Toilet training

[oldr_n_wsr]

So wait a second, because other students might harass her in the washrooms means she shouldn't be allowed to use them?

In a previous post you were worried about her/hom being stigmatised by using the nurses bathroom. I was pointing out it is going to happen no matter where he/she pees.

So I guess the solution is to add a multisex bathroom in all the schools.
Don't know? pee here.

I thought the notion of separate but equal had been discredited years ago. Should Coy use a different water fountain from the other students as well, in case other students have a problem with drinking from the same tap that was used by this not-a-boy-not-a-girl? Maybe they could make signs for them, instead of "white" and "colored" they could say "everyone else but..." and "the freak of nature".

Oh stop it. This is not oppression, this actually is trying to accomodate (at least in this discussion). They are trying to minimize impact on the student in question and satisify the other students and their parents.
As I said, make a third bathroom which says "Don't know? Pee here"

The school created a tempest in a teapot over something that everyone involved would have gotten used to in fairly short order, if they had any problem at all with it in the first place.

You know this how?

How did the kindergarten manage to make it work? Some sort of miracle? Another plot hatched by the child abusing, attention seeking parents?

I don't know how the kindergarten made it work. One person at a time in the bathroom with an escort? Who knows. Older kids tend to take care of their "evacuations" themselves rather than asking and going, thus multiple people at a time in a bathroom. My kindergarten class had one bathroom off the side of the classroom where one kid went at a time, not a problem. Since it's been 50 years since I went to kindergarten, I don't know how it's handled now.

[Crackpot]

How many school bathrooms have you hung out in Scoot?

[Gob]

I used to travel a fair bit around the U.S. before the HIV ban,

Is the ban still in place? What was the ban for that matter?

[Scooter]

In a previous post you were worried about her/hom being stigmatised by using the nurses bathroom. I was pointing out it is going to happen no matter where he/she pees.

It's one thing to know that kids are going to stigmatize her to some extent regardless. It's quite another thing altogether for the school administration to reinforce that stigma by refusing to treat her as a girl.

So I guess the solution is to add a multisex bathroom in all the schools.

Actually there are several public buildings in Toronto (community centres, public health branch offices, etc.) that have unisex washrooms (stalls only, and yes, all with doors ) in addition to men's and women's washrooms. Transgender people have the choice to use them if they are uncomfortable with using gender segregated washrooms (if their appearance does not "pass", for example). But they are still allowed to use sex-segregated washrooms, just as other people can and do use the unisex washrooms, for whatever reason (one that I use fairly frequently is at the community centre down the street, sometimes I get off of transit at that corner and don't want to hold it till I walk the rest of the way home, so I duck in the centre and the washroom nearest to the entrance is unisex, so I always use that one. No one is being excluded from any facility, everyone can go where they are most comfortable, and so everyone is happy).

Oh stop it. This is not oppression, this actually is trying to accomodate (at least in this discussion). They are trying to minimize impact on the student in question and satisify the other students and their parents.

And I'm sure that the water coming out of the "colored" fountain tasted every bit as good as the ones marked "white". And there was no less padding on the seats at the back of the bus, either.

The school created a tempest in a teapot over something that everyone involved would have gotten used to in fairly short order, if they had any problem at all with it in the first place.

You know this how?

Because other school districts have successfully implemented accommodation policies for transgender students, including washroom access. For example, the Toronto District School Board's policy says that washroom access shall be according to the student's or employee's self-defined gender identity (no necessity to display the surgical scars, as keld would dictate). Additionally, where possible schools will provide a single stall all-gender washroom that may be accessed by anyone who feels they need additional privacy, for whatever reason. So trans students can use gender-segregated washrooms, if they choose, or they can use the single stall washroom, if they choose, and other students can continue to use the gender segregated washrooms, if they choose, and if they find themselves getting too freaked out by having a trans person three stalls down, they are free to use the single stall washroom as well.

I don't know how the kindergarten made it work.

Perhaps that would have been a good place for the current school to start, then. How does the school deal with other issues arising from the fact that students are often using washrooms simultaneously? Surely the notion of "is everyone behaving properly while they are in the washroom" is not a new question.

[Scooter]

How many school bathrooms have you hung out in Scoot?

I don't know, a few dozen, maybe. Every high school in the city where I grew up, playing high school sports, there were 17 or 18 of them. Maybe five or six elementary schools. I used to volunteer for the speaker's bureau for the AIDS committee here, so I've been to at least 30 schools in Toronto. I cannot recall a single time noticing that a stall was missing a door.

But, for the sake of argument, so the fuck what? If you're sitting on a toilet doing your business, and wearing clothes, your genitalia are not going to be visible to anyone walking by. Or are you telling me that you get to see a lot of genitalia when you frequent these doorless washroom stalls?

