Replacing Pipes and Water Heater - your thoughts required...

[Joe Guy]

Along with repiping my house I'm Considering a Tankless Water Heater.

Would I be tankful for a tankless?

Would like to hear pros & Cons & your experience with Tankless water heaters. I am preparing to re-pipe my house with copper piping. Right now it takes about 10 or more minutes to get hot water in the kitchen sink and about 15 to get hot water in the bathroom.

My current gas hot water heater is in a separate garage from the house and that's why the heat comes slowly.

Would the water be delivered hot any sooner with a tankless heater if it is placed in the same spot as the old one?

I am not replacing the pipes just for the instant heat. That is an afterthought. The current pipes are galavanized steel and have been installed for at least 50 years. There is no damage but I am looking to the future and plan to stay here for quite a while.

Thanks to everyone for any and all ideas you can think of (as in things to expect and to watch out for)

Thank you all very much.... grin

[Jarlaxle]

If the pipe run is the same, you will not get hot water any faster. Might be a few seconds slower, actually, since the tankless heater will need to start up. You really should consider relocating your water heater and/or rerouting pipes. 15 minutes is ludicrous.

[Crackpot]

instead of going for copper you might want to try going for a PEX manifold. separate run for each line so no needless routing through extra pipe the PEX doesn't take near the energy to "warm up" so you get rapid heat and you also don't get pressure drops when other faucets are used (or toilets flushing). Would second Jarl on moving the Heater though

[liberty]

If someone is going to have a gas powered water heated I believe it is a goods ides, for safety, to have it in a separate building even though I have never known one to cause a problem. But the potential for bad things is there.

[Daisy]

We call them a combi boiler here, and pretty much all of them are in the house - mostly in the kitchen.

We're considering replacing our 20 year old boiler and tank arrangement in the next 12 months. As long as they're serviced annually (like all gas appliances) and you have a carbon monoxide detector there should be no safety issues.

[Crackpot]

If someone is going to have a gas powered water heated I believe it is a goods ides, for safety, to have it in a separate building even though I have never known one to cause a problem. But the potential for bad things is there.

might as well put your furnace, stove and dryer in another building as well

[dales]

The market is red hot on the SF Peninsula, unload this albatross and find different lodgings.

[Rick]

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appl ... ers-ov.htm

You may actually want to talk to a plumber. I do know plumbing code dictates locations due to safety especially with gas water heaters. However it may be a matter of larger piping or even adding a new unit to reduce the distance the water has to travel.

My knowledge (even though more in the realm of science fiction) on this matter is now exhausted...

[liberty]

If someone is going to have a gas powered water heated I believe it is a goods ides, for safety, to have it in a separate building even though I have never known one to cause a problem. But the potential for bad things is there.

might as well put your furnace, stove and dryer in another building as well

That is true, that is why I don’t have use gas. If I did it would be in separate building as much as possible. Remember Murphy’s law.

[Jarlaxle]

Do you also have no electricity? I suspect you are at a far higher risk of an electrical fire than a gas leak! Also note: gas is cheaper. Whatever you are heating, gas is cheaper!

[oldr_n_wsr]

Rather than a water heater, you might want to look into an "on demand" system. I have zero knowledge, but have heard of them. Basically it heats the water right at the tap being used.

[Crackpot]

That would be a tankless water heater oldr.

[oldr_n_wsr]

But these are stationed at each faucet rather than in a distant local (like a basement or garage).
Of course I might have read previous posts incorrectly and misunderstood what was being said. Ain't the first time won't be the last.

[Econoline]

If getting hot water faster is your concern, you might also want to consider a hybrid water heater--basically a tankless heater with a small buffer tank so that there is no delay when you turn on the faucet.

But whatever you do you'll have to move the heater closer to the demand. (If space is a problem, a tankless or hybrid heater might be easier to fit.) I'm sure whoever did it had their reasons, but I've lived with gas water heaters all my life and I've never heard of putting one in a separate building.

oldr - it sounds like what you're thinking of is a system with several (presumably smaller) tankless water heaters, and I would guess that that would be pretty expensive.

[Crackpot]

I have heard tha two heaters are required for most houses but that was years ago tech may have improved.

[Econoline]

I have heard tha two heaters are required for most houses but that was years ago tech may have improved.

