Westboro apologies

[Gob]

Sisters from the infamous ‘God Hates Gays’ extremist religious hate group, who picket military funerals and high profile events, have apologised for the ‘hurt’ they caused after leaving the family church to start a new life.



Megan Phelps-Roper, 27, and her sister Grace, 19, have left the controversial Westboro Baptist Church founded by their grandfather, which saw them holding placards with the words ‘God Hates Fags,’ ‘Fags Doom Nations’ and ‘Thank God for Dead Soldiers', at the funerals of U.S. personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, and publicly celebrating when a stranger contracts cancer.

Miss Phelps-Roper, who was once called as the ‘future leader’ of the church, has confirmed that after 27 years she has made the decision to leave, effectively being cut off from her family.

She wrote on blog platform medium.com on Wednesday: ‘Up until now, our names have been synonymous with “God Hates Fags”.

‘We know that we’ve done and said things that hurt people. Inflicting pain on others wasn’t the goal, but it was one of the outcomes. We wish it weren’t so, and regret that hurt.

‘We know that we dearly love our family. They now consider us betrayers, and we are cut off from their lives, but we know they are well-intentioned. We will never not love them.’

Miss Phelps-Roper ran the church’s social media presence, posting on Twitter up to 150 times a day from her phone, and her mother, Shirley, had called her her ‘right-hand man’.

She acted as a spokesperson for the group and did hundreds of interviews with journalists from all around the world.

She said: 'Until very recently, this is what I lived, breathed, studied, believed, preached – loudly, daily, and for nearly 27 years.

'I never thought it would change. I never wanted it to. Then suddenly: it did. And I left.'

Church member Margie Phelps took to Twitter today as news broke of Ms Phelps-Roper’s departure from the church.

She posted: 'Some day @washingtonpost will get it-standard of God doesn't change for anyone, including #NotOfUs @meganphelps.'

Westboro Baptist Church has made international news many times for its strong views against homosexuality.

Made up mostly by the Kansas-based Phelps family, the religious group blames most tragedies - from the death of American soldiers to the recent massacre of 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School - on what they call a 'pro-gay' agenda in America.

Recently, Margie Phelps said in a video-taped interview that God sent the 20-year-old Adam Lanza, the Sandy Hook shooter, to kill 20 people in Connecticut in December last year because the state legalized same-sex marriage.

'Connecticut was one of the first states to come out with same-sex marriage,' Phelps said as she sat beside a blood-red-stained sign that read: 'God sent the shooter.'

Former member Libby Phelps Alvarez, 29, recently spoke about her departure from the church and finding peace in her new life which did not restrict her from having a haircut, traveling and being confined to the borders of the U.S.

She decided to leave after church members confronted her about a bikini she had worn during a family vacation that she decided to follow her brother’s lead, who had left two years earlier.

Estranged from her family, Mrs Phelps Alvarez now lives in Lawrence not far from the University of Kansas campus with her newlywed husband, Logan.

Documentary maker Louis Theroux has made two documentaries, in 2007 and 2011, about the Phelps family, interviewing founder Reverend Fred Phelps, Ms Phelps-Roper’s mother and Megan herself. He made the second documentary, with the title 'America's Most Hated Family in Crisis' after two other young members of the church decided to leave.

He said at the time: ‘I’ve always been fascinated by this organisation. They operate as a cult, but are pretty unique in that they have allowed the media, and me, in. Yet after our first programme, two of the children of the family left the church, and contacted me.

‘I’m not claiming they left because of the programme, but it was obviously a factor. I was curious to go back, to see why.’

[Jarlaxle]

Is there an echo in here? ...here? ...here?

[Lord Jim]

Documentary maker Louis Theroux has made two documentaries, in 2007 and 2011, about the Phelps family, interviewing founder Reverend Fred Phelps, Ms Phelps-Roper’s mother and Megan herself. He made the second documentary, with the title 'America's Most Hated Family in Crisis' after two other young members of the church decided to leave

I've seen both of those documentaries; fascinating stuff....

Westboro has lost over a third of it's membership over the past few years, and more are leaving all the time; it's a dying group.

Here are some observations from the fellow who did the documentaries:

In the first documentary, the church members were confident that they were in the right and that they would grow while in the second you could see doubt and uncertainty within its ranks. It was clear that the church was under stress with defections of their young sapping the energy of the organization. As I wrote back in 2011:

Now they seem just sad and pathetic, an older group trying to keep up the momentum but not having the sharpness and edge they had before and largely going through the motions. There was an air of weariness and resignation and I got the sense that the aging church was on the ropes. The parents of the defecting children maintained a façade that it is good when apostates leave and that they did not care that they had lost all contact with their own children but it was unconvincing, except for a couple of true believers. It was also clear that they are worried that even more children will defect as they reach adulthood and discover the appeal of modernity via the contacts that they make on the internet, promising a freedom that is too alluring to resist compared to the tight embrace of the church.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/singham/201 ... t+Blogs%29

[Scooter]

we know they are well-intentioned

Ms. Phelps-Roper either hasn't quite seen the light yet, or she has a misguided sense of loyalty.

Then again, most people shared the same view so long as the Phelps clan confined their activities to targetting actual homosexuals. It was only when they started picketing military funerals and the like that they managed to raise the ire of the mainstream.

