Results: the fiscal cliff deal

[liberty]

I happen to see a news segment on the outcome of the fiscal cliff deal. Basically it said nothing was solved by the deal. The money raised by taxing the wealthy was then passed on to certain liberal concerns. It did nothing to effect the deficient let alone the debt. Other than our foreign friends, would this surprise anyone if it turns out to be true? And, Gob you wonder why we are not willing to entrust them with our souls. If they keep this stuff up our system has got to collapse, it can’t go on forever. I don’t know about you all, but I don’t want to live in a country of little match girls and workhouses.

[oldr_n_wsr]

I just got my first paycheck of the new year (4 days in the new year), and by my calculation, hte feds took about 2% more in taxes. Now between my wife and myself we are well below the $250,000 that Obama talked about raising but not raising taxes on middle income families (of which I thought I was). So someone is lieing about not raising taxes on us making less (much less) than $250,000 (less than half that).

And still the national debt goes up.

Go figure.

[Econoline]

Just to clarify...the payroll tax cut was always supposed to be a temporary measure, to act as an economic stimulus (to increase the money available for consumer spending). Do I read you right, oldr, are you saying that the government should never enact a temporary tax cut for any reason--that if we can't afford to make a cut permanent, we shouldn't enact a cut at all, not even as an economic stimulus?

(I'm guessing that you're probably not saying that the Social Security system is overfunded and should be collecting less money going forward, right?)

[liberty]

:]temporary[/i] measure, to act as an economic stimulus (to increase the money available for consumer spending). Do I read you right, oldr, are you saying that the government should never enact a temporary tax cut for any reason--that if we can't afford to make a cut permanent, we shouldn't enact a cut at all, not even as an economic stimulus?

Stimulate whose economy I don’t think it will be ours unless you plan on buying a lot of bull dozers or corn otherwise you will need to go to China. Of course fracking could change all that unless a certain segment of our society succeed in sabotaging it.

[Scooter]

How about frivolous things like, uh, food, shelter, transportation? Do those count, bag boy?

[liberty]

How about frivolous things like, uh, food, shelter, transportation? Do those count, bag boy?

Not enough and a lot of the construction (transportation) is done by illegal aliens that send their money home to Mexico. Money doesn’t stimulate the economy unless it stays and circulates in the economy. And what is wrong with bag boys, janitors, plumbers or even the retarded or as far as that goes any of the other number of people that you look down on.

[Scooter]

How about frivolous things like, uh, food, shelter, transportation? Do those count, bag boy?

Not enough

So people shouldn't have been allowed to use that social security tax cut to feed their families and put a roof over their heads? Nice.

and a lot of the construction (transportation) is done by illegal aliens that send their money home to Mexico

Illegal aliens build cars? Illegal aliens own gas stations? Illegal aliens drive buses, trains and subways? How much more of an idiot do you plan on showing yourself to be?

And what is wrong with bag boys, janitors, plumbers or even the retarded or as far as that goes any of the other number of people that you look down on.

I look down on idiots, a group of which you have amply demonstrated yourself to be a member.

[liberty]

[quote="Scooter

And what is wrong with bag boys, janitors, plumbers or even the retarded or as far as that goes any of the other number of people that you look down on.

I look down on idiots, a group of which you have amply demonstrated yourself to be a member.[/quote][/quote]

1usually offensive : a person affected with extreme mental retardation.

Really, I don’t think having an opinion that you don’t like qualifies.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Just to clarify...the payroll tax cut was always supposed to be a temporary measure, to act as an economic stimulus (to increase the money available for consumer spending). Do I read you right, oldr, are you saying that the government should never enact a temporary tax cut for any reason--that if we can't afford to make a cut permanent, we shouldn't enact a cut at all, not even as an economic stimulus?

(I'm guessing that you're probably not saying that the Social Security system is overfunded and should be collecting less money going forward, right?)

Temporary or not, the politicians said they were not raising taxes on the middle class. I was paying X in taxes in December, now I am paying X+2% in taxes. And that wasn't a soc sec tax raise, that was what? a payroll tax. Less money in my pocket means less to spend (or save). That's no way to stimulate the economy. I make well south of $200,000

[Scooter]

And what is wrong with bag boys, janitors, plumbers or even the retarded or as far as that goes any of the other number of people that you look down on.

