This May Finally End This Sorry Show...

[Lord Jim]

Congress approves bill to end partial shutdown, raise debt ceiling

The House voted Wednesday to approve a short-term bill ending the partial government shutdown and raising the debt ceiling, sending the deal to the president’s desk and capping one of the most bitter and brutal political fights in recent memory.

The bill cleared the House on a 285-144 vote, lifted over the finish line by a large chunk of Democrats. All House Democrats voted in favor of the bill and 87 Republicans did as well. 144 Republicans voted against it.

The Senate, where the plan originated, earlier voted 81-18 for the bill.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10 ... -block-it/

Still waiting on Obama's signature...

Don't imagine it's going to be a very fancy signing ceremony at 12:30 AM Eastern Time...

[liberty]

Jim please be patient and explain to be me why ending foreign aids would be foolhardy for us?

Okay Lib, I'll go through the math with you on this...

[Just as I did when The Traitor Snowden revealed that we were only paying a comparable amount...about 52 billion dollars a year, for all of our intelligence agencies, and I had this exchange with Dave:

52 billion out of 3 trillion dollar budget?

Wow, I didn't realize what a good deal we were getting. We should probably increase it.

You consider this a good ROI?

The minority view, I would wager.

In the past 12 years, the country has suffered exactly one significant terrorist attack, (The Boston Marathon Bombing) while dozens have been foiled...

And this record has been achieved at a cost of less than 2% of the federal budget....

Yeah, I consider that an excellent ROI, and if that's a minority view, I'm good with that...

I can't be responsible for the ignorance of the majority...

Lib, I don't think you really understand what's achieved with "foreign aid" nor how small a part of the US budget it represents...[that 50 billion dollar figure doesn't just represent "foreign aid" it represents the entire cost of the State Department...and it's miniscule, when you look at the total budget...]

Of all the things the federal government spends money on, "foreign aid" is an area where we probably get the most bang for the buck...

Unless of course you are a head-in-the-sand neo-isolationist, who believes that the United States can simply walk away from it's role in the world and everyone will leave us alone...

If you believe that, I have a twin tower I'd like to sell you...

Jim, are you willing to pay more taxes?


Read this not, not convinced:

http://www.theguardian.com/global-devel ... n-aid-cuts


I supported foreign only because I thought it was the right thing to do. I don’t believe it makes any difference how these countries feel about us if anything they probably despise us more for doing do it.

[Lord Jim]

I'll give you credit for one thing on this, Lib...

It's not everybody who would include a link that completely undermines their own argument...

The next effective argument that you or anyone else presents for why we ought to eliminate the relative pittance we spend on foreign aid will be the first one I've ever seen...

If you want to be a neo-isolationist conservative you go right ahead; but I consider such views dangerously short sighted and wrong headed...

It's been conclusively demonstrated to you that our foreign aid budget amounts to pennies, but you still talk as though it represents some great tax burden..

I would actually be in favor of increasing foreign aid, provided that we find creative and effective ways to distribute it that don't just go into the pockets of corrupt local officials.

When we help countries develop their economies, and to provide economic opportunity for their people, it's a tremendously cost effective investment in US security. Countries with economic opportunity do not become failed states with large numbers of young men to radicalize.

If you don't see the obvious advantages here versus the cost, (just from a practical national interest standpoint; laying aside the humanitarian aspect) then we're coming from such completely different places in terms of our world view that I don't see much point in continuing this discussion.

[Lord Jim]

I wonder if this will make any impression on the ying yangs who thought the government shutdown was such a grand idea, since so many of them like to beat their chests about trying to "save" the economy....(probably not; that crowd seems to populated by some pretty slow learners...):

Here’s How Much The Government Shutdown Cost The Economy

$24 billion.

That’s according to an estimate from Standard & Poor’s. The financial services company said the shutdown, which ended with a deal late Wednesday night after 16 days, took $24 billion out of the U.S. economy, and reduced projected fourth-quarter GDP growth from 3 percent to 2.4 percent.

Here’s a breakdown of the economic cost from Standard & Poor’s statement:

About $3.1 billion in lost government services, according to the research firm IHS
$152 million per day in lost travel spending, according to the U.S. Travel Association
$76 million per day lost because of National Parks being shut down, according to the National Park Service
$217 million per day in lost federal and contractor wages in the Washington D.C. metropolitan area alone

Hundreds of thousands of federal workers bore the economic brunt of the shutdown. But small businesses also suffered from frozen government contracts and stalled business loans. Tourism suffered from closed national parks, and military families had to cope without childcare and other services. Federal workers will receive back-pay under the deal, but contractors will probably not get their lost wages. The stall in cash-flow could affect spending during the holiday shopping season.

And with the deal only guaranteeing government funding through Jan. 15, the situation could grow worse. “The short turnaround for politicians to negotiate some sort of lasting deal will likely weigh on consumer confidence, especially among government workers that were furloughed,” Standard & Poor’s said.

Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2013/10/17/he ... z2hzpFK6iW

[dgs49]

Baloney.

I can't believe that a person who claims to be a "conservative" would post such tripe.

Only in California.

[Scooter]

As usual, the facts contradict whatever Dave says while talking out of his ass, ergo the facts must be wrong.

[Lord Jim]

Baloney.

Yeah right Dave...

Those numbers come from that well known purveyor of commie propaganda, Standard and Poor...

And your source that those numbers are "baloney" would be.....................?

Perhaps the source that Scooter speculates it to be?

[Lord Jim]

I can't believe that a person who claims to be a "conservative" would post such tripe.

Actually Dave as a conservative, and (especially as a Republican) I am embarrassed by the idiots who drove this train wreck...(I'd like to think that John Boehner's strategy of letting these guys see for themselves how badly fucked up an approach this was would teach them something, but I fear that it won't, and that they will continue to be an embarrassment)

The fact of the matter is, if they had just signed off on a short term clean CR and just sit back and let nature take it's course, the cluster fuck of the Obamacare roll out would have been dominating the news, public support for it would probably be down in the low 20s in the polls, and getting a one year extension of the individual mandate might have been a politically attainable goal, (there would have been a lot of pressure from the public, even on Democrats to go along with that) independent of the CR or debt ceiling...

Instead, thanks to their monumental stupidity, despite the roll out fiasco they actually have succeeded in driving support for Obamacare up....

Way to go dudes!

These dopes allowed themselves to be riled up, used and manipulated by a cynical, self-promoting con artist, (a man, who while he is completely unprincipled, is nevertheless far brighter than they)who doesn't give a flying fuck about them, conservatism, the party, or even the country.

[Econoline]

Whatever economic damage the shutdown and the default threat caused, I'm sure the Pee Tardy wingnuts will just blame it all on Obamacare and say "Told you so!"

[Grim Reaper]

Or they'll call it acceptable losses for standing by their principles.

[Lord Jim]

Baloney.

I can't believe that a person who claims to be a "conservative" would post such tripe.

Only in California.

Baloney.

Yeah right Dave...

Those numbers come from that well known purveyor of commie propaganda, Standard and Poor...

And your source that those numbers are "baloney" would be.....................?

Perhaps the source that Scooter speculates it to be?

I'd still like to see the source you have proving those numbers to be "baloney", Dave....

Unless of course the source is the one Scooter suggested it might be...

If that's the source, I believe I can speak for the entire board when I say please don't post a picture of that source...

[Scooter]

Apparently it's the same source that told him that tar sands oil is too costly to refine to be worth buying.