Santa vs St Nick

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Santa vs St Nick

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

rubato wrote:So far there has been only the usual mindless crap. No one has had the wit or intelligence to respond to the substance because it is patently obvious that lying to children is wrong and teaching a superstitious and magical world view is wrong. And no one has had the ability to argue it.

So the reversion into the usual personal insults and mental garbage.

yrs,
rubato

I responded to the substance without insults or mental garbage and argued againsts your view. Are you interested in responding with substance or just ego tripping?

(LJ - there's no need for you to answer, thanks - I got it already)
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Joe Guy
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Re: Santa vs St Nick

Post by Joe Guy »

rubato wrote:So far there has been only the usual mindless crap. No one has had the wit or intelligence to respond to the substance because it is patently obvious that lying to children is wrong and teaching a superstitious and magical world view is wrong. And no one has had the ability to argue it.
I don't know of anyone who was brought up to believe in Santa Claus that has anything other than great memories of being a child on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day.

It would be helpful if someone could show me a graph that indicates the percentage of children that were severely mentally damaged by their belief in Santa Claus.

Big RR
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Re: Santa vs St Nick

Post by Big RR »

A number of us responded that way Meade; no insults, nothing but raising points that contradict his position.

Joe Guy--I've heard of no one damged either--except the axe murderer in Silent Night, Deadly Night (aka Slay Ride). :D

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Re: Santa vs St Nick

Post by Beer Sponge »

oldr_n_wsr wrote:Of course there is a Santa Claus. The problem most people have is they look for Santa in his sleigh flying through the sky or coming down the chimney or putting presents under the tree and in the stockings. One will never spot Santa that way. The only way you will see Santa is when you look inside yourself and find that child who sees the world with wonder and amazement. You will see him in the love and caring you give to family and friends and even strangers who need a helping hand. You will see him in the people who give of themselves at homeless shelters and animal shelters and anywhere a helping hand is needed. If you ask my kids if there is a Santa (my son is 28 and my daughter is 24) they will say yes, Santa is everywhere.

What sad world it would be if people didn't believe in Santa Claus.

What oldr said. I grew up believing in Santa Claus, and have come to learn that Santa exists in almost all of us. It would be a sad childhood for one who did not have parents that cared enough to instill a belief that goodness exists.
Personally, I don’t believe in bros before hoes, or hoes before bros. There needs to be a balance. A homie-hoe-stasis, if you will.

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Re: Santa vs St Nick

Post by Scooter »

You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see.
"On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux."
(St.-Exupéry, Le petit prince)
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Rick
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Re: Santa vs St Nick

Post by Rick »

When I actually knew there was no Santa I started getting clothes for Christmas.
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is

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Gob
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Re: Santa vs St Nick

Post by Gob »

For centuries Christians have been taught that wise men from the east brought gifts for the baby Jesus.

But, according to polling, one in 10 young adults in Britain now believe that Father Christmas also makes an appearance in the Biblical account of the nativity.

Significant numbers also think that Mary and Joseph might have brightened up the stable with a Christmas tree.

Over a third of the public think that the Bible records December 25 as the date of the Jesus’s birth.

And a quarter appear to have confused the lyrics of “Away in a Manger” with the gospels by believing that the Bible states that Jesus did not cry when he was born.

More than 2,000 people of all ages were polled on their knowledge of the Christmas story to test whether younger generations are becoming increasingly ignorant of religion.

The ComRes survey, conducted on behalf of the Christian Institute, involved giving people a list of elements and asking whether each was included in the Biblical accounts of Christ’s birth.

Overall 87 per cent believed that the Bible says that Jesus was born in a stable – a location at least implied by the gospel of Luke’s account that he was laid in a manger because there was no room at the inn.

Meanwhile 84 per cent said the accounts include three kings or wise men made visiting Jesus. Although the Bible does not quantify the magi, it but does specify three gifts.

Similarly three quarters think the Bible mentions Mary riding a donkey or that the cattle were busy lowing at the time of the birth.

Perhaps more surprisingly one in 20 Britons think that Father Christmas makes an appearance in the Bible – a proportion which rises to 10 per cent among the 25 to 35 age group.