I look down on idiots, a group of which you have amply demonstrated yourself to be a member.

1usually offensive : a person affected with extreme mental retardation.

Really, I don’t think having an opinion that you don’t like qualifies.

id·i·ot [id-ee-uh t]
noun
1.
Informal. an utterly foolish or senseless person.

A definition that fits you like a glove. Because having the opinions of a jackass certainly does qualify.

Try again, moron. Oh, and if you're going to pretend to be a linguistics expert again:

mo·ron [mawr-on, mohr-]
noun
1.
Informal. a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment.

Once again, a definition your picture could appear next to in the dictionary.

[Econoline]

I was paying X in taxes in December, now I am paying X+2% in taxes. And that wasn't a soc sec tax raise, that was what? a payroll tax. Less money in my pocket means less to spend (or save). That's no way to stimulate the economy. I make well south of $200,000

The payroll tax is not the same as the income tax. And by making the reduction temporary, Congress specifically did NOT say that it wasn't going to rise; in fact, by making it temporary they explicitly DID say that it was going back up when the "tax holiday" was over.

From The Tax Foundation:

What is the payroll tax?
Appearing on many paystubs as FICA, Med-FICA, OASDI, Social Security, or Medicare, most Americans have 6.2 percent of their paychecks withheld to fund Social Security (payments to retired and disabled individuals) and another 1.45 percent withheld to fund Medicare (health care for the elderly), for a combined 7.65 percent. Employers also contribute an additional 7.65 percent. Together, these taxes raise nearly $1 trillion per year.
What was the payroll tax holiday?
The payroll tax holiday was enacted in 2011, which reduced the employee share of the Social Security payroll tax from 6.2 percent to 4.2 percent. The holiday was not renewed when it expired at the end of 2012.
Why did the payroll tax holiday expire?
The payroll tax holiday proved popular with taxpayers but costly, reducing federal revenues by some $10 billion per month. U.S. payroll taxes also fund some of our largest entitlement programs, so reducing them potentially aggravated the long-term solvency of Social Security. Proponents of the holiday argued that it boosted spending; experts continue to debate the effect on the economy of such short-term stimulus proposals. Proponents also stated that the federal government would make up Social Security’s lost revenue, although the federal government has no budget surplus to do so. The holiday therefore meant larger federal government borrowing, at a time of record deficits.

[Econoline]

More (from Forbes.com) on the end of the payroll tax holiday.

("Dear America: Your Higher Payroll Taxes Are Not The Result Of A Tax Increase")

[Long Run]

Econo, it is semantics. For the typical person, their taxes went up 2% after a couple of years at a lower level. I don't think this violated either Obama's pledge to not raise taxes on the middle class, or the Republicans' pledge to not raise taxes, since they didn't do anything but let the temporary law expire as it was due to. However, I can understand why some people think it does.

There have been plenty of temporary tax measures that keep getting renewed every year. At some point, not renewing such a "temporary" measure should in fact be considered a tax increase. People legitimately get used a taxes at a certain level, or a certain tax break, and then it is taken away; it makes little difference if the change is caused from not renewing a law that has been renewed for years on end, or if the law is affirmatively changed.

[liberty]

The fiscal cliff was supposed to be a way to deal with the deficient and the debt, but instead nothing was done. What is wrong with Obama does he care? Does he want the economy of the US to collapse? Instead of blaming the Republican he should get serious: We all are going to have to pay more taxes and there can be no earned income tax credit. And we need to stop all foreign aid if for no other reason than to signal the American people that things have changed. There are things we have to do: We have to defend country, we have to take care OF THE HELPLESS and meet our financial obligations. All other things such as the US department of education and support for the arts are expendable and should be eliminated.

I am beginning to think the Republicans were right; we should have gone over the cliff.

Is it even possible to raise enough taxes from the rich at a rate they will tolerate to pay off the national debt or even to eliminate the deficit?

[Crackpot]

It hasn't been Obama who keeps walking from the table

[oldr_n_wsr]

Any time my taxes go down, it's a lessening of my taxes. Any time my taxes go up it is a raise of my taxes. Temporary or not. I still have 2% less of my salary to stimulate the economy. Guess the recession continues.
anyone know of a "temporary tax raise" that has not been renewed or made permanent?