Who's Sorry Now?

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Big RR
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Re: Who's Sorry Now?

Post by Big RR »

[If Obamacare is "successful," tens of millions of young, healthy Americans will be compelled to purchase insurance that they do not need, to supplement the premiums of millions of old farts (like me) who will - at least in theory - get more coverage than they actually pay for.
We pay for lots of things we don't "need"; I didn't need the war in Iraq or Afghanistan, I don't need the government spying on my phone calls, etc., but I pay for them. If these tens of millions of young people don't need medical insurance, they can pay the tax and go on without it, comforted by the fact that the safety net of Medicaid (something they also don't "need" right now) will take care of them should they need it. And who pays for that? those millions of old farts, of course.

Face it, insurance is not a zero sum game, it cannot be. Some of us will never collect what we put into it (and we're really the lucky ones, aren't we?), but we pay to insure against catastrophes and for the comfort that comes with knowing we are covered. I've done the same thing through the various places I worked for years, and lluckily I havenever even boken even on what I paid into it.

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Lord Jim
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Re: Who's Sorry Now?

Post by Lord Jim »

Well, at least we can perhaps finally have an adult conversation about this without the endless braindead shilling...

I'm prepared to have a discourse about this on that level with folks who are like minded...

We may disagree, but let's disagree agreeably...
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rubato
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Re: Who's Sorry Now?

Post by rubato »

http://acasignups.net/

Private QHPs: 3.03M
Medicaid/CHIP: 7.44M
Sub26ers: 3.10M

Total as of Jan 24, 2014: 13.57 Million

Enrollment Period Elapsed: 63.2%
CBO Projection Attained: 42.9%



Sorry, there was an update later on Friday. Big jump upwards.

(and this data understates reality since there is a delay before reporting in any case)

Obamacare races ahead.

yrs,
rubato

rubato
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Re: Who's Sorry Now?

Post by rubato »

Big RR wrote:
[If Obamacare is "successful," tens of millions of young, healthy Americans will be compelled to purchase insurance that they do not need, to supplement the premiums of millions of old farts (like me) who will - at least in theory - get more coverage than they actually pay for.
... "
It is impossible to say they are paying for something they 'do not need' unless you actually know the future.

The fact is that a lot of them will need medical care which they cannot pay for 'out of pocket' and which will otherwise be paid for by raising the rates for everyone else or by tax subsidy. Car accidents, metastatic disease, complications of pregnancy, all effect younger people. And under the Republican system they are rewarded for not paying their share by a society which provides emergency rooms, trauma centers and OB-wards in advance of their problems. The advantage of the ACA is that they do pay something towards their share of costs.


yrs,
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Lord Jim
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Re: Who's Sorry Now?

Post by Lord Jim »

rubato wrote:http://acasignups.net/

Private QHPs: 3.03M
Medicaid/CHIP: 7.44M
Sub26ers: 3.10M

Total as of Jan 24, 2014: 13.57 Million

Enrollment Period Elapsed: 63.2%
CBO Projection Attained: 42.9%



Sorry, there was an update later on Friday. Big jump upwards.

(and this data understates reality since there is a delay before reporting in any case)

Obamacare races ahead.

yrs,
rubato

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oldr_n_wsr
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Re: Who's Sorry Now?

Post by oldr_n_wsr »

Numbers are numbers. Considering the guesstimates that ooze out, rather than hard published numbers all is suspect.
Here is a view about the medicaid numbers.
Trying to count Obamacare’s Medicaid enrollment? Good luck.
By Sarah Kliff
January 23 at 9:32 am

1. Health and Human Services says that 6.3 million people signed up for Medicaid in the last three months of 2013, from October through December. These are, not coincidentally, the three months of 2013 when people could start signing up for the Affordable Care Act's Medicaid expansion. That's the part of the law that expands Medicaid to those who earn less than 133 percent of the poverty line - about $15,000 for an individual - if they live in one of the blue states below expanding the program.
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2. We don't know how many of those people gaining Medicaid because of the Affordable Care Act. There are lots of people who were eligible for Medicaid prior to the Affordable Care Act but didn't take action to enroll in the program. Maybe they never got around to signing up or found the paperwork too difficult. Maybe they hadn't heard about the Medicaid program--but did start hearing about it this past fall, when there was lots of focus on the health law's insurance expansion. When states send the federal government information about the number of people signing up for coverage, they don't specify whether it's "Obamacare Medicaid" or "normal Medicaid." They just tell the federal government that somebody signed up for Medicaid.

