Snowden's victim

[Lord Jim]

With regard to Snowden's prosecution it may not matter if the SC rules the whole thing unconstitutional or not.

You're absolutely right. Given the iron-clad nature of the evidence of his crimes, the odds are overwhelming he will be convicted regardless of what the SC decides about this program.

[Sue U]

Could I please have a show of hands of all the folks who expect the Supreme Court to rule the entire NSA meta data program Unconstitutional, and prohibit the federal government from engaging in it?

Now, please don't raise your hand if you think the SC "should" make that ruling, or because you would "like" for them to make that ruling....

I only want to see the hands of those who believe they "will" make that ruling...

To the extent the surveillance program collects only "metadata" and not the actual substance of communications, I think it is likely to be upheld in a court test, Judge Leon's decision yesterday notwithstanding. I don't think there's any recognized expectation of privacy in who is communicating with whom, how often and for how long. The technology for obtaining that information is certainly much more sophisticated than it ever was before, but there has never been any privacy protection afforded to any such information that was otherwise publicly available. Is it really any different than a detective watching where someone goes or with whom he meets? Is it significantly different than the information contained on the outside of a mailing envelope?

[Rick]

The part that is going to get them is the "keyword" tracking...

[Sue U]

There is no mention of keyword tracking in the opinion, which I have just scanned. The heart of the opinion is really at pp. 52-56, where the Court concludes that because peoples' relationships with their phones have changed in the last 34 years, what might be reasonable in terms of a government search of telephony information has changed as well -- particularly where the search collects massive amounts of information from millions of people without any basis for suspicion of any illegal activity at all. The judge admits that he is in "uncharted Fourth Amendment waters" and has virtually nothing to guide his decision but what he perceives the general public's expectations may be concerning privacy in metadata and what it might reveal. While the Court certainly raises quite a number of significant and potentially very troubling public policy issues, I am not sure there is much of an actual legal foundation for the decision (nor, apparently, is Judge Leon). While there is much to commend the Court's concern for privacy interests, I don't think that increased government efficiency in data collection and analysis, without substantially more, really changes how the legal principles are applied.

[Gob]

National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden has written in "an open letter to the Brazilian people" that he would be willing to help Brazil's government investigate US spying on its soil, but that he could do so only if granted political asylum.

In a letter obtained and published early on Tuesday by the respected Folha de S. Paulo newspaper, Mr Snowden said he's been impressed by the Brazilian government's strong criticism of the massive NSA spy program targeting internet and telecommunications around the globe, including monitoring the mobile phone of Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff.

Brazilian senators have asked for Snowden's help during hearings about the NSA program's aggressive targeting of Brazil, an important transit hub for trans-Atlantic fibre optic cables that are hacked.

"I've expressed my willingness to assist where it's appropriate and legal, but, unfortunately, the US government has been working hard to limit my ability to do so," said the letter, translated into Portuguese by the newspaper. It didn't make the English original available online.
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"Until a country grants me permanent political asylum, the US government will continue to interfere with my ability to speak out," the letter added.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/edward-snow ... z2nlW4Btk5

[Crackpot]

And the dipshit wonders why the US won't cut him any slack.

[Rick]

There is no mention of keyword tracking in the opinion, which I have just scanned. The heart of the opinion is really at pp. 52-56, where the Court concludes that because peoples' relationships with their phones have changed in the last 34 years, what might be reasonable in terms of a government search of telephony information has changed as well -- particularly where the search collects massive amounts of information from millions of people without any basis for suspicion of any illegal activity at all. The judge admits that he is in "uncharted Fourth Amendment waters" and has virtually nothing to guide his decision but what he perceives the general public's expectations may be concerning privacy in metadata and what it might reveal. While the Court certainly raises quite a number of significant and potentially very troubling public policy issues, I am not sure there is much of an actual legal foundation for the decision (nor, apparently, is Judge Leon). While there is much to commend the Court's concern for privacy interests, I don't think that increased government efficiency in data collection and analysis, without substantially more, really changes how the legal principles are applied.

I see looking at Items 1&2 on pages 2&3 on how the suit was crafted.

[rubato]

What would have happened if Snowden had not lanced the boil right now? What if it had gone on, as it was sure to, for another decade and our snooping on our allies and other innocents uncovered things either embarrassing or injurious enough to legitimately move them to rage, to see us as overtly hostile, enemies, and seriously damaged the Western Alliance?

Snowden did us a favor just like Daniel Ellsberg did.

The truth is important. The truth matters. Anyone in or out of government who believes that their actions will NEVER be found out will NEVER be subject to the moral scrutiny of the community is prone to be corrupted by that knowledge and to exercise power in ways which are damaging.

yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

Geesus, in one thread you're hatin' on Santa, and in another you're cheering on a cowardly traitor...

I'm sure you have something positive you'd like to say about infectious diseases , or something negative to say about motherhood....

[Big RR]

Jim--I know you consider Snowden a traitor, but in your mind is exposing covert activities of the government that contradicts its official position ever justified--if only to bring the truth to the people? E.g., were Ellsberg's efforts justified? Certainly exposing the names and locations of covert agents and their contacts is always (or nearly always) wrong, but what about cases like this, where the only harm is a little embarrassment? Shouldn't the "misdeeds" and lies/misdirections of the government be brought to light?

[Gob]

Jim--I know you consider Snowden a traitor, but in your mind is exposing covert activities of the government that contradicts its official position ever justified--if only to bring the truth to the people?

[Jim]"Only if it's a Democat government being exposed."[/Jim]

[Big RR]

Gob--I don't lump Jim into that; he's been pretty much against any whistleblower/traitor, whether they expose republicans or democrats.

[Gob]

Oh, don't worry BigRR, I'm only pulling his string, he'll know that.

[Lord Jim]

Oh, don't worry BigRR, I'm only pulling his string, he'll know that.

You see, we have that kind of relationship...

[rubato]

We have shown many ways in which Snowden's revelations have been helpful but none so far which show that they are harmful.


tick tick tick tick.


Waiting and waiting!


yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

[rubato]

We have shown many ways in which Snowden's revelations have been helpful but none so far which show that they are harmful.


tick tick tick tick.


Waiting and waiting!


yrs,
rubato

And still waiting.


yrs,
rubato

[Crackpot]

To me at least it's not so much what he's reveals as to his behavior since he's revealed it. Ever since he left the country he's been a perfect example of what not to do.

[Crackpot]

Culminating in his latest offer to reveal state secrets in exchange for asylum. (If that doesn't fit the bill for treason I don't know what does)

[rubato]

To me at least it's not so much what he's reveals as to his behavior since he's revealed it. Ever since he left the country he's been a perfect example of what not to do.

Unless you want to go to prison for doing the right thing.


yrs,
rubato