As shown here, the numbers of enrollments -- as of this writing; the data appear to be updated frequently -- in both private insurance plans and Medicaid are soaring. And they are soaring faster in private insurance plans then in Medicaid.
There is a crucial difference between to the two relevant data sets. The figures for the first thirty-three days of the rollout (1 October through 2 November) include applications and enrollments, whereas the figures for the eighth week (which has just ended) include only actual enrollments. Therefore, the difference between actual enrollments during the first thirty-three days and actual enrollments during the eighth week are actually much higher than the figures shown by the following comparisons.
But even if one ignores that difference -- as I have no choice but to do, given the differences between the two relevant data sets -- the increases in participation in the Affordable Care Act are still stupendous:
On average, 2.31 times as many people per day actually enrolled in Medicaid during the eighth week (27,417) than applied for or enrolled in Medicaid during the first thirty-three days (11,887).
On average 2.64 times as many people per day actually enrolled in private insurance plans during the eighth week (8,517) than applied for or enrolled in private insurance plans during the first thirty-three days (3,232).
Despite the poor rollout, these two portions of the Affordable Care Act -- which do not even take into account the benefits which the ACA has already provided to tens of millions of Americans -- are roaring ahead. And the future looks even brighter.
The Republicans were right: They needed to nip the ACA in the bud, because the more Americans see what it will do for them, the better they like it.
The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
Last edited by Andrew D on Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.
Re: The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
For Jims perusal
A surge of from 3000 to 8000? Amounting to barely over 3% of what is needed? You have got to be kidding. And I'm the one that's been calling for a wait and see approach. You're just making a fool out of yourself if you're going to go around trumpeting an improvement of apocalyptically dismal numbers to merely castestrophically dismal numbers.Andrew D wrote:As shown here, the numbers of enrollments -- as of this writing; the data appear to be updated frequently -- in both private insurance plans and Medicaid are soaring. And they are soaring faster in private insurance plans then in Medicaid.
There is a crucial difference between to the two relevant data sets. The figures for the first thirty-three days of the rollout (1 October through 2 November) include applications and enrollments, whereas the figures for the eighth week (which has just ended) include only actual enrollments. Therefore, the difference between actual enrollments during the first thirty-three days and actual enrollments during the eighth week are actually much higher than the figures shown by the following comparisons.
But even if one ignores that difference -- as I have no choice but to do, given the differences between the two relevant data sets -- the increases in participation in the Affordable Care Act are still stupendous:
On average, 2.31 times as many people per day actually enrolled in Medicaid during the eighth week (27,417) than applied for or enrolled in Medicaid during the first thirty-three days (11,887).
On average 2.64 times as many people actually enrolled in private insurance plans during the eighth week (8,517) than applied for or enrolled in private insurance plans during the first thirty-three days (3,232).
Despite the poor rollout, these two portions of the Affordable Care Act -- which do not even take into account the benefits which the ACA has already provided to tens of millions of Americans -- are roaring ahead. And the future looks even brighter.
The Republicans were right: They needed to nip the ACA in the bud, because the more Americans see what it will do for them, the better they like it.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
Re: The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
Wow, that's just about the most blatantly propagandistic interpretation of those numbers I can imagine....that analysis has more spin than a Pulsar...
The first thing I notice is that of the 62,000 increase in enrollments week 8 over week seven, more than half (about 37,000) comes from two states: Washington, whose enrollment more than doubles, and New York who reports about a 70% increase which suggests there may have been reporting issues in those states earlier.
And this:
Month to month so far, there were at about 106,000 sign ups in October and it looks like an additional 122,000 thus far through November, (with only a few days left)
Yeah that's an improvement, but it's sure as hell nothing to write home about, it's marginal at best. It just means the Administration will avoid the embarrassment of having month two numbers that are even worse than month one...
And even if you took this incredibly rosy scenario with the 62K increase in one week as the new standard, you still wind up way short of the 7 million needed by March 31st.
As I've said all along, this thing can still turn around; but there's certainly nothing here to indicate that it has yet.
The first thing I notice is that of the 62,000 increase in enrollments week 8 over week seven, more than half (about 37,000) comes from two states: Washington, whose enrollment more than doubles, and New York who reports about a 70% increase which suggests there may have been reporting issues in those states earlier.