People who work in the public sector – a category which includes teachers – are almost twice as likely as private sector employees to think that Father Christmas features in Scripture.

Similarly seven per cent thought that the Bible makes room for a Christmas tree – an innovation introduced in Victorian times. Among 18 to 34 year old the proportion almost doubles.

Colin Hart, head of the Christian Institute, said: “This poll shows a worrying lack of knowledge about our country’s Christian heritage that has shaped our history, institutions and laws, even who we are and our values.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Re: Santa vs St Nick

Post by Guinevere »

Scooter wrote:
You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see.
"On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux."
(St.-Exupéry, Le petit prince)
Mais oui!
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Re: Santa vs St Nick

Post by Sue U »

I was brought up without Santa Claus or Christmas, and speaking only for myself, I'm pretty certain that my world view isn't any more "functional" or my thinking any more "rational" than anyone else's -- at least, not as a result of a lack of Yuletide myths. Due to the spousal unit, my own kids have been raised with a Santa Claus Christmas, and I can't see that it's actually harmed them. In fact, because we live in a place and time where Christmas has become more of a secular cultural festival than an exclusively religious observance, I think participation has actually helped them feel more connected to the society around them.

I think rubato is right that "people with children are [not] inherently wiser in the matter of child-rearing than those without," which seems to be borne out by the horror stories regularly appearing in the newspapers. However, close proximity to children does give one at least an anecdotal basis for comparison. And having seen the Santa/non-Santa results first-hand (my siblings and their children/grandchildren do not participate), I can't discern any actual difference in ultimate effect.
GAH!

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Re: Santa vs St Nick

Post by Crackpot »

First hand experience is not "anecdotal" while it's true that "your mileage may vary" I know few parents who's pre parenthood beliefs weren't humbled by the reality of parenting.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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Re: Santa vs St Nick

Post by Crackpot »

What gets me isn't that non parents are offering the advice it's the condescending why they declare the solution to those of us in the trenches.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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Re: Santa vs St Nick

Post by Sue U »

Crackpot wrote:What gets me isn't that non parents are offering the advice it's the condescending why they declare the solution to those of us in the trenches.
Don't worry, you'll soon be able tune that out; by your third child, you'll just laugh hysterically.
GAH!

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Re: Santa vs St Nick

Post by rubato »

“Lying is wrong,” Prof. Johnson says. “There are certain reasons when lying becomes acceptable, but being amused by your kids’ naïveté is not one of the justifiable reasons to lie.”

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/pla ... objections
The Santa Claus Lie Debate: Answering Objections
Let's consider some objections to not lying to your kids about Santa Claus.
Published on December 9, 2013 by Dr. David Kyle Johnson, Ph.D. in Plato on Pop
David Kyle Johnson, Ph.D.
This post is a response to Say Goodbye to the Santa Claus Lie by Dr. David Kyle Johnson, Ph.D.


I have taken a stance against the parental habit of lying to children about Santa Claus numerous times (in 2009, 2010 and 2012), and I was recently interviewed regarding my objections to the elf on a shelf. What’s my argument? It’s a lie, it degrades your parental trustworthiness, it encourages credulity, it does not encourage imagination, and it’s equivalent to bribing your kids for good behavior. (If you’d like to see an animated version of such arguments, click here.) Well, ‘tis the season—which means my inbox is filling up with hate mail again. (As you can imagine, my argument generates some vitriol. If blog views are any indication, it’s almost as controversial as gun regulation.) So I thought I would take this opportunity to reply to the most common objections and comments that I see against not telling the Santa Claus lie.

Objection 1: So I guess we're just not supposed to tell our children any stories, let them watch any movies or read any fictional books?

No, I’m saying that when we tell our children stories, we should not lie or trick them into thinking they are literally true. I'm a huge fan of all kinds of fiction, but when my son asks me whether or not Star Wars really happened “a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away,” I'm not going to tell him it did. I'm not even going to tell him it could have. And I’m not going to say that “Luke Skywalker exists as the Jedi in us all.” I'm going to tell him what you would tell him: it's just a story.

I'm simply saying that we should treat the Santa Claus story just like we treat all other stories—as a story. To do otherwise would be to cruelly take advantage of the child's naïveté and possibly hinder his/her intellectual development.


