Don't let the door hit you in the ass

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Rick
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Re: Don't let the door hit you in the ass

Post by Rick »

Big RR quick question, not trying to get bogged down in the other mess.
2. Because the federal government has a right to generally regulate drugs to promote the general welfare; marijuana is a drug within this context, while alcohol (and tobacco for that matter) is not.
They regulate them through the FDA yet I don't see any FDA intervention. Why?
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is

Andrew D
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Re: Don't let the door hit you in the ass

Post by Andrew D »

I'm not Big RR, but in 2000, the Supreme Court held that the FDA does not have the authority to regulate tobacco.

Importantly, the Supreme Court did not hold that Congress cannot authorize the FDA to regulate tobacco. Rather, it held that Congress had not authorized the FDA to regulate tobacco.

There is a concise article on the subject here.
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.

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Rick
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Re: Don't let the door hit you in the ass

Post by Rick »

Thanks Andrew, however I was actually inquiring about Hooter.

But since you brought it to the fore do you think hooter will follow suit and fall under ATF rather than FDA?
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is

dgs49
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Re: Don't let the door hit you in the ass

Post by dgs49 »

The difference between the presence and absence of the word "expressly" in the phrase, "the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution," is one of nuance, not essence. The meaning of the Amendment remains basically the same.

Andrew (and today's "living document" crowd) would have us believe that the omission of the word, "expressly" renders the Tenth Amendment little more than commentary. But this is nonsense.

To anyone who can read the English language, it is abundantly clear that the powers granted to the Congress in Article 1 do NOT include, for example, establishing a mandatory retirement plan for all Americans, or funding a network of radio and television stations, or demanding that healthy, young Americans purchase unnecessary health insurance, under penalty of law.

The decision NOT to include the word "expressly" merely results in the expansion of the delegated powers to include those related powers that are logically inferrable from the specific powers that are delegated. For example, the powers to, "...raise and support Armies [and] to provide and maintain a Navy,..." also encompass the power to create and fund the Air Force (which was originally part of the Army).

But from which among the eighteen delegated powers does the power to create "Obamacare" come from? The answer is NONE of them.

And with all of Andrew's blather posted above, he has not even hinted at how such a power can be created for Congress out of the raw material provided in Article 1. Andrew simply claims that the Tenth Amendment doesn't mean what it sure as hell appears to mean, and from there, he concludes that Congress can do whatever the fuck it wants to do, with no constraints whatsoever.

Because the Tenth Amendment doesn't say, "expressly."

Baloney.

Andrew D
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Re: Don't let the door hit you in the ass

Post by Andrew D »

keld feldspar wrote:Thanks Andrew, however I was actually inquiring about Hooter.

But since you brought it to the fore do you think hooter will follow suit and fall under ATF rather than FDA?
The US government regulates marijuana under the Controlled Substances Act, which is Title II of the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act.
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.

Andrew D
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Re: Don't let the door hit you in the ass

Post by Andrew D »

But from which among the eighteen delegated powers does the power to create "Obamacare" come from?
Perhaps dgs49 should ask the right-wing Bush-II-appointed Chief Justice who authored the portion of the opinion which upholds the individual mandate.
The answer is NONE of them.
According to dgs49. But according to the right-wing Bush-II-appointed Chief Justice who authored the portion of the opinion which upholds the individual mandate, it is Congress's taxing power.
Andrew (and today's "living document" crowd) would have us believe that the omission of the word, "expressly" renders the Tenth Amendment little more than commentary.
That is not what I have written, which dgs49 knows perfectly well.
Andrew ... concludes that Congress can do whatever the fuck it wants to do, with no constraints whatsoever.
That is not what I have written, which dgs49 knows perfectly well.
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.

Andrew D
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Re: Don't let the door hit you in the ass

Post by Andrew D »

Now that dgs49 has abandoned even the pretense of intellectual honesty, I see no reason to continue this caricature of a debate.

I can only hope that the adults in the room have found at least some of what I have written to be at least somewhat informative.
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.

Grim Reaper
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Re: Don't let the door hit you in the ass

Post by Grim Reaper »

dgs49 wrote: The difference between the presence and absence of the word "expressly" in the phrase, "the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution," is one of nuance, not essence. The meaning of the Amendment remains basically the same.
If the meaning is the same, then explain why you would bother trying to put it in there?