And this:
Is simply false. The application figures were always higher than anything reported on this spread sheet; these numbers reflect actual enrollments (paid or not) that are being reported, and have done so since the very beginning.The figures for the first thirty-three days of the rollout (1 October through 2 November) include applications and enrollments, whereas the figures for the eighth week (which has just ended) include only actual enrollments.
Month to month so far, there were at about 106,000 sign ups in October and it looks like an additional 122,000 thus far through November, (with only a few days left)
Yeah that's an improvement, but it's sure as hell nothing to write home about, it's marginal at best. It just means the Administration will avoid the embarrassment of having month two numbers that are even worse than month one...
And even if you took this incredibly rosy scenario with the 62K increase in one week as the new standard, you still wind up way short of the 7 million needed by March 31st.
As I've said all along, this thing can still turn around; but there's certainly nothing here to indicate that it has yet.
I'd say that sums it up precisely.A surge of from 3000 to 8000? Amounting to barely over 3% of what is needed? You have got to be kidding. And I'm the one that's been calling for a wait and see approach. You're just making a fool out of yourself if you're going to go around trumpeting an improvement of apocalyptically dismal numbers to merely castestrophically dismal numbers.
Last edited by Lord Jim on Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:14 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
Republicans are still reeling from one of the most horrifically stupid legislative agendas in history so they are desperate to shift attention elsewhere. Hence the hysterical lying about Obamacare.
The baseline measurement of a social policy is: "Is it better, worse, or the same as before". To date it is far better, accelerating in the right direction, and months to go before the end of the signup period.
yrs,
rubato
The baseline measurement of a social policy is: "Is it better, worse, or the same as before". To date it is far better, accelerating in the right direction, and months to go before the end of the signup period.
http://economistsview.typepad.com/econo ... -come.html
Obamacare can work:
California, Here We Come?, by Paul Krugman, Commentary, NY Times: It goes without saying that the rollout of Obamacare was an epic disaster. But what kind of disaster was it? Was it a failure of management, messing up the initial implementation of a fundamentally sound policy? Or was it a demonstration that the Affordable Care Act is inherently unworkable? ...
Well, your wish is granted. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you California.
Now, California isn’t the only place where Obamacare is looking pretty good. A number of states that are running their own online health exchanges instead of relying on HealthCare.gov are doing well. ...
California is, however, an especially useful test case. First of all, it’s huge: if a system can work for 38 million people, it can work for America as a whole. Also, it’s hard to argue that California has had any special advantages other than that of having a government that actually wants to help the uninsured. ...
For one thing, enrollment is surging. ... To work as planned, health reform has to produce a balanced risk pool — that is, it must sign up young, healthy Americans as well as their older, less healthy compatriots. And so far, so good: in October, 22.5 percent of California enrollees were between the ages of 18 and 34, slightly above that group’s share of the population.
What we have in California, then, is a proof of concept. Yes, Obamacare is workable — in fact, done right, it works just fine.
The bad news, of course, is that most Americans aren’t lucky enough to live in states in which Obamacare has, in fact, been done right. They’re stuck either with HealthCare.gov or with one of the state exchanges, like Oregon’s, that have similar or worse problems. Will they ever get to experience successful health reform?
The answer is, probably yes. ...
There will also probably be growing use of workarounds — for example, encouraging people to go directly to insurers. This will temporarily defeat one of the purposes of the exchanges, which was to make price comparisons easy, but it will be good enough as a short-term patch. And one shouldn’t forget that the insurance industry has a big financial stake in the success of Obamacare, and will soon be pitching in with big efforts to sign people up.
Again, Obamacare’s rollout was a disaster. But in California we can see what health reform will look like, beyond the glitches. And it’s going to work.
yrs,
rubato
Re: The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
Much ado about nothing.
The botched rollout of the ACA signup website is nothing more than a footnote to the substantive shortcomings of this bill. A year from now, no one will remember or care how it started.
What they will notice is that people who are actually gainfully employed and paying for their own insurance (either directly or through their employers) are paying substantially more for coverage that is substantially less satisfactory than they were before.
