Tipping: U.S., Europe, and "Cruise"

[dgs49]

I recently got back from a 10-day Baltic Cruise, during which I got into more than one conversation with other passengers on the topic of tipping.

Tipping is a rather poignant subject on cruises for a number of reasons, some of which are as follows:

• Tipping is customary in the U.S., but not so much in Europe; the cruises are mainly populated by so-called “Americans,” but in this case, the cruise took place entirely in Europe.
• Cruises, despite all claims to the contrary, are expensive propositions. All BS aside, you are probably paying at least couple hundred bucks a day, per person (which includes all meals).
• The cruise lines do their best to require you to pay a “tip” of $5-10 dollars per day, per person, to the cruise staff, at the end of the cruise, mainly for the benefit of the cleaning people and the servers at the various restaurants – who invariably do a fantastic job(!).
• The cruise lines (and various third-party companies) sponsor shore excursions at essentially every port. The excursions are ridiculously expensive (typically, $100 per person for a 4-hour bus tour of the local city). The cruise lines and excursion companies “suggest” a “tip” of 10% for the tour guide and 5% for the driver of the tour bus.
• When you buy a drink on a Cruise, they automatically add 15% to the price of the drink as a “tip,” then they have a space marked for “Additional Tip” at the bottom of the chit that you sign for your drink (you don’t pay cash for anything on board ship; it is all charged to your ship ID card, which is, in turn, charged to your designated credit card).

So in total, if a couple of travelers were to do all of the tipping “recommended” during a 10-day cruise, they could easily roll up a thousand dollars in “tips.”

And again, keep in mind that this all takes place in Europe, where tipping is not customary. My assumption is that tipping is not normal in Europe because waiters and such are paid what we in the U.S. would refer to as a “living wage,” and they don’t have to rely on tips to supplement their wages. The prices in restaurants over there certainly support my assumption. I know nothing about the wages of Cruise staff; they are probably “not much” by U.S. or European standards, which might explain why there are NO Americans or western Europeans among those actually doing any work on a Cruise ship. But “not much” is probably a nice wage for a Philippino or Dominican or Indian.

Traditionally, tipping in the U.S. has been reserved for specific types of jobs that involve direct customer services – jobs like waiter/waitress, cab driver, bell-hop, and so on. It is so much a part of the economic culture in the U.S. that it is incorporated into federal wage and hour laws. Specifically, such employment is not subject to minimum wage laws and these employees invariably make quite a bit less than minimum wage, on the theory that with the addition of tip income, they will make at least MW. Indeed, in recent years, employers have been required to add presumed tip income to the employees’ reported wages (W-2), to ensure that Uncle Sam get his taste of the tip income (they under-estimate the tip income in all cases, so it’s not as bad as it could be).

Parenthetically, an odious new custom has arisen at Starbuck’s and similar businesses in the U.S.; the placement of a “Tip jar” at the counter, to solicit tips for preparing the refreshments behind the counter. But this is bullshit, because the “baristas” ARE beneficiaries of the MW laws, so their incomes do not require supplementation through tip income.

But getting back to Cruises, they are NOT PART OF THE U.S. ECONOMIC system. If the Cruise line is not adequately compensating their employees, it shouldn’t be the concern or obligation of Cruise passengers to supplement staff income, as they are already paying a king’s ransom for the cruise. And that goes in spades for the excursion staff. If I and 39 other Cruisers are already paying $100 each for a four-hour bus ride (that’s a thousand dollars an hour if you’re counting), there should be no need to supplement the wages of the tour guide or driver – that’s the excursion provider’s responsibility.

However, my impression was that a fairly significant number of the American (and Canadian) travelers either deviously or blatantly minimized their tip outlays wherever possible. On the excursions they would bail out one stop early from the end and walk or bus back to the ship, or leave the tour bus from the back door, so that they wouldn’t have to “say goodbye” to the tour guide or driver. I presume they minimized their tips to the cruise staff as well, which was possible if you went out of your way to do it.

It was also noteworthy that at least one of our tour guides seemed a bit uncomfortable with the whole tipping thing. Our guide in Berlin (six hour excursion, $250/person) simply said good-bye and walked away from the bus at the end of the tour. (He was raised behind the so-called “Iron Curtain,” so maybe that had something to do with it). I had 40 Euro in my pocket for him, but…

As I think I’ve written here before, as far as I’m concerned, unless service is truly extraordinary, the only appropriate circumstance for tipping is when being served by someone who is not subject to MW. My “baseline” tip is 1/7 of the bill – more for great service, less for substandard service. Otherwise, the price I’m paying for the service or food is all the compensation I’m obliged to provide. If the baristas of the world have a problem with their wages, they need to find another job. Maybe in their next life they won’t major in Mass Communications.

