Dakota, don't school your kids there!!

[oldr_n_wsr]

it is correct to inquire as to when the life of that new being becomes alive (although the consequence of the answer to this eludes me as it applies to abortion).

I believe that is the crux of the dilemma.
Don't ask me, I'm an engineer.

[Big RR]

Perhaps, but again I don't really see this as dispositive with abortion. Even assuming that an entity becomes alive at comnception, does that entity have right superior to that of the mother who, for whatever reason, does not want to carry it inside her? Soo far as i can see, no individuals have the right to control other individuals to a point even approaching this level, even if there is a familial connectiion (e.g., a mother cannot be forced to nurse an infant if she does not want to, although she may have a financial obligation to contribute financially to its nutrition, nor can a child require a parent to give up a kidney or lung for transplant, even if it will die without it). At best, a child can demand parental financial support; are the rights of a fetus (even if it is "alive") that much greater? And if so, why?

[oldr_n_wsr]

Not going anywhere near that. too much of this --> with the subject.
I do not support abortion (not an option I/we chose) nor do I think it should be outlawed as that is the individuals (couples) decision and everyones circumstance is different.

ETA
I do think that if the fetus is viable, that's when an abortion should not be performed.

[dgs49]

Consider: The state passes the referendum stating that HUMAN life (not that of a spermatozoan or ovum) starts at conception. Accordingly, any intentional or recklessly negligent act to end a pregnancy is some sort of homicide/felony, and NO MORE ABORTIONS!

In the Liberal world, the result will be that SD will presently be the locus of thousands of permanently injured or killed women who have been "forced into a back alley abortion." Other SD women - surely thousands of them - will produce a new generation of "unwanted children" who, because of the stupidity of the electorate, were not aborted, but rather, were born. We will also see "thousands" of dead women who suffered from medical conditions that made childbirth dangerous, but couldn't get abortions. Many, many women would become pregnant via rape and/or incest, and would bring into South Dakota these little bastard children, unwanted, unloved, serving only to remind their poor mothers of the horrors that they endured.

Ahem.

But in the real world, the women (and men?) of South Dakota - predominantly white and middle class - would start to take greater care with their reproductive activity, and there would be a couple children born who otherwise wouldn't have been.

In short, B. F. D.

[Scooter]

You see folks, in Dave's world, the only thing restraining people from certain actions are the existence of criminal laws to the contrary, and the existence of criminal laws prevents everyone from acting contrary to them.

Thus, the only thing preventing Dave from raping his own grandchildren are criminal laws that tell him he shouldn't, and if those laws didn't exist, he would be using his own grandchildren for sexual gratification 24/7.

And the fact that criminal laws against raping children exist, means that no one ever breaks those laws and rapes children anyway.

Must be nice to live in a universe where what the law says is a 100% predictor of the way people will act.

The rest of us live in the real world. Let us know when you decide to join us here.

[Big RR]

Right Dave; and a fetus, by virtue of being alive, would have an absolute right to enslave a woman and force her to keep it within her body, regardless of what harm is being caused by it? Or would it be justifiable homicide to terminate the pregnancy because of the harm? Somehow I don't think you would find it judtifiable, but feel free to comment.

IMHO, it's pretty silly that a decision/statute on the personhood of a fetus would give it superior rights to those already born--it has no relationship to any other relationship among post-boprn persons. But enslaving people is no BFD, right? If they didn't want to be slaves to the preborn, they shouldn't have screwed in the first place? That's your argument?

[Lord Jim]

Re the OP...

I'm not a big fan of arming teachers, (though I have been gradually coming around on the idea of having on duty cops in the schools...in addition to providing security, I can see other positive roles this could serve to help build better relations between communities and police...The high school Tati will be attending next year has an armed security guard...That isn't why the school was picked...) primarily because of concerns about proper training and whether they might wind up getting their gun stolen...

However....