There are people on the margins who are getting a fantastic deal now, but everyone else is getting screwed. One can only hope they will remember who it was that screwed them.
The Krugman quote is priceless, admitting that the Plan requires that young, healthy people who actually don't need insurance be convinced to buy it in massive numbers to supplement everyone else.
The botched rollout of the ACA signup website is nothing more than a footnote to the substantive shortcomings of this bill. A year from now, no one will remember or care how it started.
What they will notice is that people who are actually gainfully employed and paying for their own insurance (either directly or through their employers) are paying substantially more for coverage that is substantially less satisfactory than they were before.
There are people on the margins who are getting a fantastic deal now, but everyone else is getting screwed. One can only hope they will remember who it was that screwed them.
The Krugman quote is priceless, admitting that the Plan requires that young, healthy people who actually don't need insurance be convinced to buy it in massive numbers to supplement everyone else.
Re: The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
Well, not entirely true, although if they are not the victims of serious disease, they might perceive it to be that way. And that perception is something the administration should be poised to deal with.What they will notice is that people who are actually gainfully employed and paying for their own insurance (either directly or through their employers) are paying substantially more for coverage that is substantially less satisfactory than they were before.
The Krugman quote is priceless, admitting that the Plan requires that young, healthy people who actually don't need insurance be convinced to buy it in massive numbers to supplement everyone else.
Priceless? I don't see that; but timeless, definitely. Indeed, this is why employer's group insurance is cheaper than individual policies--because most of those who pay for it (either directly and/or indirectly as you noted) will not get the amount they paid in back. There's simply no other way insurance can work.
Re: The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
Contrary to Lord Jim's ravings, here is what the website says:
IMPORTANT: Data prior to the 11/13/13 HHS Dept. report includes Applications; data after that only includes actual enrollments.
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.
Re: The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
When Romney care -- let's not forget that the individual mandate was a Republican idea -- started in Massachusetts, "Just 123 people signed up during the Bay State's first month of open enrollment."Crackpot wrote:A surge of from 3000 to 8000? Amounting to barely over 3% of what is needed? You have got to be kidding. And I'm the one that's been calling for a wait and see approach. You're just making a fool out of yourself if you're going to go around trumpeting an improvement of apocalyptically dismal numbers to merely castestrophically dismal numbers.
From 2006 to 2010, the uninsured rate in Massachusetts dropped to 5.6%.
And it is now down to 3.9%.
Massachusett's version of the Affordable Health Care Act has worked, despite a miserable rollout. And the US's Affordable Care Act will work, despite a far less miserable rollout.
And that's what the Republicans are afraid of.
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.
Re: The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
The WHOLE POINT of the individual mandate is to spread the costs. If that's news to anyone, they haven't been paying attention. And it has worked in Massachusetts. As Andrew points out, we have the fewest uninsured in the country, AND we one of the highest standards of living. And my health care costs have not gone up in any appreciable way for the last couple of years. Neither have the costs for many clients -- and those same clients were able to give higher COLAs in bargaining because HC costs did not escalate as projected, or backfill budgetary holes (balanced budgets are required for municipalities in MA, so no funny math required).
Hmmmmmmm, gee, imagine that. Good healthcare for all AND economic prosperity. It IS possible -- the President isn't a liar -- but let the damn thing work before you start torpedoing it.
Hmmmmmmm, gee, imagine that. Good healthcare for all AND economic prosperity. It IS possible -- the President isn't a liar -- but let the damn thing work before you start torpedoing it.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Re: The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
I have added left out words to the opening posting: The Medicaid figures are explicitly averages per day; the private insurance figures are likewise, although I left the words out, per day averages.
But that really doesn't matter.
Let's just do the math of people enrolling in private insurance plans pursuant to the Affordable Care Act.
(There is still the difference between applications and enrollments, but even without that difference, the figures are so huge that even though they would be greater if we included that difference, we can do the right-wingers a favor by throwing that difference overboard.)
During the first 4.7 weeks of the rollout, the weekly average was 22,714.
During the next 2.3 weeks, the weekly average was 25,774.
During the eighth week, the weekly average was 56,919.