Objection 2: My kids run around the house pretending like they’re superheroes and princesses. So, according to you, I guess I'm just supposed to correct them and tell them they're just ordinary kids?

No. That is just imaginary play and imaginary play is wonderful. As I have pointed out before, a parent who tells the Santa Claus lie does not invite the child to imagine or play like Santa Claus exists, but to believe that he really does. These are two completely different things.

If your son was running around the house with a towel tied around his neck claiming he could fly because he was Superman, you would say "that's great." You know he's just pretending. However, if he climbed out on the roof and started claiming this, you would correct him quite promptly. You don't want him really literally believing that he can fly.

Objection 3: Yep, I guess we should just never lie to our children and introduce them to the dog eat dog nature of the real world and let them be eaten alive as soon as we can.
Find a Therapist

This is just a strawman of my argument—or perhaps a slippery slope objection. Obviously, the fact that certain lies are not okay to tell your children doesn’t mean that it is never okay to lie to them, and the fact that we should tell them the truth about one thing (e.g., Santa) doesn’t mean that we should tell them the truth about everything.

Objection 4: I encourage my children to believe in Santa, and keep them believing for as long as I can, because it makes them happy, just like it made me happy when I was a kid. We all believe in things that don’t really make sense because they make us feel happy and comfortable.

No we don’t. This objection actually helps me make my point. I’ve been struck my how many parents think it’s perfectly fine, even for adults, to believe something is true simply because one wants to—because it’s comforting or fun. And they even admit they think this because this is why they believed the Santa Claus lie as a child. When I say that the Santa Lie encourages credulity, what I mean is that it encourages the formation of belief based on convenience, rather than good reason and evidence. (And the reason I’m concerned about credulity is because of its dangers.) The more hate mail I receive, the more I’m struck by how many adults still have childish belief forming habits—and the more I’m convinced that the Santa Lie is a major contributing factor.

Objection 5: So according to you I'm a terrible parent. Who are you to judge? It's just a matter of parental preference.

No, I'm not saying you are a terrible parent. Whether or not you are a good parent depends on multiple factors, and I have no idea how you size up. And, in all honestly, if you love your kids and do your best, you’re probably a good parent. But not everything is a matter of preference. Some parental practices are worse than others, and if you want to be the best parent you can be, you should probably consider giving up the Santa Claus lie and/or the elf on the shelf.

Objection 6: So I guess my children are supposed to turn out to be idiotic moral monsters? I believed in Santa and I turned out just fine.

No, I'm suggesting that lying to your children about Santa and the elf on the shelf risks stunting their intellectual and/or moral growth. Will it do so necessarily? Of course not. Your children don't take to heart everything you teach them. But it's a risk—one that's not worth taking.

And the fact that you believed in Santa and "turned out fine" is not evidence that doing so is not risky. I did too, and I am the opposite of credulous. But that's just an anecdote; anecdotes are not good evidence. The fact that my grandfather survived WWII doesn't mean serving in WWII wasn't risky. The fact that you didn't carry the habit of credulous thinking encouraged by the Santa Claus lie into adulthood doesn't mean that your children won't.

(And no, I'm not equating the dangers of war with the dangers of the Santa lie. That was just an example to show the shortcomings of anecdotal evidence.)

Objection 7: Why do you want to take Santa out of Christmas? You're ruining all the magic, fun and excitement. And kids needs such things, especially in times like these.

I'm not suggesting that the Santa myth be removed from Christmas. I'm suggesting that we should no longer teach our children to believe it’s literally true. Tell your children you're going to play a game where you pretend that Santa is real—that's plenty magical and fun. And there's plenty of other ways to create magic and fun at the holidays.

Besides, I’m not sure that literally believing the lie is what creates all the fun and excitement—it's more likely the presents. Give your children the choice between (a) believing St. Nicholas literally exists and will stop by with nuts, candies and fruit (like he used to) or (b) just you giving them an Xbox—and see what they choose.