If I was forced to chose between having a properly trained school staff member or teacher being armed, or having a big "THIS IS A GUN FREE ZONE" sign out front the choice is pretty obvious....

It's difficult imagine any thing that could possibly be more detrimental to school safety than one of those, "ATTENTION DIRT BAGS! EASY PICKINGS HERE!" idiotic signs....

The self righteous ninnies in local governments who voted to have those "gun free zone" signs erected in front of schools, should be required to have one displayed prominently on their front lawn....

[Lord Jim]

Maine town of Byron plans mandatory gun-ownership vote

I remember when Kennesaw GA became the first town to pass one of these; got a lot of publicity for the town; 60 Minutes even did a segment on it....

I don't know about this law in Maine, but as I recall, the Kennesaw law has no penalty attached to it for violating it...(which is probably why it's never been successfully challenged in court; if no one is ever penalized for violating the law, who would have standing?)

In my view a law without a penalty for violating it really isn't a "law" even if the local politicos care to call it one...

It's really more of a "suggestion"....

[oldr_n_wsr]

Lanza had hundreds of rounds/clips left when he finally ended by shooting himself. I am convinced the only reason he ended it, was because armed opposition (aka cops) was approaching.

Maybe an armed guard could not have prevented it (we'll never know) but maybe, just maybe, fewer might have been killed had there been an armed guard or principle or teacher. of course they all need training, I do not deny that

[oldr_n_wsr]

Of course all the parents and law makers and politico's will say we don't want our kids to attend a prison for a school. It can be made to look "normal". A security guard, dressed with a suit and tie who only observes and then reacts.
And besides, the world has changed. I don't know what is worse, me growing up learning nuclear missle drills (go into the hall, sit down back on the wall, put your head between your knees (and kiss your ass goodbye) or having a guard, ex cop, current cop whatever in a nice suit and tie. The kids will get to know him and eventually he might even keep some from being dick-heads. In the mean time, he is armed and if the need arises, he might just stop a Newtown.

[dgs49]

Big RR, you are aware, I suppose, that for the first 200 years of this republic, it was universally criminal to abort a child. Furthermore, the only available means of birth control (other than simply not engaging in reproductive conduct) were both unpleasant and only marginally effective. And yet somehow enough women were able to endure the torture and slavery of bearing children so that we did not all die out.

You idiot.

[Scooter]

Big RR, you are aware, I suppose, that for the first 200 years of this republic, it was universally criminal to abort a child

Someone's arithmetic needs some work.

[Econoline]

Abortion in American History

Until the last third of the nineteenth century, when it was criminalized state by state across the land, abortion was legal before "quickening" (approximately the fourth month of pregnancy). Colonial home medical guides gave recipes for "bringing on the menses" with herbs that could be grown in one's garden or easily found in the woods. By the mid eighteenth century commercial preparations were so widely available that they had inspired their own euphemism ("taking the trade"). Unfortunately, these drugs were often fatal. The first statutes regulating abortion, passed in the 1820s and 1830s, were actually poison-control laws: the sale of commercial abortifacients was banned, but abortion per se was not. The laws made little difference. By the 1840s the abortion business -- including the sale of illegal drugs, which were widely advertised in the popular press -- was booming. The most famous practitioner, Madame Restell, openly provided abortion services for thirty-five years, with offices in New York, Boston, and Philadelphia and traveling salespeople touting her "Female Monthly Pills."

(Click on the link--here or above--for the whole article.)

[Scooter]

Now, now, don't confuse him with the facts, his head might finally explode.

[Gob]

US schools should train and arm staff members and appoint an armed guard to respond to shootings, a powerful US gun-rights group has said.

In a report commissioned in response to a December school massacre, the National Rifle Association (NRA) said armed guards would make schools safer.

It advised schools to use its online assessment tools to improve security.

A national teachers' union called the report a "cruel hoax" designed to sell more guns and ammunition.

The NRA study comes amid a national debate on gun control after 26 people, including 20 children, were killed in a primary school shooting in Connecticut in December.