From the first 4.7 weeks to the next 2.3 weeks, the weekly average rose by 13.47%.
From those 2.3 weeks to the eighth week, the weekly average rose by 120.83%.
If you cannot see the steeply accelerating curve between an increase in weekly average of 13.47% and an increase in weekly average of 120.83%, I don't know what else to tell you.
But that really doesn't matter.
Let's just do the math of people enrolling in private insurance plans pursuant to the Affordable Care Act.
(There is still the difference between applications and enrollments, but even without that difference, the figures are so huge that even though they would be greater if we included that difference, we can do the right-wingers a favor by throwing that difference overboard.)
During the first 4.7 weeks of the rollout, the weekly average was 22,714.
During the next 2.3 weeks, the weekly average was 25,774.
During the eighth week, the weekly average was 56,919.
From the first 4.7 weeks to the next 2.3 weeks, the weekly average rose by 13.47%.
From those 2.3 weeks to the eighth week, the weekly average rose by 120.83%.
If you cannot see the steeply accelerating curve between an increase in weekly average of 13.47% and an increase in weekly average of 120.83%, I don't know what else to tell you.
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.
Re: The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
Okay, we're going to have a little math session here...
(Rube, you're excused; there's a finger painting session in room 207 just down the hall you can join)
According to this spread sheet, (and let me say that I have no reason to believe that these numbers have been compiled by anyone with an agenda; read honestly they appear to be accurate; even though we have a couple of folks here who seem to be determined to interpret them dishonestly...like the old saying goes, "figures don't lie, but liars figure"...)
Well, the total number on this spread sheet uses November 19th as the base line...(however they are honest enough to admit that some of the numbers have been updated since then, so it's really a rolling total)
But to make life easy, let's just use the totals, and apply them to the 19th of November...
And compare it to the calendar...
So through the 19th of November, we have roughly 228,000 enrollments (again, this is enrolled, not actually paid...but to look at this in the best possible light, let's assume the completely ridiculous rate of 100% payment on paid enrollments)
So how many days does that leave us with between Nov. 19th and March 31st?
Well let's see:
November: 11 days
December: 31 days
January: 31 days
February: 28 days
March: 31 days
Please feel free to check my math; I make that a total of 132 days...
So let's assume that there really was a "surge" between week seven and week eight, (and that a lot of that can't be accounted for by prior accounting errors in Washington state and New York state)
How many days does that leave us till March 31st, 2014, by which time, (which by the Administration's own numbers there must be 7 million paid enrollees or all their premium numbers go out the window...without even getting into the fact that 2.7 million of that seven million need to be "young and healthy" sign ups...)
Again, I make that 132 days...
At the rate of 62k and change per week, (let's go even further and make it an even 63k since that makes the math easier, since 63 divides evenly by seven)
63K per week, equals 9,000 per day...
9000 per day, times 132, equals one million, one hundred and eighty eight thousand...
Plus 228,000 of course...
For a grand total of 1,416,000...
I wasn't a math major, (in fact I haven't taken a math course since my junior year in High School) but I believe I can still work out that 1,416,000 is considerably less than seven million...
So, what is the daily average enrollment level needed to hit the Administration's numbers?
Well, I think I've been able to work that out...(I don't believe even algebra is required; just basic addition, subtraction, multiplication and division....)
7,000,000 is the number that needs to be hit...
Less 228,000...
Leaves : 6,772,000
Divided by 132, equals:
51,303 per day( plus a fraction)....
So 63 thousand a week, ain't gonna cut it...
Not even close...
But as I've said, I think this can still be done...
But you have to assume that the next month, with the holiday season, is also going to be pretty weak...
The way this works, (if it does) is that in the last three months starting after the first of the year, the website is finally kicking in, and then the insurance industry starts their advertising, and you're able to get 90-95% of the numbers you need for it to work (they're at 3.2% now...that they could reach 10% by January 1st is wildly optimistic...) in the final three months of the open enrollment...
That can certainly happen...it's not beyond the realm of possibility...
But anyone who thinks that the results to date show this thing as a success, must be partying with Rob Ford....
