Korean Brinksmanship

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Gob
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Re: Korean Brinksmanship

Post by Gob »

You can always rely on George G for the upfront truth ;)
Left-wing British Member of Parliament George Galloway, a long-time defender of the world’s worst dictatorships, blamed the tensions on the Korean peninsula on the United States Thursday.

“I’m much more afraid of the United States of America and so are most people in the world,” Galloway said on “Comments,” a show he hosts on the Iranian government’s English-language propaganda station, Press TV.

“North Korea has no intention to harm any of us. North Korea’s problem is with South Korea. South Korea exists because America invaded Korea, killed millions of people, divided the country and continues to garrison South Korea with military bases, nuclear weapons, chemical and biological weapon.”

According to Galloway, the U.S. “trumped” up the current crisis with North Korea and is responsible for repressive country’s dire economic situation.

“I believe that this is a United States trumped up little crisis,” he said. “They have pushed and pushed North Korea into a corner. The people in North Korea are in very dire straights in terms of standards of food, amount of food and access to oil and other energy resources.”

While Galloway conceded he wouldn’t want to live in North Korea, he generally praised the country for its achievements and standing up to the West.

“Look, I don’t agree with the North Korean political system and I’ve been there. I’ve seen it up close and personal,” he said.

“But there have been achievements in North Korea. They do have a satellite circling the earth. They have built a nuclear power industry even though they suspended it on false promises from President Clinton and other U.S. statesmen. They do have a cohesive, pristine actually, innocent culture. A culture that has not been penetrated by globalization and by Western mores and is very interesting to see.”

“But I wouldn’t like to live there. And I’m not advocating their system. Not least because they certainly don’t believe in God in North Korea,” he continued. “But they are courageously refusing to bow the knee to big power dictate and domination, and that is something that other people could take a lesson from.” (

In contrast to his gentle critique of North Korea’s oppressive regime, which is considered one of the most brutal and inhumane in the world, Galloway was far less restrained in his attack on the United States, Britain and South Korea.

During the show, Galloway called the free and prosperous South Korea an American “puppet state” and said “there is crime and vice and wickedness everywhere in the United States.”

“And we here in Britain where evil also stalks the land in the form of the British government,” he added.

Galloway also compared Kim Jong Un, who presides over the North Korean prison state, to former U.S. President George W. Bush.

“They say the young man who is the leader of North Korea is mad and he can’t be allowed to have nuclear weapons, but George W. Bush was mad and he had thousands of nuclear weapons,” Galloway said.

Galloway has a long history of defending dictatorships, from Syria’s Bashar al-Assad to Iraq’s Saddam Hussein.

He is also a relentless critic of Israel. In February, Galloway made news when he stormed out of a debate at Oxford University when he realized his opponent was a student from the Jewish state.

“I don’t debate with Israelis. I’ve been misled,” he said, abruptly exiting the debate hall. “I don’t recognize Israel, and I don’t debate with Israelis.”



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/08/briti ... z2Pw02hpmf
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

rubato
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Re: Korean Brinksmanship

Post by rubato »

oldr_n_wsr wrote:
The real underlying problem is not for us but for the people of N. Korea to solve. When they have the self-worth to demand a more democratic government and the courage to fight for it they might have it.
....
Compare Libya to Iraq. We were stupid to go into Iraq because the Iraqi people did not want their own emancipation enough to fight for it themselves.
Except that NK has nukes and can deelever them to countries around them. Yes, we can wiat (forever) for the NK citizens to rise up and take down the leaders, but in the mean time the leader can inflict much damage on neighboring countries.
Unfortuneatly no one has a strategy for taking the nukes away w/o causing him to use them which puts us back in 'containment'. And our greater capacity to respond 'in kind' is a very good deterrent there.

Even w/o nukes the proximity of Seoul to the border makes it impossible to pre-empt a devastating attack with artillery and rockets.

I think we should try communicating more directly with the Korean people as a group. Radio, flyers, I don't think they have a cell network to use but maybe there is a satellite-enabled technology.



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Lord Jim
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Re: Korean Brinksmanship

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Left-wing British Member of Parliament George Galloway, a long-time defender of the world’s worst dictatorships, blamed the tensions on the Korean peninsula on the United States Thursday.
LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:

That guy always cracks me up...