[Crackpot]

One could be well intentioned and completely wrong Scoot

[Scooter]

Do you actually believe the Westboro crowd are well intentioned?

If so, I have serious questions about your sanity.

[Crackpot]

I believe that they think what they are doing what is right. And are therefore well intentioned. How thier beliefs intersect with reality is another story altogether

[Scooter]

By that logic the Nazis were well intentioned because they believed that exterminating Jews, etc. was the right thing to do. And invoke Godwin's Law however much you wish, but I see absolutely no distinction between that and the claim you just made.

[Crackpot]

Hardly. While I'm sure there were true believers in the bunch most saw it as a means to an end. It a difference between seeing the means as just or the ends justifying the means.
What seems to be tripping you up is an idea that being "well intentioned" somehow infers "goodness" or "righteousness" on the act. Don't forget the old saying " the road to hell is paved with good intentions"

Taking the view from their torturously warped theology the intent of their actions is "pure". But that doesn't mean it holds true to the deity they profess to believe in let alone any other theological or secular standard.

[Scooter]

Hardly. While I'm sure there were true believers in the bunch most saw it as a means to an end.

And you don't believe that the Westboro bunch see their antics as merely a means to an end? There are many who are convinced that they act as outrageously as they do in order to provoke violent or other illegal responses which will allow them to cash in on lawsuits, several of which they have won over the years. I hardly think it's a coincidence that almost all of them did became lawyers. Think about it.

And no, I am not confusing the meaning of "well intentioned" at all. I just don't believe that any reasonable interpretation of their actions could characterize them as well intentioned. Well intentioned people do not intentionally inflict harm.

[Joe Guy]

Well intentioned people do not intentionally inflict harm.

The U.S. dropped atom bombs on Hiroshima & Nagasaki in a well-intentioned move to end the war with Japan.

[Scooter]

First, the stated rationale was that even more Japanese would have died if the home islands had to be invaded and conquered by conventional means. Lesser of two evils, and all that. Do the Phelpses seriously believe that fewer American soldiers would have died in Afghanistan or Iraq by yelling at their funerals of soldiers who had already died that they were "fags" or "fag lovers"? If not, I fail to see the analogy.

Second, dropping the bombs was probably more about sending a message to the Russians than it was about ending the war, which takes it right out of the well intentioned category altogether, and makes it no more than a craven political calculation.

[dales]

...and then we had the Southeast Asia fiasco.

[Joe Guy]

Second, dropping the bombs was probably more about sending a message to the Russians than it was about ending the war, which takes it right out of the well intentioned category altogether, and makes it no more than a craven political calculation.

Even if, as you believe, it was a "message to the Russians," the dropping of the atom bombs was well-intentioned and caused harm.

You can't change the facts to support your incorrect statement.

On second thought, you can change facts in your own mind, which makes you well-intentioned but wrong at the same time.

[Scooter]

Even if, as you believe, it was a "message to the Russians," the dropping of the atom bombs was well-intentioned and caused harm.

How is firing a warning shot over the bow well intentioned? Since when are threats well intentioned?

You can't change the facts to support your incorrect statement.

In the face of your uncontrollable need to turn every statement on its head, probably not.

So you win. Happy?

[Joe Guy]

Even if, as you believe, it was a "message to the Russians," the dropping of the atom bombs was well-intentioned and caused harm.

How is firing a warning shot over the bow well intentioned? Since when are threats well intentioned?

If the U.S. did what they did to send a message to the Russians, it would have been to keep peace by letting them know it wouldn't be in their best interest to challenge us.

You can't change the facts to support your incorrect statement.

In the face of your uncontrollable need to turn every statement on its head, probably not.

If making a good counter argument is turning every statement on its head, then I suppose I can understand why you think it's uncontrollable.

So you win. Happy?

You admitted you were wrong, therefore I'm happy.

[Crackpot]

Do the Phelpses seriously believe that fewer American soldiers would have died in Afghanistan or Iraq by yelling at their funerals of soldiers who had already died that they were "fags" or "fag lovers"? If not, I fail to see the analogy.

In short yes. In their view they are not being provocative they are being truthful. In their minds they are speaking the truth of Gods wrath. They have taken the evangelical worldview to extremes having gone far past the point where the the likes of Falwell and Robertson have (in some cases repeatedly) been slapped back into a worldview where everything that goes "wrong" is directly attributable to Gods wrath. An anti-prospertity gospel if you will. The thing that most miss is the Phelps mob doesn't seek or even expect large scale conversion to "their truth" seeing the vast majority of the world as beyond salvation and that their "true" message will only reach those God has chosen.

[Scooter]

So if they really don't believe that their actions will bring about any change (because pretty much everyone but them is damned regardless of what they do), then how can their completely indiscriminate spewing of hatred be "well intentioned"?

Doing the equivalent of chanting "nyeh, nyeh, we're the elect who are going to be saved, and the rest of you will burn in hell" seems far from well intentioned.

[Scooter]

I'm happy.

Since it means so much to you, I'm happy for you.

Now if you'll excuse me, the adults are talking.

[Joe Guy]

I'm happy.

Since it means so much to you, I'm happy for you.

Now if you'll excuse me, the adults are talking.

I wish you didn't have the need to personalize everything.

I do my best to adhere to the Plan B Forum motto: "Have fun, relax, but above all ARGUE!"