(Rube, you're excused; there's a finger painting session in room 207 just down the hall you can join)
According to this spread sheet, (and let me say that I have no reason to believe that these numbers have been compiled by anyone with an agenda; read honestly they appear to be accurate; even though we have a couple of folks here who seem to be determined to interpret them dishonestly...like the old saying goes, "figures don't lie, but liars figure"...)
Well, the total number on this spread sheet uses November 19th as the base line...(however they are honest enough to admit that some of the numbers have been updated since then, so it's really a rolling total)
But to make life easy, let's just use the totals, and apply them to the 19th of November...
And compare it to the calendar...
So through the 19th of November, we have roughly 228,000 enrollments (again, this is enrolled, not actually paid...but to look at this in the best possible light, let's assume the completely ridiculous rate of 100% payment on paid enrollments)
So how many days does that leave us with between Nov. 19th and March 31st?
Well let's see:
November: 11 days
December: 31 days
January: 31 days
February: 28 days
March: 31 days
Please feel free to check my math; I make that a total of 132 days...
So let's assume that there really was a "surge" between week seven and week eight, (and that a lot of that can't be accounted for by prior accounting errors in Washington state and New York state)
How many days does that leave us till March 31st, 2014, by which time, (which by the Administration's own numbers there must be 7 million paid enrollees or all their premium numbers go out the window...without even getting into the fact that 2.7 million of that seven million need to be "young and healthy" sign ups...)
Again, I make that 132 days...
At the rate of 62k and change per week, (let's go even further and make it an even 63k since that makes the math easier, since 63 divides evenly by seven)
63K per week, equals 9,000 per day...
9000 per day, times 132, equals one million, one hundred and eighty eight thousand...
Plus 228,000 of course...
For a grand total of 1,416,000...
I wasn't a math major, (in fact I haven't taken a math course since my junior year in High School) but I believe I can still work out that 1,416,000 is considerably less than seven million...
So, what is the daily average enrollment level needed to hit the Administration's numbers?
Well, I think I've been able to work that out...(I don't believe even algebra is required; just basic addition, subtraction, multiplication and division....)
7,000,000 is the number that needs to be hit...
Less 228,000...
Leaves : 6,772,000
Divided by 132, equals:
51,303 per day( plus a fraction)....
So 63 thousand a week, ain't gonna cut it...
Not even close...
But as I've said, I think this can still be done...
But you have to assume that the next month, with the holiday season, is also going to be pretty weak...
The way this works, (if it does) is that in the last three months starting after the first of the year, the website is finally kicking in, and then the insurance industry starts their advertising, and you're able to get 90-95% of the numbers you need for it to work (they're at 3.2% now...that they could reach 10% by January 1st is wildly optimistic...) in the final three months of the open enrollment...
That can certainly happen...it's not beyond the realm of possibility...
But anyone who thinks that the results to date show this thing as a success, must be partying with Rob Ford....
Last edited by Lord Jim on Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:56 am, edited 4 times in total.
Re: The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
Lord Jim called my extrapolation of the data "blatantly propagandistic". That would be true of Lord Jim's latest spewing, but only if "propagandistic" includes incompetent.
Unsurprisingly, he has no evident grasp of accelerating curves.
Of course, he can't tell 19 from 13, so what else should one expect?
Unsurprisingly, he has no evident grasp of accelerating curves.
Of course, he can't tell 19 from 13, so what else should one expect?
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.
Re: The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
"What did you do in the fight to get healthcare for everyone, Daddy?"
"Well I was rooting for the other side and spreading lies, trying to tear down anyone who tried to keep poor folks from dying of treatable diseases ."
Ah yup.
"Well I was rooting for the other side and spreading lies, trying to tear down anyone who tried to keep poor folks from dying of treatable diseases ."
Ah yup.
Re: The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
That's you're response to my detailed analysis? Really?...
You should have taken my advice and gone to the finger painting room...
You might have embarrassed yourself a little bit less...
You should have taken my advice and gone to the finger painting room...
You might have embarrassed yourself a little bit less...
Re: The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
Perhaps before presuming lecture us on the mathematics of the Affordable Care Act rollout, mathematics which he plainly does not understand, Lord Jim should bother to acquaint himself with the data on which he claims to rely.