"The presence of armed security personnel in a school adds a layer of security and diminishes the response time that is beneficial to the overall security," said Asa Hutchinson, a former Republican congressman who led the NRA task force that developed the report.

The study, which Mr Hutchinson said cost more than $1m (£660,000), said the NRA had the "nationally recognised expertise to develop and implement the stringent training courses" that armed security officers would need.

Among the recommendations in the 225-page study were better co-ordination with law enforcement agencies and online security assessments for schools.

The recommendations were criticised by the American Federation of Teachers, which represents 1.5 million teachers.

"Today's NRA proposal is a cruel hoax that will fail to keep our children and schools safe," union President Randi Weingarten said, adding the proposals were "designed to assist gun manufacturers" to sell more weapons and ammunition to Americans.

Since the December massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, the states of Colorado and New York have enacted strict gun control measures, while Connecticut is poised to do so this week.

Federal gun control legislation, meanwhile, has stalled in Congress amid strong opposition from the NRA and its allies in the US Senate. The chamber will begin debating legislation next week.

On Wednesday, President Barack Obama is due to travel to Denver, Colorado to continue his push for new gun control measures including an assault weapons ban, background checks on all prospective gun purchasers, and a ban on high-capacity ammunition magazines.

[rubato]

The DA was a 23-year military veteran who was armed and it did him nothing. His assistant DA was armed and it did him nothing:


http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/31/justice/t ... index.html

Hasse had feared for his life and carried a gun to work, said a Dallas attorney who described herself as his longtime friend.

Colleen A. Dunbar said she spoke with Hasse on January 24. She said the prosecutor told her he had begun carrying a gun in and out of the county courthouse daily.

http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/T ... 398322.php

KAUFMAN, Texas (AP) — Kaufman County District Attorney Mike McLelland took no chances after one of his assistant prosecutors was gunned down two months ago. McLelland said he carried a gun everywhere he went and was extra careful when answering the door at his home.

"I'm ahead of everybody else because, basically, I'm a soldier," the 23-year Army veteran said in an interview less than two weeks ago.

On Saturday, he and his wife were found shot to death in their rural home just outside the town of Forney, about 20 miles from Dallas.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/news/texas/articl ... z2PP25CQXe

Having more armed guards does nothing to improve security. It is a fools idea.

yrs,
rubato

[Jarlaxle]

Stupid statement. If it were true, the President would not be surrounded by ARMED GUARDS. Are you trolling for kicks or actually THIS FUCKING DENSE?

[rubato]

Stupid statement. If it were true, the President would not be surrounded by ARMED GUARDS. Are you trolling for kicks or actually THIS FUCKING DENSE?

John F. Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, and Ronald Reagan all prove that even if we spend hundreds of millions/year trying to protect 1 person it is not 100% effective. ( I should add Gerald Ford since Squeaky Fromme would certainly have killed him if she knew how to work a gun. ) I don't thnk we can afford that much protection for every school child in the country, do you?


yrs,
rubato

[Big RR]

Big RR, you are aware, I suppose, that for the first 200 years of this republic, it was universally criminal to abort a child. Furthermore, the only available means of birth control (other than simply not engaging in reproductive conduct) were both unpleasant and only marginally effective. And yet somehow enough women were able to endure the torture and slavery of bearing children so that we did not all die out.

You idiot.

Idiot? No response, just go to hell!

[Guinevere]

Big RR, you are aware, I suppose, that for the first 200 years of this republic, it was universally criminal to abort a child. Furthermore, the only available means of birth control (other than simply not engaging in reproductive conduct) were both unpleasant and only marginally effective. And yet somehow enough women were able to endure the torture and slavery of bearing children so that we did not all die out.

You idiot.

Idiot? No response, just go to hell!

BigRR, it's a badge of honor for Dave to call one of us an idiot. He's called me that. Sue. Scooter. Others I'm sure. Always makes my day