Gun poll

[oldr_n_wsr]

Background check (with an appeal process if denied) and a gun safety course (rifle and pistol). To those I would agree.

[dales]

dittio

[liberty]

Oh, okay...

Re:

"every person should have an unqualified right to own firearms"

I'm opposed to that. So is Wayne LaPierre. So is the Supreme Court. So presumably is any minimally sane person.

I agree, some people should not even have kitchen knives.

[Lord Jim]

Now that I think about it I recall that jay, (probably at the Cafe Darte, but it could have been during the brief time he was at the CSB) once saying that he didn't believe the government had the right to prohibit private citizens from owning nuclear weapons....

Of course I allowed for that in my comment when I included the caveat, "minimally sane person"....

[Rick]

40 murders in Chicago in January of this year.

Wonder how many of those folk care anything about gun control?

[Sean]

Background check (with an appeal process if denied) and a gun safety course (rifle and pistol). To those I would agree.

Personally, I would agree with those and add, "damn good reason for wanting to own a gun" and limit the number of guns a household was allowed to possess.

[Andrew D]

Does self-defense -- including defending one's loved ones and one's home -- qualify as a "damn good reason for wanting to own a gun"?

[Sean]

For me, no it doesn't. I have never owned a gun nor ever had any desire to own a gun. Somehow my family and I sleep soundly in our beds at night and do not fear for our lives. I have walked many streets in many cities on many nights in my lifetime and never once did I wish to have a gun.

[Andrew D]

So what is a "damn good reason for wanting to own a gun"?

If defending oneself, one's loved ones, and one's home is not a "damn good reason for wanting to own a gun," what is?

[Sean]

If I were the person handing out the guns I would expect the applicant to provide the "damn good reason" and convince me that the reason was valid. You can't just have a list of good reasons and allow the applicant to simply choose one and grab a gun. That would be silly!

I also wonder if any of those who feel that they need guns to defend their homes and families have stopped to wonder if it may be the very gun culture they live in which has helped to shape the elements of society they fear...

[Andrew D]

So you think that there should be a "damn good reason" requirement, but you can't say what a "damn good reason" might be.

Is there some meaningful difference between that and "there is no such thing as a damn good reason"?

[Sean]

There is a meaningful difference between "can't say" and "don't believe that the onus lies with me to say". I'm not the person who wants the gun. Why then should I provide the justification for having the gun?

Once again, silly.

[Lord Jim]

I'm not the person who wants the gun. Why then should I provide the justification for having the gun?

Because you're the person who put forward the standard; "a damn good reason"....

That places the onus on you to define the standard you have set.

Personally, "defending oneself, one's loved ones, and one's home" strikes me as a very damn good reason.

[Sean]

If you really need to own a gun to defend yourself then so be it Jim. I'm just relieved that I live somewhere where that is not a necessity.

Now let's imagine that I'm the person who is standing between you and your gun. You insist that self defence is enough reason for me to give you the gun. I disagree. Can you change my mind?

[Lord Jim]

I wouldn't attempt to persuade you; I would ask you how on earth you could possibly justify that as not being a damn good reason.

[Sean]

Sorry Jim but with all due respect I see that as a cop out.

If your reason is so valid it should be pretty easy for you to justify.

[Lord Jim]

Sorry Jim but with all due respect I see that as a cop out.

Sorry, but with all due respect, it appears to me that you are the one who is copping out; having set a standard and now refusing to define it.

To me, ""defending oneself, one's loved ones, and one's home" is self-evidently a damn good reason; no further explanation is required...

If I walked in to apply for a gun permit and gave that as my explanation for wanting the permit, and the person behind the counter said "sorry, not good enough" I'd do a double take and think that I had wandered into a Monty Python skit; I would consider the response the height of absurdity; completely non-rational...I'd think I was on Candid Camera or Punked...I'd start looking around for a hidden camera...(either that or I would figure the guy was hard of hearing or didn't understand the English language)

I have to say Sean, your repeated tap dancing and attempts to deflect responsibility in order to avoid defining a standard that you created gives increased credibility to Andrew's suspicion that you don't really have one; that you don't believe there is such a thing as a "damn good reason" for a private citizen to own a firearm.

[Lord Jim]

Sean, we obviously come from completely different quadrants of the galaxy on this....

Let me present an analogy to illustrate how I view what you're attempting to require:

Suppose I and my family walk into our doctor's office and I say to the doctor, "We'd like to get flu shots, please"...

And the doctor says, "Well, why do you want them?" And I say, "well, so we'll have a better chance of not getting the flu"....

And he replies:

"I'm sorry, that's not good enough. Either give me a better reason, or explain to me why you don't want to get the flu."

To me, that is a precise analogy to what you are saying.

[Andrew D]

I want food.

Do you have a damn good reason for wanting food?

I want food, because I need to eat.

Do you have a damn good reason for needing to eat?

I need to eat, because if I do not eat, I will not survive.

Do you have a damn good reason for surviving?

[rubato]

"....
And he replies:

"I'm sorry, that's not good enough. Either give me a better reason, or explain to me why you don't want to get the flu."

To me, that is a precise analogy what you are saying.

Empirical evidence shows that vaccines prevent disease. Empirical evidence does not show that having a gun protects you against crime. You can just as well claim that having dynamite, or JuJu beads will protect you against crime.

yrs,
rubato