The trouble with religion

[RayThom]

I am now totally and completely 'baffled.' Talent on loan from God. Amen.

[Rick]

At least nobody will be able to say why didn't you tell me.

The End

[MajGenl.Meade]

I am now totally and completely 'baffled' blinded

Fixed for you, Ray

[RayThom]

Rightly or wrongly (usually the latter) he would also correct me. He, too, was a pedantic bonehead. Regardless, your constant faultfinding renews the spirit of a dysfunctional parent / child relationship. Thanks, Pop.

BTW -- my father died a miserable death in an assisted living facility at the age of 94. In his self-imposed aloneness I'm sure he was comforted knowing he was right 100% of his life. Yep, a well respected man, he was. I hope you, too, live to 94. Your old age will be my best revenge.

"... And he likes his own backyard and he likes his fags the best 'Cause he's better than the rest and his own sweat smells the best And he hopes to grab his father's loot, when pater passes on..."

God bless you, Meade.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I'm sorry for your problems Ray. You post (about me in a thread I started about religious weirdness) that I'm probably preparing some huge religious tome and say of me "If you can't blind them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit".

Then when I lightheartedly give you an excerpt from a (far from religious) novel I'm writing, you declare yourself "baffled" - thus not-at-all-wittily indicating my writing is bullshit.

But then my gentle riposte that in fact it is brilliant (and thus you must have meant you are blinded by my wit and talent) results in more gratuitous insults.

I did like the Kinks quote though.

Love
Meade

[liberty]

I'm sorry for your problems Ray. You post (about me in a thread I started about religious weirdness) that I'm probably preparing some huge religious tome and say of me "If you can't blind them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit".

Then when I lightheartedly give you an excerpt from a (far from religious) novel I'm writing, you declare yourself "baffled" - thus not-at-all-wittily indicating my writing is bullshit.

But then my gentle riposte that in fact it is brilliant (and thus you must have meant you are blinded by my wit and talent) results in more gratuitous insults.

I did like the Kinks quote though.

Love
Meade

God loves you Meade and that is all that matters in the end.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Perhaps so lib, perhaps so. But the Bible teaches that God loves all people yet not everyone reaches the same end*. So evidently it isn't "all that matters". Maybe I'm wrong in believing that. But I'm sorry for Ray. He is obviously deeply hurt in his relationship with his father yet sounds as if his father's death affected him bitterly. It seems as if he comes into these discussion that I have with (e.g.) Big RR and reveals such pain.

Meade

*I think that's what the Bible teaches, among other things. Perhaps Ray would be the expert and show me the error of my understanding. I doubt it though

[RayThom]

Meade sez, "Perhaps Ray would be the expert and show me the error of my understanding. I doubt it though..."

When I was in school I knew this tactic as "deflection." Regardless, no one can doubt the omnipotent, narcissist always fighting for peer recognition and approval.

MGM, you make this place such a joy for me -- you keep me humble. Thank you. Carry on.

[Econoline]

The trouble with religion?

“The faith passes, so to speak, through a distiller and becomes ideology,” he said. “And ideology does not beckon [people]. In ideologies there is not Jesus: in his tenderness, his love, his meekness. And ideologies are rigid, always. Of every sign: rigid.

“And when a Christian becomes a disciple of the ideology, he has lost the faith: he is no longer a disciple of Jesus, he is a disciple of this attitude of thought… For this reason Jesus said to them: ‘You have taken away the key of knowledge.’ The knowledge of Jesus is transformed into an ideological and also moralistic knowledge, because these close the door with many requirements.”

“The faith becomes ideology and ideology frightens, ideology chases away the people, distances, distances the people and distances of the Church of the people. But it is a serious illness, this of ideological Christians. It is an illness, but it is not new, eh?”

Who said dat???

[rubato]

...
Then when I lightheartedly give you an excerpt from a (far from religious) novel I'm writing, you declare yourself "baffled" - thus not-at-all-wittily indicating my writing is bullshit.

...

Love
Meade

I only read a few lines but it scanned a lot like "Flashman". When I have time I'll go back and actually read it. Maybe.

yrs,
rubato

[Big RR]

Econoline--easy, the current pope recently (I saw an abridged quote in the paper in the paper mentioned "disciples of ideology" straying from the faith) unless he was quoting someone else. there's a lot I don't particularly like about the RC church and its hierarchy, but I'm beginning to like this pope, or at least some of his more vocal views.

edited to add: I now see you gave a link to the answer, so as Emily Litella would say, "Never Mind".