Which leads to the conclusion that the meaning is not the same. Otherwise you wouldn't have lied about the content of the amendment by adding a word to it.

dgs49
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Re: Don't let the door hit you in the ass

Post by dgs49 »

Andrew, you festering sack of shit,

I have challenged you several times in this thread to describe how Article 1 of the Constitution authorizes Congress to (among many other things) create a compulsory retirement program. I maintain that it does not.

There is nothing included in your thousands of words of painful obfuscation that even approaches a response. You merely claim, in effect, that the path from Point A to Point B need not be a straight line. It is not a complex question, and involves nothing more than the interpretation of a couple of phrases that are not particularly esoteric or complicated. You have provided nothing but intelligent-sounding nonsense.

I have set forth a clear and concise explication of the Tenth Amendment (not that it needs one), and you have gone on interminably about what it does NOT mean. So what?

So you have apparently adopted the coward's way out of an ignominious defeat: you declare victory and withdraw.

It is no wonder you have no friends.

Grim Reaper
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Re: Don't let the door hit you in the ass

Post by Grim Reaper »

dgs49 wrote: Andrew, you festering sack of shit,
Again, dgs49 shows his mental fortitude with a compelling argument that succinctly proves his point.

What you have done is lie about the contents of the 10th amendment. You put in "expressly", which you say doesn't mean anything. But the only reason for you to even put it in there in the first place is if you do think it means something.
dgs49 wrote:So you have apparently adopted the coward's way out of an ignominious defeat: you declare victory and withdraw.
Says the person who had to lie about what the 10th amendment actually says in order to have an argument to begin with.

Andrew D
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Re: Don't let the door hit you in the ass

Post by Andrew D »

This is not an argument in support of any position; it is merely an observation.

I cannot begin to fathom how strange it must be to live in dgs49's alternative reality:
dgs49 wrote:I have challenged you several times in this thread to describe how Article 1 of the Constitution authorizes Congress to (among many other things) create a compulsory retirement program.
I do not see several such challenges. I do not see even one such challenge. No such challenge appears among dgs49's five questions. I see one passing reference to a compulsory retirement program:
To anyone who can read the English language, it is abundantly clear that the powers granted to the Congress in Article 1 do NOT include, for example, establishing a mandatory retirement plan for all Americans, or funding a network of radio and television stations, or demanding that healthy, young Americans purchase unnecessary health insurance, under penalty of law.
If anyone here can find where dgs49 has "challenged [me] several times in this thread how Article 1 [sic] of the Constitution authorizes Congress to (among many other things) create [sic] a compulsory retirement program," please bring those challenges to my attention.

Thanks.
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.

Andrew D
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Re: Don't let the door hit you in the ass

Post by Andrew D »

liberty wrote:What are the things that the federal government can’t do and only the states can?
It is impossible to list them all. It may be useful, however, to elucidate two categories of powers which the States have, and the US government does not.

First, there are matters of how a State chooses to run itself. The US government has no power to create local governments within a State. It has no power to divide one county into two or to combine two counties into one. It has no power to decide whether a State's governor or legislators shall or shall not be term-limited. It has no power to decide whether a State shall or shall not impose a sales tax. Etc.

Second, there are powers which, although they deal with the same subject matter as do the powers of the US government, lie beyond the scope of the powers of the US government. For example, the US government has the power to lay and collect taxes to provide for the general welfare of the US. That power is limited by the qualification that the welfare for which the taxes are laid and collected must be general, not merely local. A State, on the other hand, have the power to lay and collect taxes to provide for the local welfare of any portion of that State, regardless of whether those taxes also provide for the welfare of any other portion of that State. In other words, States can lay and collect taxes to provide for some merely local welfare, whereas the US government cannot.

Another such power is the power to enforce criminal laws. The US government and the States both have the power to prosecute criminals. But ordinarily, if one person murders another person within a State, the US government cannot prosecute that person for murder. For the US government to prosecute that person, there must be some "jurisdictional hook" which brings the powers of the US government into play. There are many such jurisdictional hooks: The murder could be of a federal officer, it could take place on federal land, it could occur during the commission of a federal crime, etc. But the point is that the US government needs such a jurisdictional hook, whereas a State does not: A State can prosecute someone for a crime simply on the basis that the crime occurred within that State, but the US government cannot prosecute someone for a crime simply on the basis that the crime occurred within the US.
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.

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Guinevere
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Re: Don't let the door hit you in the ass

Post by Guinevere »

Marking
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