Union Holding SF Bay Area Hostage

[dgs49]

The fundamental point remains: It is insane to give collective bargaining rights (i.e., the right to strike) to government employees, and especially those government employees who have the ability to bring great hardship to the general population with a strike or work slowdown.

It is a crystal-clear example of the disastrous unintended consequences of misguided liberal policies intended to "do good" at the public's expense. The people who passed the enabling legislation wanted to be "fair" to the transit workers; and what better way to be "fair" than to grant them the right to bargain collectively and to strike?

The point is not whether their wages and benefits are disproportionate. On the surface they don't seem excessive. But there is no private sector equivalent to a public sector job. There is no private sector job where you can go a lifetime with essentially no threat of being fired for incompetence or unwillingness to perform. There is no private sector job where you have "vacation" and "sick time" as a combined and undifferentiated pile of paid time off, where you can use them interchangeably, literally any time you feel like it, and GET PAID FOR YOUR UN-USED SICK TIME WHEN YOU RETIRE. This is nuts.

In summary, California has the government it deserves. It elected generations of governments who gave away the store. And yet even today, they continue to elect people with exactly the same philosophies. I sympathize with the Republicans who tried to prevent this sort of thing, but as for everyone else...

[Scooter]

Of course those who bemoan the existence of public sector unions choose to forget what life was like before they came into being. Public sector jobs were doled out as political favours, without any regard for qualifications or experience or competence. If you were the nephew of the friend of a newly elected politician, that meant you got a public sector job, and if the guy who was already doing the job was better than you, tough shit for him. Same deal when it came time for promotions, salary increases, etc. That is the sort of nonsense that public sector unions were formed to stop, and that is precisely why they are still needed.

[Jarlaxle]

Are you actually naive enough to think that doesnt still happen?!?!

[dgs49]

My dearest Scooter person, the phenomenon you describe as nothing whatsoever to do with collective bargaining. It is referred to as the Spoils System, and it continues apace in most municipal governments in the U.S., in spite of ubiquitous denials - even while examples of nepotism and cronyism are constantly shown.

A sociologist, I believe his name was Emile Durkheim, envisioned a new paradigm, which he called "Bureaucracy," in which hiring and promotion would be on merit alone, management would be hierarchical, decisionmaking above board, and so on. While "bureaucracy" has gotten a bad name, and has become associated with the Government Run-around, it remains the model of government/management.

The idea that unions killed the Spoils System is pretty ridiculous, actually.

[Scooter]

My dearest Scooter person, the phenomenon you describe as nothing whatsoever to do with collective bargaining.

Of course it doesn't. That's why collective agreements set out strict rules about when, how and why people are hired, fired, promoted and given raises, because none of that provides any protection whatsoever against employers, including governments, who would wish to make those decisions arbitrarily. That's why unions are so intent on increasing their power, and why anti-union forces are so dead set against them, because none of what they do makes any difference to anyone.

A sociologist, I believe his name was Emile Durkheim, envisioned a new paradigm, which he called "Bureaucracy," in which hiring and promotion would be on merit alone, management would be hierarchical, decisionmaking [sic] above board, and so on. While "bureaucracy" has gotten a bad name, and has become associated with the Government Run-around, it remains the model of government/management.

Dave, Dave, Dave.

This is what I love best about you, that it is at those times when you are trying your best to pass yourself off as knowledgeable that your abject ignorance about, well, everything, shines through the brightest.

Emile Durkheim was a sociologist, about that you were correct. The rest sounds like a sign that you need to see a doctor about those recurring LSD flashbacks. Durkheim was a theorist, who never wrote a word about anything as practical as public administration. The term "bureaucracy" was coined by the economist Jacques Claude Marie Vincent de Gournay, who used it pejoratively. Max Weber was a sociologist who took up the term to describe a system of public administration by unelected professionals, but he never purported to be "envisioning" anything "new".

You really need to pull your head out of your ass once in a while and breathe some oxygen.

[dgs49]

I was thinking of Weber. Long time ago.

Still, your point is absurd. The idea the public employee unions ensure that only competent people will be hired is preposterous. They are more involved in cronyism than the politicians.

[Scooter]

I was thinking of Weber. Long time ago.

And even if you substitute Weber in the statement you made, it remains bullshit.

But please do keep trying. There is so little that manages to amuse me these days, I have to get my laughs wherever I can.

[Lord Jim]

After a four and a half day shutdown a month ago, the spoiled brats are at it again:

BART Strike Deadline Update: Talks Go Down to the Wire, Again

Update: 2 p.m. Sunday, Aug. 4: The unions' midnight strike deadline remains in place, and negotiations continue.

The main news as we move toward the deadline for a second BART strike in five weeks is ... that there's very little to report. BART management and the agency's two biggest unions continue negotiations at Caltrans District Four headquarters in downtown Oakland. And if you're looking for positive news, well, it's good everyone's still talking.

There was one media flurry early this afternoon. The BART chapter of SEIU Local 1021 and Local 1555 of the Amalgamated Transit Union put out word that they'd hold a press conference at 1:30 p.m. in Oakland. That drew a crowd of media. But just before the appointed time, an SEIU representative appeared, apologized for the inconvenience, and canceled the press event. KQED's Alex Emslie said a groan went up from the crowd of reporters, some of whom asked whether the cancellation was a good sign. All the union rep had to say was, "We're working diligently."

http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2013/08/0 ... ire-again/

[Andrew D]

The anti-BART-union editorials are, to put it mildly, misguided. The truth of the matter is that BART does not give a shit about the physical safety of its employees, is rolling in dough, and does not want to pay its employees even enough to keep up with the cost of living.

What about physical safety? It's not just about money:

... the unions have demanded that BART add safety improvements, including bullet-proof glass in station booths and better lighting in tunnels. ... Union members pointed to ... more than 100 physical assaults on BART employees .... The unions have also said that workers have risked their lives and been killed because of poor lighting in tunnels.

And as to the money:

Despite increases in the cost of living, BART employees haven't received a raise in five years. ... BART's offer falls below cost of living increases.

* * *

... average base salary for both station agents and full time train operators is around $56,000 a year. ... [In the SF Bay Area,] a family of four needed about $74,341 to get by in 2011 ....

* * *

... BART ... had a revenue surplus this year.

* * *

[Gob]

... the unions have demanded that BART add safety improvements, including bullet-proof glass in station booths ...

Only in America... ok and Somalia....

[oldr_n_wsr]

Is BART a private company?
Is OSHA checking out the safety concerns?
I haven't had a raise in a few years. the company I now work for is cutting back so I don't expect them to be "giving". I'm happy I am working.
There were many years in my career when raises were slim/non existant.

Does every surplus a company makes supposed to go to it's employees?

[dales]

BART unionized employees are leeches, eventually they will kill the host.

[Jarlaxle]

They don't care, as long as the checks clear first.

BART is Exhibit A why public employees should not be permitted to unionize!