Tipping does have a benefit. It incentivizes service providers to provide prompt, cheerful services. If they were paid a Living Wage regardless, who knows what would happen to the quality of service? Cruises are a peculiar case, made more peculiar because of a couple of unknowns. How much of my “tip” goes directly to the person who cleaned my room (or is the tip money pooled and distributed to everybody on the ship)? Are they paid adequately without the tip revenue? It used to be that you always sat at the same table in the restaurant on a cruise, so that you got to know your servers. At least you had the belief that your tip went to those particular people, to recognize their service. Now, it doesn’t seem to be that way anymore.

[Big RR]

I recall reading an article that said that NCL, which charges a "voluntary" service charge per person (apparently you can get it reduced, but you'll get a runaround) was taking at least part the money paid in tips on its Hawaii cruises and using it to pay for wages and benefits for cruise employees (apparently they had a lot of US employees because it is in the US). I'm not sure if this changed after the truth came out, but this is not tipping as I understand it, it's charging an additional amount for the cruise after a lower fare was advertised.

[Daisy]

P&O had tipping included in the price and the bar bills, but staff got tips based on how well they scored in satisfaction surveys.

I didn't like this way of tipping, I preferred Thompson Cruises where you tipped cash individually to people and teams whenever you saw fit.

Our P&O cabin steward even had to declare the box of chocolates we gave him for Christmas!

[dgs49]

Without any really substantive complaints, I think I'll scratch Norwegian off my list for the next cruise.

It's headquartered in Miami; and it shows.

[rubato]

We tip in cash on cruises. I like to know where the money is going. Everyone at our dinner table last cruise did the same.

yrs,
rubato

[Big RR]

From what I've read, on many cruise lines the employees are required (including NCL using them for benefits).

[MajGenl.Meade]

on many cruise lines the employees are required

I think that's a good idea Big RR. Saves a lot of that annoying self-catering and bed-making

[Big RR]

Meade--Thanks for pointing out the last part of my post was dropped; I meant to say "required to turn in any and all tips (including cash) that are received which are then pooled and distributed to the employees and/or used by the company (presumably) on their behalf".

But you are right, there are work and maritime rules that require employees.

[dgs49]

Then this confirms my suspicion that Norwegian is unethically undercompensating its employees, and trying to extort additional compensation from the passengers. This is bullshit. They should charge what they require to compensate their employees, and tips should be to reward extraordinary service. If some employees are not in a position to receive tips, their compensation should be higher.

Lord knows, we pay enough for the (fucking) cruises.

[rubato]

dgs has suddenly and unaccountably forgotten how capitalism works and that he is fiercely opposed to any minimum wage ?


Head injury? Religious transformation? Will he next show some small pleasure in life? Will he have a pleasant social interaction to share with us?

And some say that people never change!


yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

Meade--Thanks for pointing out the last part of my post was dropped; I meant to say "required to turn in any and all tips (including cash) that are received which are then pooled and distributed to the employees and/or used by the company (presumably) on their behalf".

But you are right, there are work and maritime rules that require employees.

And the IRS has a rule, a very strict rule, that tips must all be reported as regular income which I expect is equally scrupulously followed.

yrs,
rubato

[Gob]

I still fail to see the attracton of a cruise. Each to their own I suppose.

[Lord Jim]

Yes I suppose you're right...

You don't see the attraction of staying in comfortable accommodations with a huge variety of meal choices, numerous excursion activities, (like snorkeling, scuba diving, lots of local options, etc.) on board activities, parties and entertainment (live music reviews, comedy, and multiple night clubs featuring a wide range of music) multiple pools and hot tubs, spa facilities and a casino, all at you beck and call, with no need to drive anywhere or plan ahead...

And I don't see the attraction of climbing slowly for hours, hand over hand up the side of a cliff with death looming beneath me, just one small mistake away...

Go figure...

I guess it takes all kinds to make a world...

[Sean]

There are actually child minding facilities on a cruise ship too so you don't need to have that bothersome baby strapped to your back the whole time.

[Gob]

Yes I suppose you're right...