And “especially in times like these”? It’s very common for people to believe that they live in times that are “worse than normal”—usually people believe they live in the worst time of all. This is why people have been predicting that we live “in the end times”—for the last 2000 years. This is because people are aware of the atrocities of their own times, but not those of others. In reality, the time in which we live has the least amount of disease, violence, war and crime than any time in history—especially in the first world.

Objection 7: I use the lie to teach children critical thinking principles by encouraging them to figure it out for themselves.

I'm not sure I really object to this. Again, I have no objection to playing the "Santa game"—pretending with your children that Santa exists—as long as you never encourage them to literally believe it, don’t lie to them when they ask, and encourage them to figure it out for themselves.

I suppose things could go wrong. I've collected some stories from some parents whose kids won't stop believing Santa exists even though they are told otherwise. But, given what children hear at school, that could happen regardless of whether you play the game or not.

At the least, such an approach is completely different than trying to keep kids believing as long as you can with lies, tricks, fake evidence and magic explanations. If you avoid all that, you’re doing well!

Objection 8: If it’s not okay to teach your children to believe in an imaginary being like Santa, why is it okay to make them believe in an imaginary being like God?

It wouldn’t be, if we all knew that God didn’t exist with the same certainty that we know that Santa doesn’t exist. Notice that, if you don’t believe in God you wouldn’t teach your children to believe in him. Why would it be different with Santa?

Objection 9: I don’t say the elf is watching and reporting back to Santa, I just put the elf in different situations and let the kids find him in the morning.

Interestingly, this objection differentiates between two elements of the elf on a shelf tradition. There’s the “be good, he is watching, and if you are good you will be rewarded” aspect. Then there is tricking them into believing that he’s alive and walks around the house at night, getting into trouble. Some parents recognize the dangers of rewarding children for merely not misbehaving (which is different than punishing them for bad behavior). Children should think they are expected to behave—that it’s normal and not an occasion for lavish reward—and should do so for its own sake. Some parents even think that gifts should be unconditional—an expression of love—and never a bribe. (Honestly, think how much healthier the Santa tradition would be if he gave you gifts simply because “he loves you regardless”—instead of because “you didn’t misbehave.”)

But the same parents may believe it is okay to make kids believe the elf is engaging in shenanigans. Here’s the thing: just like with Santa, there seems to be nothing wrong with playing the game—pretending that Santa and the elf is real—as long as the kids know it’s just a game. Make the elf build an igloo, eat the milk and cookies—but don’t encourage them to believe that any of it is literally real.

Objection 10: I tell my kids about the real Santa—St. Nicholas. He gave gifts to kids, so parents just continue on the tradition.

It turns out, those stories about St. Nicholas and his gift giving are apocryphal—they didn’t really happen. They didn’t even really happen to the Pythagorean philosopher Apollonius, from whom the church borrowed the stories. In fact, given my research, the status of St. Nicholas as a mere historical figure is questionable. (I can already hear the hate mail rolling in.)

Objection 11: Won’t teaching children that their parents lie to them, actually teach them to distrust authority and what others tell them—and won’t that turn them into critical thinkers?

Perhaps, but you can also do this without lying to them and children need to trust their parents, especially in their early years. Besides, what better way to teach them to distrust authority and what others tell them (but also main parental trustworthiness) than by telling children that, even though Santa isn’t real, everyone else in the world will try to lie to them by insisting that he is.

Objection 12: Where is your scientific evidence that The Santa lie promotes credulity?

I’d love some, but Santa is such a sacred cow, no one has ever bothered to do the research. But not every argument has to be scientific to be a good argument. I don’t need a series of studies to know that exposing my child to proper English, even before he can talk, will positively affect his language skills—or to know that exposing him to improper English will have a negative effect. Likewise, if I want to my child to grow up forming reasonable beliefs for good reasons, I need to expose him to such reasoning even before he is able to do it himself, and encourage him to partake in such reasoning whenever I can. Doing so raises the probability that he will have healthy reasoning skills as an adult. I don’t need a study to know this is true.

Objection 13: I don’t want my child to not have any friends at school.

There are other ways of dealing with the fact that many of your child’s friends believe. If you are playing the game with them, just have them play the game with their friends too. Or, just have them say, “at our house, Santa is pretend.” Besides, sometimes the right thing isn’t easy. Suppose you’re a vegetarian; would you pack your child a turkey sandwich so his friends won’t make fun of him? Suppose you’re an atheist. Would you teach your child that God exists?

