The pope visits the UK ...

[thestoat]

... but should the UK tax payer pay towards the costs? I'm just wondering what your feelings are on this?

[dales]

In the interest of good will, yes.

Same as any other head of state.

[Big RR]

dales--I resume you mean "state" along the lines of the smaller principalities--Lichtenstein, Andorra, San Marino. The Vatican would be the state with the smallest population and probably area as well.

Stoat--if there is a benefit to the country the pope is visitng, then I think taxpayers footing the bill is appropriate. If not, I fail to see why they should. IMHO it's like the mayor of a small town visiting than a real head of state.

[thestoat]

Hmmm. Interesting. Of course we do supposedly have a secular society. When heads of state visit the tax payers pay because there is an implicit aim of more trade, closer ties, etc. I don't see that as an aim with the pope.

[Gob]

Not a penny should we pay.

The pope has a church history of thousands of years of ripping off the poor and stupid to fund his life style behind him, let the poor and stupid who want to see the pedophile supporter and ex-nazi pay for him.

Dougal: God, I've heard about those cults Ted. People dressing up in black and saying Our Lord's going to come back and save us all.
Ted: No, Dougal, that's us. That's Catholicism.
Dougal: Oh right.

Ted: I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do. Whereas priests......More drink!


Father Dougal McGuire: I've never met a celebrity before.
Father Ted Crilly: You met the Pope.
Father Dougal McGuire: Did I?
Father Ted Crilly: Yes, do you not remember that time we were in Rome?
Father Dougal McGuire: That was the Pope? That old fella living in the art gallery?
Father Ted Crilly: The Vatican, Dougal! The Vatican!
Father Dougal McGuire: Still, he's not a celebrity in the true sense of the word.
Father Ted Crilly: He's God's representative on Earth, Dougal!
Father Dougal McGuire: You'd think he'd be taller.
Father Ted Crilly: You mean, like a giant?

[tyro]

I bet David Ben Ariel is right on top of this.

Just think of it. Not just any Godless pope, but a German Godless pope (we had best go easy on the pedophile part lest someone brings up W.H. Bonehead), is going to visit one of the unwitting lost tribes.

Either mayhem or hilarity is sure to ensue.


On the other hand, maybe he wants to deliver King Henry VIII’s divorce papers personally.

[thestoat]

That was the Pope? That old fella living in the art gallery?

Love it

[loCAtek]

He was formally invited by the PM, so it's a state visit.

At 71.6%, the UK is mostly a Christian country.

[Big RR]

Does a formal invitation by the head of the government (and not the head of state incidentally, which is the monarch) automatically make a visit a state visit? I don't think so; indeed, I think it is only a state visit when a head of state (or his/her representative) travels to a country at the invitation of that country's head of state; otherwise, it is just an official visit, as ti was when BP execs came to Washington to confer with Obama. The pope is the head of a religion; I think we would be straining to call him a head of state (although I don't know the UK position on this; I think the US has formal relations with the Vatican (although I don't know why) and recognizes it as a foreign state).

[oldr_n_wsr]

The US citizens tax dollars funded the 15 day middle east trip of the Imam who is trying to build the mosque near the WTC's.
Tell the pope he can stay at my house.

[Big RR]

That seems pretty strange, oldr--do you have a link for it?

edited to add: Sorry, I should have checked first; he is travelling on an official state department vist to reach out to moderate moslems and talk about islam in America and relgious tolerance. Apparently this is not his first trip; if it tomes things down even a bit, it's worth the money.

[dales]

Oh, we can pick and choose "what's worth the money", how convenient.

[loCAtek]

Everything I can find says this is an Official State Visit. without going into the details.

[Sean]

Dougal: God, I've heard about those cults Ted. People dressing up in black and saying Our Lord's going to come back and save us all.
Ted: No, Dougal, that's us. That's Catholicism.
Dougal: Oh right.

Ted: I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do. Whereas priests......More drink!