You don't see the attraction of staying in comfortable accommodations with a huge variety of meal choices, numerous excursion activities, (like snorkeling, scuba diving, lots of local options, etc.) on board activities, parties and entertainment (live music reviews, comedy, and multiple night clubs featuring a wide range of music) multiple pools and hot tubs, spa facilities and a casino, all at you beck and call, with no need to drive anywhere or plan ahead...

My idea of hell Jim.

And I don't see the attraction of climbing slowly for hours, hand over hand up the side of a cliff with death looming beneath me, just one small mistake away...

Go figure...

As I say, each to their own eh? Give me this;


or this;



over this;


any time

[rubato]

I've done both. Each has its own pleasures.


I started climbing at Lily Rock (aka Taquitz Rock) and Joshua Tree back in the early 70s. And have camped and hiked in the Sierras, San Bernardino Mountains, San Jacinto, Cascades, Death Valley. Anza-Borrego desert.


I had always been prejudiced against cruises until my wife prevailed on me to think about an Alaska Cruise. Pretty amazing trip(s). We also took a cruise across the N. Atlantic from England-Belgium-Norway-Faroe Islands-two stops in Iceland-Greenland-Newfoundland- St Pierre and Miquelon- Nueva York. Great experiences all of them but I like being on the ocean and enjoy the way the ship moves. In the last trip the staff said it was the worst weather they had ever seen in terms of waves and ship movement. I often had the jogging track all to myself as spray froze on the railings and the surface pitched up so I was walking uphill and then down so I was running down a slope, a little corkscrewing thrown in to keep it interesting, but I loved it. The time onshore is too brief but you get a sense of where you'd want to come back to on different terms.


We had an incredible day in the Faroe Islands and met a very nice Faroese who showed us the islands.

Much of SE Alaska is impossible to see any other way and if you take advantage of the small plane trips to see the glaciers you see even more. Sitka is known (according to their website) as "the Paris of the Pacific". Or maybe that was back in the 1800s ? Stunningly beautiful and even more so when you arrive by boat.




We always opt for the 'traditional dining' so you are seated with the same people each night. And we always go for the 2nd seating partly because in the N. lattitudes the sun is up until 11pm and partly because it gives us time for a nap after the shore excursions. On the whole we've met really nice and interesting people and enjoyed their company immensely. A rice farmer and family from Arkansas, an extended family from Sacramento, A couple from Pleasanton Ca., the former registrar from UCLA and her husband, a retired lawyer, a nice couple from Canada; a Dr and his RN wife, and a nice couple from LA a real estate developer and his wife, an artist both were avid birders and told us about the birds following the ship. There has only been 1 couple who were ah not great company and they self-selected out of the group for a lot of dinners.


yrs,
rubato

[Big RR]

To each his own; I personally can't stand cruises (no matter how big the ship is, I still feel trapped on it), but my wife likes them, so I've been on a few. I guess it depends what you really like to do on vacation; I like to get out and do things, not play bingo in the lido lounge or sit by poolside sipping overpriced, watered down drinks. And when I visit a place, I like to explore it on my own, not be crammed into a bus with 30 others and spend half the time at the souvenir shops (I'm sure some excursions are different, but I've never been on one). However, for the people who like them, however, cruises can be great fun, and for the people who only want to see the highlights of a place, a cruise excursion can be a good way to cram them into a shorter itinerary. For those who have never been on one, it's worth a try, but if it weren't for my wife, I'd never set foot on one of those pleasure barges again (now if I could charter a yacht and have it go where/and stay there as long as I wanted and stay, that might be different).

[dgs49]

So...the question is, how do you want to experience a place, given the limitations of time and money that virtually all people have?

For example, it is said that to experience the Louvre takes at least a month. Paris, another month. The rest of France, another month.

But you have a couple thousand dollars to spend and a nine-day vacation "week" (counting both weekends), and you want to see "France."

I gave the Louvre 2 hours, and Paris four days, and that was plenty. Give me 8 hours and a HOHO ticket, and I'll discover everything I need to know about just about anyplace.

[Big RR]

That's exactly why I like to explore on my own; my schedule and interests are probably different from yours (or anyone else's for that matter) and vice versa. There are places I can rapidly proceed through, and others I'd want to spend much time at (including certain museums). I may not see "everything", but I'll get the most out of what I do see. I'd certainly never try to see a country as big as France in a week/9 days--I'd rather choose one or two places and concentrate on them.

[Gob]

So...the question is, how do you want to experience a place, given the limitations of time and money that virtually all American people have?
.

Fixed that for you Dave. In 2 weeks time Hen and I will be having a 7 week holiday, 6 of which will be spent in the UK, (and 1 recovering.)