(that last bit was just getting back at you for the thinly veiled pedophilia crack)

Is the ban still in place? What was the ban for that matter?

Ostensibly as a public health measure, the U.S. refused entry to any HIV+ person, with a few narrow exceptions. It was the price of getting Republican support for the Ryan White Care Act, which is one of the funding mechanisms for HIV programs and services. The law put HIV in the same category of communicable diseases as things like TB and other airborne pathogens, which, given its modes of transmission, was patently ridiculous. It was lifted in late 2009.

[Crackpot]

No you just decided to pass yourself off as a bathroom expert so I wondered what your school experience was. If anything it was an antipedophilia thing since there are a lot of school bathrooms in the states without freaking doors on them. Probably a combination of cost savings anti vandalism and just plain authoritarianism.

[Crackpot]

BTW do you sit on the throne while you wipe?

[Lord Jim]

BTW do you sit on the throne while you wipe?

Is that really a question we need an answer to?

[Crackpot]

I don't know of anyone who does. (I don't think anyone wants to risk dipping their hand in). The point being at that point you are exposed

[Scooter]

Actually I lean forward and slightly to the side while remaining on the seat. If anything it would be even more difficult to see anything.

[Rick]

How do the "rest of the boys" use the urinals? Do they lower their trousers and underwear right down to their knees or lower, or pull one leg completely off,

Many kids that age pull their pants down to pee, A girl without the benefit of something to pull through a zipper most assuredly would have to.

Well little goldfish has been pulled out to be home schooled until this is resolved.

So now since he can't use a gender neutral restroom without being stigmatized he will be brought up in the nurture and admonition of psycho babble.

They'll win the case, and why not we let murderers go free left and right, why shouldn't the lucid be punished?

Give him a little dro dro he'll calm right down...

[Crackpot]

Actually I lean forward and slightly to the side while remaining on the seat. If anything it would be even more difficult to see anything.

FYI my anatomy doesn't allow me to contort that way. No one size fits all solution it would seem.

[Lord Jim]

[Crackpot]

I dd it all for you Jim

[oldr_n_wsr]

Toilet trainin is over rated.

[Gob]

A Colorado primary school discriminated against a six-year-old transgender girl by barring her from using the girls' toilets, a civil rights panel has said.

The panel in the US state of Colorado said Coy Mathis' school ignored her gender identity and created an environment "rife with harassment".

Her family had removed her from the school in response.

The case comes as schools and governments across the US grapple with the emergence of transgender people.

It is seen as a test of Colorado's expanded civil rights protections, passed in 2008.

Coy had been allowed to use the girls' toilets without issue until several months into her second year at Eagleside Elementary School, according to the ruling.

In December 2012, school officials said Coy must use the boys' toilets or single-stall rooms in the teachers' lounge or the nurse's office.

Under the decision by the civil rights division of the Colorado Department of Regulatory Agencies, the school district and Coy's family must "attempt amicable resolution" in accordance with the discrimination finding.

The Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund, which assisted the family's case, hailed the decision.

"This ruling sends a loud and clear message that transgender students may not be targeted for discrimination and that they must be treated equally in school," Executive Director Michael Silverman said in a statement.

Coy's mother, Kathryn Mathis, said the family was "thrilled that Coy can return to school and put this behind her".

"All we ever wanted was for Coy's school to treat her the same as other little girls."

The school district, Fountain-Fort Carson, has declined to discuss the case.

But a spokeswoman for the Colorado Department of Regulatory Agencies said the district could seek arbitration or a public trial.

While she had always expressed a preference for things associated with girls, Coy became depressed and withdrawn if forced to wear boys' clothes or referred to as a boy in school, her family said.

The Mathises said the school had initially been "really fantastic" in response to their requests that Coy be treated as a girl in school and that their daughter had "blossomed" as a result.

[dgs49]

Until someone comes up with a better definition, a "boy" is a child with a penis. Not allowed in the girls toilets. Sorry.

This little toddler went through a wierd, harmless phase where he exhibited behaviors that his mother associated with being a girl. Rather than ignore them, they indulged the boy and thus created "a monster" of a problem, for no reason other than their own stupidity as parents.

How fucking priceless that the very same people who claim that women can be soldiers because other than passing some physical tests, there's no functional difference between the sexes, also claim that certain behaviors of a child are definitive of "girlness" regardless of plumbing accessories.

This kid is destined for a fucked up life because his parents are idiots.

[rubato]

Some people have "issues" with bathroom anxiety.

At UCSC several of the colleges were designed and built before (the students made) the decision to have co-ed housing. This meant nearly all the bathrooms in the dorms were co-ed as well. Other than some awkward moments when parents discovered this it was not much of a problem ever after.

yrs,
rubato