The spreadsheet does not "use[] November 19th as [its] baseline". The spreadsheet uses data from a Health and Human Services report dated November 13th, not November 19th, with some data updated through November 18th and some data updated through November 25th. And the November 13th report covers the period 1 October - 2 November.
Because of Lord Jim's failure to recognize the time period actually covered by the HHS report, all of his arithmetic conclusions are wrong. And that does not even take into account his utter failure to grasp accelerating curves.
He belongs in the room he recommended to rubato.
The spreadsheet does not "use[] November 19th as [its] baseline". The spreadsheet uses data from a Health and Human Services report dated November 13th, not November 19th, with some data updated through November 18th and some data updated through November 25th. And the November 13th report covers the period 1 October - 2 November.
Because of Lord Jim's failure to recognize the time period actually covered by the HHS report, all of his arithmetic conclusions are wrong. And that does not even take into account his utter failure to grasp accelerating curves.
He belongs in the room he recommended to rubato.
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.
Re: The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
"detailed analysis"
Hah! Not intelligent enough to warrant a response. Pure crap. You've failed so often and so spectacularly in every debate on science that you are not worth a mention.
What matters is that the ACA is moving, at an accelerating rate, in the right direction. The enrollment goals were those imposed by the WH on themselves. Having ambitious goals is a good thing. It is the act of an administration who has confidence in themselves and in the country as a whole and who is trying to do great things to improve the quality of life for its citizens. If the goal is not met the sky does not fall and we are not ruined; we simply have more left to do. But the country is still far better off with 3 million more insured than -0- or a reduction; which is the Republican plan.
BTW Bohner is signed up with a very good plan; for a 64-year old heavy smoker. Maybe the emphysema explains his lack of leadership?
yrs,
rubato
Hah! Not intelligent enough to warrant a response. Pure crap. You've failed so often and so spectacularly in every debate on science that you are not worth a mention.
What matters is that the ACA is moving, at an accelerating rate, in the right direction. The enrollment goals were those imposed by the WH on themselves. Having ambitious goals is a good thing. It is the act of an administration who has confidence in themselves and in the country as a whole and who is trying to do great things to improve the quality of life for its citizens. If the goal is not met the sky does not fall and we are not ruined; we simply have more left to do. But the country is still far better off with 3 million more insured than -0- or a reduction; which is the Republican plan.
BTW Bohner is signed up with a very good plan; for a 64-year old heavy smoker. Maybe the emphysema explains his lack of leadership?
yrs,
rubato
Re: The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
Hah! Not intelligent enough to warrant a response. Pure crap. You've failed so often and so spectacularly in every debate on science that you are not worth a mention.
LMAO!!!
Actually I'm going to save that rube, it will be such an appropriate response for me to drop in as a follow up to so many of your posts...It'll save me a lot of keystrokes...
Now go have yourself another bowl of leaded rice "Mr. Science"....
Or perhaps in the spirit of the season:
I want to thank you for that rube..
I've got a lot of errands to run today, and I'll be chuckling for hours thanks to you...
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oldr_n_wsr
- Posts: 10838
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Re: The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
I wonder what the breakdown of those enrolling are people who previously did NOT have insurance versus people who had insurance but were informed their old plan was being canceled. I would bet most people signing up are those whose plans were canceled as people who had insurance are more likely to want to (or need to) continue being covered.
ETA
I know the first thing I did when I got laid off, even before applying for UI or looking for a new job, was checking out how to enroll in COBRA.
ETA
I know the first thing I did when I got laid off, even before applying for UI or looking for a new job, was checking out how to enroll in COBRA.
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Econoline
- Posts: 9607
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:25 pm
- Location: DeKalb, Illinois...out amidst the corn, soybeans, and Republicans
Re: The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
This might help:
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
— God @The Tweet of God
— God @The Tweet of God
Re: The Affordable Care Act Surges Forward
Crackpot:
You quoted one of my postings so that Lord Jim could respond to it.
How about quoting my responses to him so that he can confront them?
You quoted one of my postings so that Lord Jim could respond to it.
How about quoting my responses to him so that he can confront them?
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.