Father Dougal McGuire: I've never met a celebrity before.
Father Ted Crilly: You met the Pope.
Father Dougal McGuire: Did I?
Father Ted Crilly: Yes, do you not remember that time we were in Rome?
Father Dougal McGuire: That was the Pope? That old fella living in the art gallery?
Father Ted Crilly: The Vatican, Dougal! The Vatican!
Father Dougal McGuire: Still, he's not a celebrity in the true sense of the word.
Father Ted Crilly: He's God's representative on Earth, Dougal!
Father Dougal McGuire: You'd think he'd be taller.
Father Ted Crilly: You mean, like a giant?

Funny on the page but nowhere near as funny as with Ardal O'Hanlon's delivery...

[Gob]

Speaking at a conference for sex abuse survivors in Islington, north London, Dr Margaret Kennedy pointed out that the Pope would travel with the "accolade and dignity" given to a head of state.

But she added: "Sadly we are not afforded the same respect or dignity or status.

"Many survivors have to almost live in fear, shame, guilt because when they report they are made to feel like pariahs, disloyal, aggressive, money grabbing, false allegations and so on.

In a conference room in north London, the 20 people gathered to share their experiences of abuse at the hands of Catholic priests call themselves "survivors".

But there is a clear feeling that for many the ordeal is far from over.

People talk of lives damaged or destroyed and a lack of respect and care for the victims of abuse.

They believe that Church leaders have been long on talk, but short on action.

A case in point is the book they are putting together of the stories of abuse survivors. They want to hand it to the Pope directly, but have been told that won't happen. For many that smacks of the Church trying to limit discussion and exposure of the issue - after years of covering up the abuse in the first place.

"We don't want words anymore from the Vatican, we want action.

"The actions have not happened - concrete, discernible decisions about who is going to care for survivors of clergy abuse.

"What are they going to do to repair our lives?"

Dr Kennedy, who is the founder of Minister And Clergy Sexual Abuse Survivors (MACSAS), said survivors were writing accounts of their own experiences of abuse and messages to the Pope in a book she hoped to present during his visit.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11267301

[tyro]

Some of us have relatives who were made to immigrate.

Those waifs and orphans were rewarded for their lack of family.

They were plucked from England and sent to Canada or Australia.


Children who could tell that they had failed in some way to “belong” ended their lives with a sense of quilt. I would be the same.

Thousands were sent here to be slaves for a short time and then left to make do.

My great grandfather was a home child and so was my wife’s father.

[loCAtek]

...while some were indentured as slaves for generations in their homelands by conquistadors.

Our spirits freed us.



As per other threads: even trying to biologically breed it out of us doesn't work; spirit prevails.

[thestoat]

At 71.6%, the UK is mostly a Christian country.

I don't see why the hobbies of any proportion of the country should influence spending. The UK is a secular state. Further, in a very quick search I found that the figure in the UK is much lower than 71% ...

In most of the countries covered, well over 80% said they believed in God or a higher power. In Nigeria the figure was 100% and in the US 91%, with the UK scoring lowest at 67%.

Found here ...http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/w ... 518375.stm

He was formally invited by the PM, so it's a state visit.

I had no idea! So we are still living with the repercussions of that old fool. Damn. At least we outed him before he could create further damage. (Or should that comment be pushed to the politics section?)

Stoat--if there is a benefit to the country the pope is visitng, then I think taxpayers footing the bill is appropriate. If not, I fail to see why they should. IMHO it's like the mayor of a small town visiting than a real head of state.

I agree with that. But we wouldn't foot the bill if Bill Gates visited, even if there was deemed to be a benefit to the country. And Bill isn't as rich as the Vatican ]

[loCAtek]

Well, interest(majority or non, in this case: majority) should be entertained, if not allowed,

[thestoat]

Well, interest(majority or non, in this case: majority) should be entertained, if not allowed,

I quite agree. I have no objection to majority or minority interest groups being indulged. I just don't believe the tax payer should fund it. And in this case it would have to be minority. Even if we assume there are more than 50% Christians in the UK (and if there are they are certainly not practising their religion in church regularly) there are certainly fewer than 50% Catholics.