Pope Benedict Announces Resignation

[oldr_n_wsr]

I agree, it's their church and selection of their leadership is their business. I thought maybe you were campaigning for the members to have a direct vote and say in the matter.

That would be nice, much like we (the average voter) might like a say (or at least a percentage) in who gets elected president. But the systems are as they are and we do the best with what we have.

[Guinevere]

Does that include not letting the active catholics decide, but leaving that decision to an appointed board?

Well that's the system the religion has. Seems like our electoral congress (or whatever it's called) to get the president in office. I voted against Oboma as did many others yet 100% of our electoral votes went to Obama. I would guess some significant percentage went to other candidates, yet Obama got them all.

Let the Catholics deal with it. You join the society (religion) you deal with the rules they have to pick a leader. I was raised Catholic (but have no interest in it now) and believe they can do what they want and my (or anoy other non-Catholics) opinion does not matter nor should it.

It's called the Electoral College. If you want to change it, it can be done, it only takes legislation. Maine (and I think Nebraska) award electoral votes based on which candidate wins the congressional district.

[oldr_n_wsr]

It's called the Electoral College.

I knew that, just had a brain fart. Thanks

If you want to change it, it can be done, it only takes legislation. Maine (and I think Nebraska) award electoral votes based on which candidate wins the congressional district.

I would love to, but i doubt NY would have the where with all. NY City decides what the state does and they love having their "control". And forget about district (Gerrymandering and all that), if I were to change it, it woudl be a direct relation to voter percentage no matter which district the votes came from.

[Sean]

[Gob]

[Lord Jim]

You know, over the years, I've seen some good intellectual arguments for the Atheistic point of view, and some not so good arguments, for that souless and depressing point of view...

Guess which category the "God must not exist because if He did, He would order things the way Strop thinks He should" argument falls in to?

[Gob]

The former.

[Guinevere]

I understand that Catholics the world over may be experiencing a profound sense of popelessness.

(Stolen from a friend.)

What do you call a former Pope?


Ex-Benedict.



Particularly good with high Hollandaise.

[Sue U]

, Guin!

[Big RR]

The best of the puns.

[Joe Guy]

What do you call a former Pope?

Until recently, for the last 600 years it was "Dead".

[dgs49]

Shocker: rubato uses this thread as a forum to post more vacuous anti-Catholic bile. Quotes a NYT editorial as a source.

Who woulda expected THAT?

[Lord Jim]

Dave, in fairness to rube, while his "response" in this thread was entirely predictable (Pavlovian in fact) he was certainly not alone in seeing this thread as yet another vehicle for yet another round of Catholic-bashing. (I'm not refering to the light hearted jokes, word play and puns posted by some)

I learned some time ago that it is virtually impossible to have a serious discussion about anything related to the Catholic Church on this board without this happening. As a result I usually don't bother to start a thread about anything related to Catholicism, (or participate in discussions about it) because it's just not worth having to deal with the torrent of predictable, repetitive, off-topic gratutitous Catholic-bashing that inevitably accompanies any such discussion.

However in this case, I thought the subject, (the first resignation of a Pope in 600 years) was sufficiently important to be willing to deal with all the faldera. I simply ignored it all, and pressed on to make the points I wanted to make;it seems there were a couple of other folks (including yourself) who were interested in having a serious discussion about this as well.

Oh well, I guess I should just be grateful that at least no one repeated yet again the baseless canard that Benedict was a "Nazi"....

[Econoline]

It really does seem like there's something about the papacy (probably the Silly Hat) that brings out the worst jokes from everyone...

[Gob]

I learned sometime ago that it is virtually impossible to have a serious discussion about anything related to the Catholic Church on this board without this happening.

The very nature and lunacy of the Catholic Church precludes that happening Jim...

Oh well, I guess I should just be grateful that at least no one repeated yet again the baseless canard that Benedict was a "Nazi"....

Wait, did I tell you about......

[Grim Reaper]

[rubato]

One of the electors of the last and probably the next Pope has more and more "character" issues:

"... Roger Mahony must be an atheist--or, if not, be shitting himself 24/7/365: "Church Used Cemetery Money to Pay Sex Abuse Settlement 'Pressed to come up with hundreds of millions of dollars to settle clergy sex abuse lawsuits, Cardinal Roger M. Mahony turned to one group of Catholics whose faith could not be shaken: the dead,' the Los Angeles Times reports. 'Under his leadership in 2007, the Archdiocese of Los Angeles quietly appropriated $115 million from a cemetery maintenance fund and used it to help pay a landmark settlement with molestation victims. The church did not inform relatives of the deceased that it had taken the money, which amounted to 88% of the fund. Families of those buried in church-owned cemeteries and interred in its mausoleums have contributed to a dedicated account for the perpetual care of graves, crypts and grounds since the 1890s.'"

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2013/ ... al+Wire%29




yrs,
rubato

[Big RR]

Not to defend him, but my guess is that the church administered the fund and the approriation was legal, either a loan of principal not needed for current expenses (like the federal government "borrowing" the social security funds) or was a taking of investment profits not needed to make the perpetual care fund solvent, something fairly common with trust and endowment funds (depending on the rules governing the fund when it was set up). The cashing in of assets to pay a judgment is fairly commonplace--presumably the dioceses had to raise cash somehow, and I doubt they'd be so stupid as to take funds they were prohibited from touching. Face it, any judgment will be paid from church assets, not the pockets of the leadership, and those who are part of the church must either decide that they will continue to accept paying such judgments over and over again, or will demand a change in direction of the leadership.

[Scooter]

I'm sure that one factor in his decision was to step aside while he was still vigorous enough to play a part in the selection of his successor.

He can't of course guarantee who it will be, and he certainly won't announce any public preference, but many of the current Cardinals are the same people who selected him, (and he just last October added a new group), so I'm sure that his preference will carry some weight.

I've been watching Italian news coverage over the week, and it looks like he will be going to great pains not to have any contact with cardinals who will be participating in the conclave, or anyone else, by secluding himself at Castel Gandolfo (the summer home of the popes in the hills south of Rome) after his resignation takes effect. Eventually he will be moving to a monastery within the confines of Vatican City. Which is not to say that he has not already expressed a preference, as many popes before him did prior to their deaths (Paul VI was elected at least in part because he was seen as John XXIII's favoured choice).

It's ironic, though, that a pope who above all was seen, in his career before and during his papacy, as jealously guarding the traditions of the Church against change, that he should be the pope that might spur an evolution in how the office of pope comes to be seen. If it becomes the norm that popes do not hold office for life, it may transform the role of the pope into one that is more primus inter pares - first among equals among the bishops of the Church, and thus more likely to exercise authority more collegially with them, rather than claiming the authority to act alone.

Of course, it is equally possible that this resignation will be an anomaly that doesn't repeat itself for another half millenium or more.

[Gob]

Father Dougal McGuire: I've never met a celebrity before.
Father Ted Crilly: You met the Pope.
Father Dougal McGuire: Did I?
Father Ted Crilly: Yes, do you not remember that time we were in Rome?
Father Dougal McGuire: That was the Pope? That old fella living in the art gallery?
Father Ted Crilly: The Vatican, Dougal! The Vatican!
Father Dougal McGuire: Still, he's not a celebrity in the true sense of the word.
Father Ted Crilly: He's God's representative on Earth, Dougal!
Father Dougal McGuire: You'd think he'd be taller.
Father Ted Crilly: You mean like a giant?