Assault weapon ban.

[Guinevere]

I want legislation that bans certain guns based on their capacity for rapid fire, and all that meet that criteria or greater are unavailable to civilians. Same with magazine size - above a certain capacity, unavailable to civilians.

I've asked several gun advocate threads to explain the need for these kinds of weapons and so far, crickets ....

[dales]

"Based of their capacity for rapid fire."

Meaning?

How fast the trigger can be depressed?

[Lord Jim]

It's a pain in the @ss having to replenish a magazine after 30 rounds, a drum magazine with a 100 rounds is so much more convenient.

Less change of breaking a nail.

Well, we can't have that...

[Guinevere]

"Based of their capacity for rapid fire."

Meaning?

How fast the trigger can be depressed?

Rounds fired per second.

The point is I don't want to name them "autos" or "semi autos" and get I to that semantics argument. I don't am want to list specific models, either, because that becomes outdated legislation quickly. I want them regulated based on capacity to harm - and yes I realize one shot can do incredible harm but that isn't the point.

[Lord Jim]

You could[*] bring down a Mastadon or a Smilodon with 10 rounds...

ETA:

*Edited to say "could" not "couldn't"....mistake on my part...kind of undermined my whole point...

[Guinevere]

When you see a rampaging mastodon, LJ, assaulting little kids, you let us know.













We will send Gob and the men in white costs to come get you ......

[Lord Jim]

The point is I don't want to name them "autos" or "semi autos" and get I to that semantics argument. I don't am want to list specific models, either, because that becomes outdated legislation quickly. I want them regulated based on capacity to harm

I think that's why the magazine or clip size is the key...

No matter how many ways you restructure or redefine the definition of a gun or rifle, if you limit the number of shots in a clip or magazine, that isn't going to change....it's eight bullets, or ten bullets....it's not rocket science....

[Lord Jim]

You could[*] bring down a Mastadon or a Smilodon with 10 rounds...

ETA:

*Edited to say "could" not "couldn't"....mistake on my part...kind of undermined my whole point...

When you see a rampaging mastodon, LJ, assaulting little kids, you let us know.

The point I was trying to make, (which I undermined by saying "couldn't" rather than "could"...an unfortunate mistake; which basically reversed the whole meaning of what I intended to say) is that large ammo clips will do nothing to enhance personal self defense.

What I was trying to say by way of analogy, is that even large Ice Age Era animals like mastodons and smilodons could be brought down by clips with 10 bullets...

Unfortunately, I pretty much wound up giving the impression that I wanted to make the exact opposite point of the one that I intended to make, and I guess I'll just have to live with that....

Won't be the first time...

[Jarlaxle]

I can do a mag swap in one second in every magazine-fed semiautomatic I have ever tried it in.

The larger mags are a novelty, especially for a pistol: they are awkward, heavy, and tend to tie up before even half the rounds are fired. Once you go past 15 rounds, the spring pressure needed to feed them becomes excessive on a pistol.

[Rick]

How bout:

ALL rifles must be top loaders and may not be able to load with stripper clips (how they loaded M1s in WWII), or be fed by a nonextendable tube magazine, or be breach loaded. This becomes extremely important in the coice of ammuntion one uses, we could also ban hardball ammo (FMJ) in these rifles by construction 5.56 in a standard rifle will over pressure and increase the likelyhood of breach failure, 7.76 is actually slightly longer than a standard .308 round. As for tube mags Hornaday has come out with a spire point round capable of being loaded in these guns but the only one I've seen on a regular basis is the 30/30, they do not sell these as reload componenets.

ALL shotguns may not hold more than 3 rounds including 1 in the chamber regardless of shell length (federal duck hunting regulations only allow 3 rounds).

ALL pistols may not hold more than 6 rounds and must be single action (yes autos can be single action, not quite as slow as revolvers but still a hinderance).

[liberty]

lib, there are times that I feel that you are being made to look a fool by Scooter or Grim...

And I think it's unfair....

This is not one of them....

Ok Jim, I like and respect you and always have, but just because you have the talent to make money that other don’t have, does that make your life more valuable than others. Now come on answer the question, you started it. Come on now be objective, separate yourself from the question and use some of that Mr. Spock logic you admire; you can do it:

If the lower classes are not allowed to protect themselves should the rich be allowed to hire armed guards, are some people more important than others?

[Rick]

Lib I really think it's a case of apples and oranges.

You brought Pineapples.

Hey, I do it all the time...

[MajGenl.Meade]

I don't know if it was said here earlier but I understand there are some advocates of large magazine/auto weaponry on the grounds that the potential enemy is the Gubmint and why should the Gubmint be better armed? This of course kind of ignores helicopter gunships, tanks, missiles and so on. Or perhaps it's the Russian/Chinese invasion or Martians that will require a citizenry to be so well-equipped with rapid-fire hardware.

I'm a strong 2Am kind of guy and I believe that whether a gun fires from a 30round mag or a 10round one makes little actual difference in the scenarios of closed school rooms, unarmed teachers and frightened kids. A practised (and perhaps not all are - this last one maybe not) shooter can fire 30 rounds from 3 x 10rounders almost as easily as from a 30 clip and perhaps with less difficulty. I am not sure but this last maniac doesn't seem to have done his major damage by spraying rounds aimlessly but taking his time to shoot carefully - else the ratio of wounded/killed would be vastly different. I stand, sit down and lay around to be corrected on that.