Yeah George, I'll bet the South Koreans are really unhappy that they aren't living in the Kim family's Worker's Paradise....

The North Koreans are doing a fantastic job fighting the scourge of obesity, (except apparently when it comes to the GenX Leader) and they certainly lead the world in combating climate change....

There's no country with a smaller carbon foot print, as this aerial night map of the Korean peninsula clearly illustrates:

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If the last person to leave North Korea turns out the lights, they won't have a big job....
Last edited by Lord Jim on Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:24 am, edited 5 times in total.
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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Korean Brinksmanship

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

My son is up at the border (DMZ) guarding demoncracy so I sure hope it all just blows over
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

oldr_n_wsr
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Re: Korean Brinksmanship

Post by oldr_n_wsr »

I do hope he stays well Meade. I really do.

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Lord Jim
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Re: Korean Brinksmanship

Post by Lord Jim »

X2...

And my thanks to him for his service.
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oldr_n_wsr
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Re: Korean Brinksmanship

Post by oldr_n_wsr »

X2 on Jim's post
Thanks

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Econoline
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Re: Korean Brinksmanship

Post by Econoline »

X3
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
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Gob
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Re: Korean Brinksmanship

Post by Gob »

X4
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

dgs49
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Re: Korean Brinksmanship

Post by dgs49 »

Point by Thomas Sowell on this today (I think): The Obama Administration has announced that it will respond "proportionately" to any NK aggression.

Proportionately? How about grossly disproportionately? They kill one of ours and we kill a hundred of them. And let them know in advance so no one is surprised when it happens.

Proportionately? Does a cop react proporationately when someone tries to hit him? Fuck no! He responds violently so that there will be no more of it.

Just a thought.

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Rick
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Re: Korean Brinksmanship

Post by Rick »

NK is just the point the PRC is the rest of the stick...
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is

oldr_n_wsr
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Re: Korean Brinksmanship

Post by oldr_n_wsr »

Don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

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dales
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Re: Korean Brinksmanship

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keld feldspar wrote:NK is just the point the PRC is the rest of the stick...
You are absolutely correct.

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


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Lord Jim
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Re: Korean Brinksmanship

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NK is just the point the PRC is the rest of the stick...
It depends on how one interprets that...

There's very little we can be certain of in this situation, but one thing I think we can be reasonably sure of, is that the North Koreans are not behaving the way they are at the behest of the PRC, as part of some cunning plan hatched in Beijing to provoke a military confrontation with the West....

Aside from the fact that this would make no rational sense from their own self-interest, (for reasons I've laid out in earlier posts...the thugs who run the Thugocracy of the PRC, like the thugs who ran the Thugocracy of the USSR may be thugs, but they're not irrational) if this is what they had in mind, they'd be rallying to North Korea's side, and trying to blame the US and it's allies for provoking the crisis...and making military counter-moves of their own...

None of this is happening....
Point by Thomas Sowell on this today (I think): The Obama Administration has announced that it will respond "proportionately" to any NK aggression.
I read about this in yesterday's NYT, and it seems to me that is precisely the posture we should be taking....

One should put this in an historical context...

The doctrine of "Proportional Response" represents a far more robust policy of response than the previous policy that was pursued for decades by both ourselves and the South Koreans, (going back to at least the seizure of the USS Pueblo in the late 1960's) where North Korean provocations (no matter how outrageous) were met with, "no response"....

They have violated the DMZ on numerous occasions with provocative forays, once tried to shoot down a plane with the South Korean president on board, kidnapped South Korean nationals, shelled South Korean Islands, and sank a South Korean ship, killing 46...(that last led directly to the election of the current SK government that has made clear it will not allow that sort of thing to go unanswered)

All without having payed any price whatsoever....(at least in terms of military strikes; yes they're dealing with some economic sanctions, but when you couldn't care less about the well being of your people, and when your people are in no position to rise up against you, that doesn't count for much)

So, "proportional response" represents a definite improvement...that alone might teach them a lesson...(remember; neither we nor the South Koreans have any more desire or interest in seeing NK completely unravel than the Chinese do..nobody in this equation wants to take ownership of that basket case.)