It would probably depend on the size of the house and the layout of the plumbing system. Tankless heaters and their installation are already more expensive than conventional ones, and any way you look at it buying two of anything is more expensive than buying one.

If the pipe run is the same, you will not get hot water any faster. Might be a few seconds slower, actually, since the tankless heater will need to start up. You really should consider relocating your water heater and/or rerouting pipes. 15 minutes is ludicrous.

Good advice.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Nice info can be found here
http://homerepair.about.com/od/plumbing ... ss_hwh.htm

Which Type of Tankless Water Heater to Use
There are two basic types of tankless water heaters, Point of Use and Whole House. The type you select is based upon your intended use. And your intended use will have even more to do with the cost of these units.

Point of Use Tankless Water Heater
I have a point of use water heater under my kitchen sink. It creates 170 degree F hot water instantly and I love the fact that I can get a cup of tea anytime I want (like now as I'm writing this). The point of use tankless water heater is relatively small and will usually fit inside a sink cabinet or in a closet. They are typically dedicated use heaters meaning the unit serves one sink / faucet or one shower, etc.

Point of use tankless water heaters are less expensive than whole house units and cost around a few hundred dollars for the unit (without installation).

Whole House Tankless Water Heater
Whole house units mean that they have higher GPM flow rate capacity and can handle demand for more than one fixture at a time. For example a unit may handle two shower fixtures at one time or a dishwasher, kitchen sink and lavatory hot water faucet at one time. Why the different number of fixtures? Because different fixtures use different amounts of water. Some shower heads can use six times more water than a bathroom lavatory faucet.
So the size and number of whole house tankless water heaters you need will be largely driven by flow rate and that is determined by the number and types of fixtures you may have running at one time. And the worst culprits are shower heads. That's why you may need more than one whole house tankless water heater hooked up in parallel to meet your hot water demands, especially for simultaneous shower usage.

Whole house units are much more expensive than point of use units and cost from several hundred to several thousand dollars (without installation).

I was thinking Point of Use types.

[Joe Guy]

Oh well.....

My house is being re-piped as I typingly speak. There is a large crew of people working under around and in my house and they say the job will be done by the end of today. The inspection will need to be on Monday, so the job will not be technically complete until then.

Did I ever tell you why I chose now to do this? Please bear with me if this is a rerun.

It's Redwood City's recent new unfair and ridiculous law that is forcing the issue.

I have a water well on my property and the water is used solely for watering the garden. It is independent of the city water and not connected in any way to those pipes and faucets inside or out of the house.

A couple years back the geniuses who manage my city decided that everyone with a well will now need to have a valve installed to prevent city water from being contaminated by well water. The cost of permits to do the work would be $200.00 and the average cost to have the work done would be about $500.00.

I explained to the Public Works guy and a couple City leaders how there is no way my well water could contaminate city water. I asked for an exemption and/or if there is an appeal process.

I was told "No. Even though you your water is not connected to the public's water it could accidentally be connected."

I asked how that could happen and was told someone working on my plumbing could make a mistake that would cause a cross connection.

I didn't bother asking how that could happen since the City inspector would be required to approve and inspect any plumbing work that I do.

Anyway, to make a long story shorter, I asked a lawyer if the City could legally make me do this and he showed me the State law and city ordinance that says that they can.

The city has since said they will wave all permit fees if the work is done before January 2014.

I decided to replace all water pipes and have the same company install the 'backflow prevention valve' since they would already would need to work on the area near the water meter that the valve is required to be so the price should be minimal for the valve installation - which it is.

What's my point?

I guess it's that sometimes we have to do stupid things just because the government has a right to make us do some stupid things.

Meanwhile, I still hear banging, clinking, sawing, pounding and occasional chatter from the workers.

I hope I survive this. At least I'll have new water pipes.

Whoopeee!!

[Guinevere]

I have a whole house tankless water heater and I love it. It's incredibly economical as efficient. The swede likes it so much he is going to install one at his ski chalet. Did you decide to install one?

[Joe Guy]

Each plumbing company I had come out to the house said they didn't recommend a tankless water heater. One plumber said they break down too much. Another said they aren't very energy efficient. Another said they cost too much and don't last any longer than a tank water heater.

So, I'm staying with the tank for now.