruly factions: a virtual dictatorship raving left-wing populist Hugo Chavez style, gradually moving towards the model of Castro gulag.

If I had to choose between these alternatives, definitely choose the former, the social ... even if it means paying double taxes than they pay now. Who knows, maybe from here to the time they let a PR in the European Union

However, I am afraid of the three, the social model is less stable, because to keep requires a level of sanity and decency that PRs in 50 + years of self-government have not shown. The other two, however, nice to have sponsors that will fall over the Social Democrats from both sides ... addition to the advantage of using extremist ideological arguments both passionate appeal to the Puerto Rican political emotionalism.

So let's say if we start well during the early years with a social democratic system, the center quickly erode and eventually dividing the Republic, more than now, among the crowds and mobs nazionale rightist yankifóbicas funded by Plutarch of San Patricio.

[Scooter]

Among other oddities, I am sure that that last bit is meant to be translated as "plutocrats" and not "Plutarch".

Unless right wing elements in PR have some affinity for ancient Greek literature.

[Lord Jim]

The Cult of St. Patrick

What is that?

Just some sort of odd, insulting reference to Irish Catholics?