In the blood

[oldr_n_wsr]

Don't the parents have a similar viewpoint as the 17yo?

[Lord Jim]

They probably do oldr, (that's likely why the kid is taking this attitude)

I was just positing a hypothetical, in response to Big RR's comments about making a decision like this.

[oldr_n_wsr]

They probably do oldr, (that's likely why the kid is taking this attitude)

I was just positing a hypothetical, in response to Big RR's comments about making a decision like this.

Understood. We take care of our kids too even if mine are not "kids" anymore (23 and 27 and will turn 24 and 28 this year).

[Big RR]

Jim--yes I would; part of me would want to control my kid, whether they were a few months short of 18 or in their 60s, but part of me would also have to realize that it is their life, not mine. It's kind of like having your kid join the service and go to Afghanistan (or Iraq); you could increase his/her chances of surviving greatly by keeping him out of the service, but ultimately it would have to be your child's, not your, choice (I had to face that with my younger daughter, who thought about joining the marines and delaying college for a while; I preferred that she did not (and she ultimately opted to go to college) but I told her I would support her in whatever decision she made, and meant it. Children are not our property, nor can we protect them forever--we have to let them decide things on their won, right or wrong, smart or stupid.

And FWIW, if I had a kid suffering with little chance of recovering (and frankly, we don't know if this kid was actually suffering, but I'd bet he was), I think I would rather the kid die than live in constant torment. If we had a pet in the same position we would put them out of their misery, but somehow we fear death so much that some would prefer seeing a loved living one in torment rather than letting them go gently into that good night.

[Lord Jim]

Well, we're certainly never going to agree on this one, Big RR....

I would never be able to live with myself if I had a child die when I knew there were decisions I could have made that might have saved their life, regardless of what their wishes were. I would be overwhelmed with guilt and shame.

[rubato]

My wife hates having JW obstetrical patients. It's one thing to do something stupid which endangers your own life but its another to force someone else to go along with you and help you do it. And take a risk that only a stupid person wold take.

yrs,
rubato

[Big RR]

Jim--I understand your point, and I agree it wouldn't be easy, but I still maintain that we cannot control our children in the way you describe (whether we'd want to or not). Indeed, I doubt you would even want to exercise such control all the time, but only in cases where you think they are not making a decision you could support/agree with; somehow I'd bet you'd let them join the military to fight an invader, or become a law enforcement officer, even though keeping them away from such professions would enhance their chances of survival, or a decision to keep them out of it would possibly save their lives. Hell, not letting them drive or ride in a car would do the same.

Yes, it would be very hard to live with the knowledge that I could have done something to save my child's life; but I maintain it would also be very hard to live with the knowledge that I had stemmed their development by telling them I should always make decisions for them. Where we disagree, I believe, is which would be more difficult to live with.