Objection 14: Finally! We don’t teach our children to believe in Santa, the elf, or anything like that. And I’m so tired of our friends saying that we are bad parents because we don’t lie to our children! I’m so glad to finally find someone on our side—someone who articulates so clearly why it’s such a bad idea.

Okay, so this isn’t an objection—but I had to include it to show that not everyone disagrees with me. In fact, you’d be surprised how many such emails and comments I get. If you don’t tell your children the Santa-Lie, you are not alone.
yrs,
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Re: Santa vs St Nick

Post by rubato »

http://www.csmonitor.com/The-Culture/Fa ... l-thinking
For many parents, Santa Claus is a joyful part of childhood that enhances the fun of Christmas, encourages imagination, and later, as kids start to get wise to the myth, promotes critical thinking, says Karl Rosengren. The developmental psychologist and fellow researchers at Northwestern University, in Evanston, Ill., has conducted a series of studies and surveys of parents’ attitudes towards belief in fantasy.

“One of the things that struck us is that most parents hadn’t ever thought too deeply about why they encourage these beliefs, but they continue to do it because that’s how they were raised,
” Prof. Rosengren says. “Parents talk about encouraging fantasy helping with cognitive development and creativity, and, as a developmental psychologist, I really can’t see anything wrong with it.”

“I think I like the idea of the magic in childhood,” one parent responded to Rosengren’s survey. “We’ll let it go as long as she’s willing to believe.”

Johnson sees that moment when kids’ belief begins to fade as a critical point in the formation of children’s ability to think critically and maintain trust.

A real problem arises when parents “encourage kids to keep believing even after they express doubts," he says.

“In general we have a critical thinking problem in this country,” he says. “A good portion of my students believes that Chris Angel [an illusionist] really can walk on water. Many believe in ghosts. I’m not saying that the Santa myth is to blame, but perpetuating the myth and encouraging kids to ignore their intuition about what’s real and what’s not is a real problem.”
...
When Mr. McGowan’s son was young, he was careful to couch the Santa tale with phrases such as, “some people say” and encourage his son to share what he thought.

“When he looked at me and asked, ‘Is Santa real?’ I asked, ‘What do you think?’ and he replied, ‘I think it’s the moms and dads!’ He was so excited that he had this idea. I said, ‘Good for you, you figured it out.' ”
yrs.
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Re: Santa vs St Nick

Post by rubato »

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-wh ... ta-2010-12
Business Insider More: Christmas Fraud
Here's Why You Shouldn't Lie To Your Kids About Santa
Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry
Dec. 25, 2010, 12:31 PM 25,227 44

A Christmas Story
Here's a bit of advice to parents: don't lie to your kids. Yesterday we wrote a post on a PR stunt by Google to "track Santa" and pointed out that the whole thing is more than a bit silly, especially for Google, which prides itself on openness and spreading information.

That post got a fair bit of attention and more than a few comments so we thought we would elucidate, on this beautiful Christmas day, why, exactly, parents shouldn't lie to their kids and make them believe in Santa Claus.

The argument goes something like this: lying to children is bad.

You would think that this would be uncontroversial, somewhere between "Don't punch old ladies" and "World peace is a good idea", but there we are. So let us explain.


It's not just a story. Parents usually defend the Santa lie by saying that it's just a story, like Snow White. But there's a difference between fiction and lying. When you tell your kids a story, they know it's a story. They don't believe it's actually real. When kids play cops and robbers, even though they pretend otherwise -- and that's part of the fun! -- they know they're not actual cops and robbers. It's not the same thing as a telling them a story. Telling stories is awesome. The Santa lie, however, is a lie.

It doesn't do anything for their imagination. This is usually the next line of defense: tricking kids about Santa somehow helps their imagination. But that makes no sense. You're not asking kids to actually imagine anything, you're feeding them beliefs. You are taking advantage of the fact that they trust you to make them believe things are true which are not. That has nothing to do with imagination. If believing in Santa was an exercise in imagination, every kid would believe in a different Santa. And yet the things kids believe about Santa are the things their parents tell them (unless the kids are smart).

