If You're Not Angry About This - You're Not Paying Attention

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dales
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If You're Not Angry About This - You're Not Paying Attention

Post by dales »

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics ... t=1&f=1001

Is it any wonder that day-to-day WORKING Americans are growing poorer whild those at the top 1% keep getting richer. :arg

He has probably paid an effective federal income tax rate of about 15 percent in recent years, Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney told reporters in South Carolina a short time ago.

Dogged by questions from his GOP opponents about his personal finances and when he will release his income tax returns, the former Massachusetts governor this morning confirmed some of what had long been suspected: Because he gets most of his income from investments, he pays less in taxes than he would if he was paid in wages. The top tax rate for upper income wage earners: 35 percent, as The Washington Post reminds us.

"Asked a press conference what rate he pays, Romney responded, 'What's the effective rate I've been paying? It's probably closer to the 15 percent rate than anything. Because my last 10 years, my income comes overwhelmingly from some investments made in the past, whether ordinary income or earned annually. I got a little bit of income from my book, but I gave that all away. And then I get speakers' fees from time to time, but not very much.' "

His definition of "not very much" may not fit with many Americans.' USA Today examined his financial disclosure forms covering most of 2010 and the start of 2011 adn found that he had earned "more than $362,000 in speaking fees."

Romney's confirmation about his effective tax rate is sure to bring up mentions by his liberal critics of the "Buffett rule." Named for billionaire Warren Buffett (who thinks the very rich should pay more in taxes), it's the observation that those who can classify their income as "carried interest" get taxed at a rate much below the rates paid by many of the less well-off.

As for when he will release his income tax returns, Romney implied last night that he might do so in April. Tuesday morning, The New York Times says, "Mr. Romney said that April's tax season seemed to be the appropriate month for such a disclosure, and that he was following 'tradition' from previous presidential races."

Update at 1:25 p.m. ET. Obama's Rate In 2010:

Now that we've had a minute to check back, we're reminded that President Obama and the first lady paid an effective federal income tax rate of 26.3 percent on their 2010 earnings of about $1.7 million (much of it from book royalties). We wrote last year that:


"The Obama's tax liability gave them an effective federal income tax rate of 26.3 percent. The top tax bracket is 35 percent but they were able to knock that down through $373,289 in itemized deductions.

"Much of those deductions came from the $245,075 the Obama's reported giving to charity, or 14.2 percent of their income. The largest single donation was $131,075 which they gave to Fisher House Foundation."

Also, Vice President Biden and his wife Jill had "gross income of $379,178 with $67,038 in itemized deductions. Their tax liability was $86,626, giving the Bidens a 22.8 percent effective federal income tax rate."

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


yrs,
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Liberty1
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Re: If You're Not Angry About This - You're Not Paying Atten

Post by Liberty1 »

I'm paying attention, but not pissed off. Good for him.
Everyone should pay as little tax as possible.
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain

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BoSoxGal
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Re: If You're Not Angry About This - You're Not Paying Atten

Post by BoSoxGal »

If the citizens of this country choose to elect another silver spoon Republican who is totally out of touch with the way the vast majority of the people live, just because the current President hasn't been able in just three years to fix all the problems created by the last silver spoon Republican who was totally out of touch with the way the vast majority of the people lived, then they will get what they deserve.

I'm working on my ex-pat game plan.
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Jarlaxle
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Re: If You're Not Angry About This - You're Not Paying Atten

Post by Jarlaxle »

Liberty1 wrote:I'm paying attention, but not pissed off. Good for him.
Everyone should pay as little tax as possible.
^^^
That.
Treat Gaza like Carthage.

rubato
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Re: If You're Not Angry About This - You're Not Paying Atten

Post by rubato »

"As little tax as possible" is Zero.

And at that rate we no society worth living in.

yrs,
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dgs49
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Re: If You're Not Angry About This - You're Not Paying Atten

Post by dgs49 »

Again I say, we do not pay taxes in percentages, we pay them in dollars.

To make a fraction comprised of the federal income taxes paid as the numerator and total income as the denominator provides information having almost no value. Indeed, the said fraction, when calculated for about half of Americans, would be approximately equal to ZERO. Does that make those people worthless?

To the extent that any taxpayer - individual or corporate - is able to find and exploit exemptions, exclusions, credits, and deductions, THEY ARE DOING WHAT CONGRESS DESIRED WHEN THOSE PROVISIONS WERE WRITTEN INTO THE LAW. Accelerated depreciation provides a benefit to society, as it encourages construction and investment, which promotes prosperity. Charitable deductions work to everyone's benefit, because if charities did not exist there would be a lot more misery about, and government (i.e., the taxpayer) would oftentimes have to take up the slack. Each and every provision to be taken advantage of in the Code reflects the judgment of Congress in promoting a desirable end.

How sad it is that the incumbent President intends to base his re-election campaign on...envy. He certainly can't run on his accomplishments.

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Re: If You're Not Angry About This - You're Not Paying Atten

Post by dgs49 »

Anyone paying more than a quarter million in Federal Income Tax is paying ENOUGH.