And if we were to go to a completely "disproportional response", depending on the nature of the provocation, we could unnecessary invite a wider conflict, where the PRC might feel compelled to weigh in...and neither they nor we want that....

A lot also depends on the scenario, and the nature and extent of the provocation...

Say they fire a medium range missile, and we know by tracking its trajectory that its going to land harmlessly in the ocean...

Then probably no military response is required...

If it looks like that missile might make landfall in Japan, or Guam, or any US territory or that of any US ally, then we should shoot it down, and also take out their launching facilities....

If they open fire in a limited way on some South Korean target, then we (or the South Koreans backed up with US support) should bomb the source of the fire and take it out....(and maybe any other military capability in the immediate vicinity)

On the other hand, if this guy is really nuts enough, (and his military commanders, who would be tasked with following out his orders, are nuts enough) to launch a full out artillery and rocket strike against Seoul as part of some sort of Götterdämmerung type attack against the South, then NK will get a "disproportionate response" which will include the termination of the regime in Pyongyang...

And the Chinese would accept it, because they'd realize that under that scenario, we had no other option, and they wouldn't go to war over it...
Last edited by Lord Jim on Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Rick
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Re: Korean Brinksmanship

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... story.html
“It seems to me that we need to be clearer with China as to what our expectations are, because this is a danger to them,” Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.) said at the hearing. “I think that is particularly important, given that North Korea relies on China essentially for its economic existence.”

At the White House, spokesman Jay Carney welcomed Chinese President Xi Jinping’s oblique warning last weekend that “no one should be allowed to throw the region, even the whole world, into chaos for selfish gains,” a statement the administration has said was directed at Pyongyang.

“We have absolutely been consulting with the Chinese about the need to use their influence on the North Koreans,” Carney said. “We’ve also been in discussions with Moscow about this.”

He said those conversations will continue when Secretary of State John F. Kerry visits Beijing this week.

China experts expressed skepticism about what Washington can reasonably expect from Beijing, noting that many administrations have been unable to coax North Korea’s most important ally to exert greater pressure on Pyongyang.

“Successive administrations come into office and convince themselves they can solve the North Korea problem,” said Andrew Scobell of the Rand Corp. “Successive administrations have been sorely disappointed with what China is able to deliver.”
The PRC may play their hand close to the vest but they are certainly in the game...

"Norks" :lol:
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is

rubato
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Re: Korean Brinksmanship

Post by rubato »

I don't know why we aren't doing more to communicate directly with the people and the middle-leadership in N. Korea.


yrs,
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dales
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Re: Korean Brinksmanship

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Dennis Rodman could've done much more.

Nixxon introduced "ping-pong diplomacy" dealing with Red China 40 years ago.

Since little fat man in Pyangyong is a BB devotee, it was up to Rodman to cultivate this fact.

He failed to do so to his everlasting shame.

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


yrs,
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Lord Jim
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Re: Korean Brinksmanship

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I don't know why we aren't doing more to communicate directly with the people and the middle-leadership in N. Korea.
And how exactly are we supposed to that? Send planes over dropping leaflets?

Take another look at that night satellite shot of North Korea...

And what gives you the idea that there's something that qualifies as a "middle-leadership" in that country? You figure there's a frustrated, educated middle class just champing at the bit to overthrow the regime if we give them a little encouragement?

The question you ask seems to evince a deep lack of knowledge and naïveté about the conditions there...

The answer to the first part of your question is, "because it would be pointless", and the answer to the second part of your question is, "because no such group exists."...

Glad I could clear that up....
Last edited by Lord Jim on Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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dales
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Re: Korean Brinksmanship

Post by dales »

For your edification, rube:


Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


yrs,
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Lord Jim
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Re: Korean Brinksmanship

Post by Lord Jim »

I've always loved the "five holes-in-one the first time he played golf" bit about the Dear Leader...

With those kinds of mad skills, he should have chucked the whole Absolute Dictator Of A Tiny Country thing, and gone on The PGA Tour...

He could have brought a lot more revenue back to his country, and also been the greatest professional golfer of all time...

Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods are a couple of loser also rans compared to him....
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