Who cares if it's tradition? For a very long time, tradition included such smart education principles as "spare the rod, spoil the child." Now our society doesn't believe in beating children -- and that's a good thing. Families that celebrate Christmas should have Christmas traditions! If you're Christian, well, your religion already has plenty of traditions around that. If you're secular but still want to celebrate Christmas, you still have carols, food, spending time together, and exchanging gifts for the right, correct reason: that you love each other. You don't need to invent a supersonic fat man to show your children you love them.

It's bad tactics. From the parents' purely self-interested perspective, the Santa lie is just dumb parenting. First of all, it erodes your trust capital. Once your kids discover that you were actively lying to them for several years, how much do you think they'll trust you? Some kids are unaffected, but many trust their parents less. The Santa lie is also used to control children: if you're "good" you'll get presents, and if you're "naughty" you won't. But really, has that ever worked? Except for the two weeks before Christmas, and possibly for thirty seconds after being reminded, has any child ever altered his behavior in any way because of this threat?

It's just morally wrong. Sorry to repeat ourselves, but lying to children is just wrong. It is. Just because someone is gullible is no reason to lie to them, and children have a right not to be deceived like everyone else. You can make a case for some "white lies" but the Santa lie is not a white lie. It's just a lie.

It's selfish. That's the biggest reason. Despite their protestations to the contrary, parents don't do it for the benefit of the children. They do it for their own benefit. When pressed and rebutted, parents will eventually blurt out "But they're so cute when they believe in Santa!" That's the real reason, isn't it? Parents tell their kids the Santa lie because it's a form of entertainment. They like to watch kids helplessly believe something they know isn't true. At the end of the day, it's a cruel prank.

So there you go, parents. It's not too late. Come clean.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-wh ... z2oK01Wo77
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Re: Santa vs St Nick

Post by rubato »

Leaving this place, we find many intelligent people who can debate this rationally and avoid the mindless crap.


What a shock.


I don't think teaching children to literally believe in Santa Claus is the worst thing in the world or will cause irreparable harm but why do it if its a lie? Why teach your own children that you will lie to them for your own amusement? I don't see any benefit.


yrs,
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Re: Santa vs St Nick

Post by rubato »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:
rubato wrote:So far there has been only the usual mindless crap. No one has had the wit or intelligence to respond to the substance because it is patently obvious that lying to children is wrong and teaching a superstitious and magical world view is wrong. And no one has had the ability to argue it.

So the reversion into the usual personal insults and mental garbage.

yrs,
rubato

I responded to the substance without insults or mental garbage and argued againsts your view. Are you interested in responding with substance or just ego tripping?

(LJ - there's no need for you to answer, thanks - I got it already)

Oh like fuck you did:


by MajGenl.Meade » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:53 am


Those without children (or who have raised robotic killers) are doubtless better equipped to dictate to those with children how they are to be raised.

Meade




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Re: Santa vs St Nick

Post by Joe Guy »

Well, that does it for me then. I'm going to the mall this afternoon and I'm going to pull Santa's fake beard off and expose him for the phoney he really is! This will help all of the children develop into better human beings.

I'm so happy that those doctors have told everyone how they should raise their children. The world will be so much better when everyone realizes the damage they're doing to their kids by making Christmas a magical time for them.

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Re: Santa vs St Nick

Post by Big RR »

Leaving this place, we find many intelligent people who can debate this rationally and avoid the mindless crap.
so a business writer for Forbes and an assistant professor of philosophy write about he psychological effects of the belief on santa claus on children; why should I even care what they say? Being accomplished in one field in no way makes them experts in another, such as sociology or psychology. They're entitled to their opinions, but so what?

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Re: Santa vs St Nick

Post by Lord Jim »

Every Who down in Whoville liked Christmas a lot...

Image

But the GRINCH....

Who lived in Santa Cruz...

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Did NOT...

The Grinch hated Christmas! The whole Christmas season! Now, please don't ask why...

No one quite knows the reason...

It could be his head wasn't screwed on just right...

It could be, perhaps, that his shoes were too tight...

But I think that the most likely reason of all...

May have been that his heart was two sizes too small...
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