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Re: If You're Not Angry About This - You're Not Paying Atten

Post by Econoline »

dgs49 wrote:Anyone paying more than a quarter million in Federal Income Tax is paying ENOUGH.
Likewise, anyone who has more than a quarter million to live on after taxes has ENOUGH to live quite comfortably.

What matters most is what you have left as disposable income, not what you pay out in taxes.
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Liberty1
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Re: If You're Not Angry About This - You're Not Paying Atten

Post by Liberty1 »

Likewise, anyone who has more than a quarter million to live on after taxes has ENOUGH to live quite comfortably.

What matters most is what you have left as disposable income, not what you pay out in taxes.
This is none of anyone's business but their own.

What is important is what you pay out in taxes.
To make a fraction comprised of the federal income taxes paid as the numerator and total income as the denominator provides information having almost no value
Two things should happen to get this country under control.

1) Take the amount of taxes required to fund the government and divide by the number of residents = individual tax bill.

2) Stop taxes from being a payroll deduction and make people actually write out a check.

Do these two things to show that government comes at a big cost and this country would turn around in a second.
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain

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Econoline
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Re: If You're Not Angry About This - You're Not Paying Atten

Post by Econoline »

Liberty1 wrote:What is important is what you pay out in taxes.
Well, personally, I would MUCH rather pay a million in taxes and have a million left over to spend than pay a thousand in taxes and have twenty thousand left over to spend...but I guess that's just me....YMMV.... :shrug



(ETA: if what's most important to you is what you pay in taxes, it's REAL easy to pay hardly any, because in this economy it's REAL easy to not earn very much money.)
Last edited by Econoline on Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

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Rick
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Re: If You're Not Angry About This - You're Not Paying Atten

Post by Rick »

You have 20 left over?

I'm getting ripped off...
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is

Liberty1
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Re: If You're Not Angry About This - You're Not Paying Atten

Post by Liberty1 »

Well, personally, I would MUCH rather pay a million in taxes and have a million left over to spend than pay a thousand in taxes and have twenty thousand left over to spend...but I guess that's just me..
Me too, but this is not fair or moral.

Taking the fruits of someones labor or life, in order to provide benefit to someone else, is generally called slavery.
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain

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Rick
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Re: If You're Not Angry About This - You're Not Paying Atten

Post by Rick »

Expecting NOT to be taxed is naiveté...
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is

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BoSoxGal
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Re: If You're Not Angry About This - You're Not Paying Atten

Post by BoSoxGal »

Liberty1 wrote:Taking the fruits of someones labor or life, in order to provide benefit to someone else, is generally called slavery.
No, it's called the social contract, and the benefits aren't for 'someone else', they are for all of us, when we need them. When your house is on fire, the fire department comes. When you are the victim of crime, the police and prosecution come. When you are charged with a crime, if you can't afford a lawyer, one is appointed to you. When you become unemployed through no fault of your own, you should be eligible for UE benefits. When you are destitute, you (and your children) should be eligible for public benefits. When you need to drive from point A to point B, there should be safe roadways and bridges available to get you there. When you need to be educated as a productive member of society, there should be decent K-12 education available to you at no cost.

These things promote the general welfare, and they are provided for in the Constitution, with the power to levy taxes to ensure their provision.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

Liberty1
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Re: If You're Not Angry About This - You're Not Paying Atten

Post by Liberty1 »

I fully expect to be taxed, at least for Constitutionally mandated and allowed services.

But,forcing one person to pay for another persons share is exactly the opposite of fairness.
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain

Liberty1
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Re: If You're Not Angry About This - You're Not Paying Atten

Post by Liberty1 »

When your house is on fire, the fire department comes. When you are the victim of crime, the police and prosecution come. When you are charged with a crime, if you can't afford a lawyer, one is appointed to you
These are all benefits I would argue are valid, and provide equal benefits to everyone.
When you become unemployed through no fault of your own, you should be eligible for UE benefits
Only if you've paid into them, as I have done continuosly for 27 years, which is I believe how it works.
When you are destitute, you (and your children) should be eligible for public benefits.
Generally agreed.
there should be safe roadways and bridges available to get you there
Again, a valid use for government. But you might want to tell all those states back east with toll roads, that's not an equal benefit.
When you need to be educated as a productive member of society, there should be decent K-12 education available to you at no cost.
If it was decent, I would maybe agree.
These things promote the general welfare, and they are provided for in the Constitution, with the power to levy taxes to ensure their provision
Again generallly I agree. How it is taxed is the farthest thing from fair.
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain

Grim Reaper
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Re: If You're Not Angry About This - You're Not Paying Atten

Post by Grim Reaper »

dgs49 wrote:Again I say, we do not pay taxes in percentages, we pay them in dollars.
Which is utter nonsense and a pretty pathetic attempt at restructuring the argument.

How much of a percentage of our income goes to taxes is the only relevant factor that can possibly be considered.

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dales
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Re: If You're Not Angry About This - You're Not Paying Atten

Post by dales »

I believe those that b!tch about high taxes move to Somolia. :mrgreen:

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


yrs,
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