[Econoline]

Yeah, the question was a link to the answer; I just felt that there is enough anti-Catholic or anti-papist prejudice around here that that very sensible statement addressing the very same topic as this thread ought to be read without any preconceptions. I was raised as a Roman Catholic (and could never go back there, for several reasons) but I too have been surprised and impressed by this guy.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I only read a few lines but it scanned a lot like "Flashman". When I have time I'll go back and actually read it. Maybe.

yrs,
rubato

Why rubato - that's the nicest thing you've ever said to me Do you think I should put all 150,000+ words in "All our own work" when it's done?

Here's the opening lines:

I ain’t sentimental as a rule. When you’ve spent as much time as I have away from hearth and home one more wifeless Christmas and New Year shouldn’t come as a surprise. But it did and I was feeling a little aggrieved. Elspeth motored off to Leicester this morning to entrain for London where she plans to spend an indefinite period lord and ladying it with some of our late King Bertie’s hangers-on--a group with which I resolutely refuse to associate--and our parting had been less than amicable1. She of course was full of pouts and pleadings, to demonstrate how much she’d not thought even a little of flirting freely with London’s young society blades, and I was . . . well, truth to tell I expected to enjoy having the house to myself minus its prattling ninny of a mistress. Even so, a bit of husbandly ire always gingers ‘em up for the return match so I struck a pose or two before the Lancaster set off2. And no sooner had it gone, than I found the house was not only quiet and peaceful but also (and quite simply) empty and lonely.



1 Edward VI died in 1910
2 The Vulcan “Lancaster” automobile was first produced in 1910 and offered for sale at 610 pounds sterling

[MajGenl.Meade]

Meade sez, "Perhaps Ray would be the expert and show me the error of my understanding. I doubt it though..."

Hi Ray,

Thanks for the additional gratuitous insults. Hey! I got one for you:

See how he dances / See how he loops from side to side / See how he prances / The way his hooves just seem to glide

Meade

[RayThom]

It's just my opinion -- not a fact. You're way too sensitive. Now, from this thread, I shall take the highroad and bid you adieu.

DIXI

[MajGenl.Meade]

DLTDHYOTAOYWO

[rubato]

I only read a few lines but it scanned a lot like "Flashman". When I have time I'll go back and actually read it. Maybe.

yrs,
rubato

Why rubato - that's the nicest thing you've ever said to me Do you think I should put all 150,000+ words in "All our own work" when it's done?

Here's the opening lines:

I ain’t sentimental as a rule. When you’ve spent as much time as I have away from hearth and home one more wifeless Christmas and New Year shouldn’t come as a surprise. But it did and I was feeling a little aggrieved. Elspeth motored off to Leicester this morning to entrain for London where she plans to spend an indefinite period lord and ladying it with some of our late King Bertie’s hangers-on--a group with which I resolutely refuse to associate--and our parting had been less than amicable1. She of course was full of pouts and pleadings, to demonstrate how much she’d not thought even a little of flirting freely with London’s young society blades, and I was . . . well, truth to tell I expected to enjoy having the house to myself minus its prattling ninny of a mistress. Even so, a bit of husbandly ire always gingers ‘em up for the return match so I struck a pose or two before the Lancaster set off2. And no sooner had it gone, than I found the house was not only quiet and peaceful but also (and quite simply) empty and lonely.



1 Edward VI died in 1910
2 The Vulcan “Lancaster” automobile was first produced in 1910 and offered for sale at 610 pounds sterling

Thanks for the explanatory notes. I was picturing her going off in a Lancaster bomber which would have been decades off and not the same image at all.



yrs,
rubato

[Andrew D]

The trouble with religion?

“The faith passes, so to speak, through a distiller and becomes ideology,” he said. “And ideology does not beckon [people]. In ideologies there is not Jesus: in his tenderness, his love, his meekness. And ideologies are rigid, always. Of every sign: rigid.

“And when a Christian becomes a disciple of the ideology, he has lost the faith: he is no longer a disciple of Jesus, he is a disciple of this attitude of thought… For this reason Jesus said to them: ‘You have taken away the key of knowledge.’ The knowledge of Jesus is transformed into an ideological and also moralistic knowledge, because these close the door with many requirements.”

“The faith becomes ideology and ideology frightens, ideology chases away the people, distances, distances the people and distances of the Church of the people. But it is a serious illness, this of ideological Christians. It is an illness, but it is not new, eh?”

Who said dat???

Any bets on how long before he dies "accidentally" or of "natural causes"?

[Econoline]

"Natural causes" = "John Paul I syndrome"?

Though he *IS*, after all, a Jesuit; I have a feeling that he might have a bit more of a personal support/defense network and a lot more intelligence (both meanings of that word) than some give him credit for...

Time will tell...but in the meantime I'm more optimistic about the RC church now than I've been in decades. (Okay, okay, I admit that's not saying much...)