Regardless - if it makes people feel better that in future 16 kids might/perhaps/maybe get shot instead of 26, then let's ban high capactiy magazines. Gun nuts can probably fabricate them at home but most of these shooters seem to be just nuts.

As to semi-automatic weapons, I think they should be permitted to anyone who joins the official State Militia and receives training on a regular basis as well as attends for years and years the necessary manouevers, drill and all other things needed to create a real Militia subject to the orders of State officers.

Meade

[Rick]

I don't know if it was said here earlier but I understand there are some advocates of large magazine/auto weaponry on the grounds that the potential enemy is the Gubmint and why should the Gubmint be better armed? This of course kind of ignores helicopter gunships, tanks, missiles and so on. Or perhaps it's the Russian/Chinese invasion or Martians that will require a citizenry to be so well-equipped with rapid-fire hardware.

Andy (not Andrew) brought that stuff up all the time...

[Lord Jim]

I don't know if it was said here earlier but I understand there are some advocates of large magazine/auto weaponry on the grounds that the potential enemy is the Gubmint and why should the Gubmint be better armed? This of course kind of ignores helicopter gunships, tanks, missiles and so on.

I addressed this in the other thread:

Unless you believe that the government is suddenly and without legitimate cause going to descend on your home in battalion strength, (and if you believe that you probably should be denied the right to own a gun on mental illness grounds....I know an electrician in Vermont you can bunk in with...) there is absolutely no legitimate justification for it.

And even in that situation, a 100 round magazine, or even multiple 100 round magazines, won't protect you....(See Koresh, David...the government has tanks, planes, missiles...if they're determined to get you, you're going to get got....you can't "hold out"...no matter how much ammunition you have, trust me on this; the government has more)

[MajGenl.Meade]

I should have known I wasn't the only smart person around. . .

[Rick]

Yeah but if you use that logic as your rationale then we should never buy bread, after all it will get moldy.

and everyone goes ho hum...

[Andrew D]

Reloading a typical semi-automatic firearm generally requires pressing a button (or flicking a switch), allowing the empty magazine to fall out, slamming in a new magazine, and retracting the slide to put the first round of the new magazine into the chamber. With only a little practice, one can do that in less than 2 seconds.

Yeah, If you're an Army Ranger Sniper, or a professional MI-6 assassin...

Your average high school kid will not be that proficient....

One need not be a sniper or an assassin to accomplish a simple thing. (And snipers don't do a lot of mid-incident reloading; OSOK -- one shot, one kill -- is an informal motto of snipers everywhere.)

And Lanza was not an "average high school kid". He was an adult (20 years old) who had spent time at the firing range (with his mother).

When I was amusing myself with target shooting -- which was a long time ago, so I am way out of practice now -- it took me about ten minutes to get the hang of changing magazines in less than two seconds. See also what Jarlaxle, whom I have no reason to believe is an Army Ranger sniper or a professional MI-6 assassin, posted above:

I can do a mag swap in one second in every magazine-fed semiautomatic I have ever tried it in.

Even if had taken Lanza five seconds (which is an extraordinarily long time) to reload, what difference would that have made in Newtown? Or in Aurora? Or at Columbine?

The fact of the matter remains that banning large-capacity magazines -- not that I have anything against doing so -- is unlikely to change the outcome of a mass slaughter in a school or in a church or even from a water tower.

[liberty]

.

As to semi-automatic weapons, I think they should be permitted to anyone who joins the official State Militia and receives training on a regular basis as well as attends for years and years the necessary manouevers, drill and all other things needed to create a real Militia subject to the orders of State officers.

Meade

I love you brother Meade even if you are Yankee, but what you describe is not a militia; but a military. A militia is a voluntary civilian organization that in our country has historically elected their unit leaders. Abraham Lincoln was elected captain of his unit. Any organization that elects it leaders is not military. Also a militia is community organization not state although it is under the authority of the state and be disbanded by the states for cause. I believe that it is one of the powers referred to in the 10 amendment that are reserved to the people.

Also it was the governments of Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia that killed (murdered) millions of their own people. Any government is only two or three steps from fascist; it is just the nature of government. Look the number of innocent people in our prisons. I am sure there are all kinds of unreported atrocities that happen in our country every year. And no I do not in favor anarchy. What can be done about it? Our founders have already have done all that can be done; just keep the safe guards they gave us.

It would not mean the end of the second amendment if the so called Assault weapons were banned, if it stopped there.

[dgs49]

Tangent:

How many Americans are killed by people traveling, let's say, faster than 80 mph?

Can anyone explain why there is a legitimate NEED for a car to go faster than 75mph?

Why not put governors on all cars?

Same logic. No need. Potential harm.

Just because a single speeding bastard does not customarily kill a dozen or more people, you can't ignore the overall carnage. 28 people killed individually in 28 different states is no less a tragedy than 28 people killed in one place.

Or have we forgotten that?