This explains why you see over 1 million people gaining coverage this past December in states that did not expand Medicaid--states where literally nothing changed about the type of coverage they offer.

3. To make matters even more confusing, these numbers don't represent the people who go to HealthCare.gov, type in their income and find out they're eligible for Medicaid. This particular report represents people who went directly to their state Medicaid office. In that way, this report misses some of the people who are coming in a different front door. However, in the 14 states that are running their own exchange, the numbers do include those who came in through the online marketplace.

And, lastly (because you weren't confused enough already) 14 states also include in their figures people who already have Medicaid and are renewing that coverage. You can find a list of those states on page 3 of this report.

4. The question on health wonks' minds is: How many people got Medicaid under Obamacare? We don't have that answer until the early spring. Each quarter, states submit reimbursement requests to the federal government. The end of the first quarter of the year is March 31. That's when states will tell the federal government how much they should be paid for each person they cover on Medicaid. That's where states will have to specify who gained coverage under the health-care law, because the federal government will pay 100 percent of those enrollees' costs. Typically the federal government only splits the bill with the state.

5. A handful of states do report this specific number. Washington, for example, counts a total of 381,000 people who have signed up for Medicaid in since October. Of those, about one third - 134,000 people - are newly eligible for the program. An additional 63,000 were eligible already but are now signing up for the first time. And, last, 183,000 people were previously covered under Medicaid and were re-determined eligible to stay on the program. Similarly, in Maryland, Charles Gaba's analysis suggests that about one-third of Medicaid sign-ups were people renewing policies.

Using Arkansas numbers, Sean Trende has estimated that about 45 percent of those signing up for Medicaid are newly eligible under the health-care law. Taken together, these numbers seem to suggest about one-third to half of the Medicaid sign-ups are among those newly-eligible under Obamacare. But again, we won't know the actual number until April at the earliest.

6. Another way to think about the numbers is the impact that the Medicaid expansion is having. The Obama administration crunched the numbers and finds that states expanding Medicaid have had a 73 percent increase in enrollment as compared to a baseline period from July through September. States that did not expand, meanwhile, had a 3 percent increase.

7. Medicaid enrollees renewing their coverage are, pretty clearly, not gaining coverage because of the Affordable Care Act. As to whether those who were eligible previously but just now signing up count as Obamacare enrollees is more a matter of punditry than policy. No, these people did not gain coverage because the Affordable Care Act expanded Medicaid. But yes, it's possible that without the Affordable Care Act's heavy publicity and enrollment push, they would be without coverage.
It's nice that people who did not have coverage before now have coverage but I do have a question.
If there were some 30million people estimated to not have coverage, how come the bar is set so low for signups? The gov says it needs 7million new signups by March but that means that some 20million will still not have health insurance. The bar should be set in the 20million range IMHO.

ETA
I said ~30 million uninsured. Seems that number is higher. From here
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/09/ ... obamacare/
An estimated 48 million Americans are uninsured.
Last edited by oldr_n_wsr on Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

oldr_n_wsr
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Re: Who's Sorry Now?

Post by oldr_n_wsr »

More numbers. don't know where 13+million comes from :shrug

(Reuters) - The number of people enrolled in private health insurance under Obamacare has soared by more than one-third in recent weeks to around 3 million, according to government data released on Friday.

Marilyn Tavenner, administrator of the U.S. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS), announced the preliminary tally in a blog posting. She forecast that enrollment through new federal and state health insurance marketplaces would continue to grow in coming weeks as a public outreach campaign accelerates.

The new data adds to evidence that President Barack Obama's administration has turned the corner on enrollment after a botched October 1 launch. It also shows that officials might still reach their initial goal of signing up 7 million people for private coverage by the time enrollment ends on March 31. (I think that number should be in 20million range given the amount of people supposedly not covered previously)

Analysts say Obama could highlight the 3 million number as a sign of progress when he addresses the topic of healthcare reform in his State of the Union speech on Tuesday.

The administration did not say how many of the new enrollees are young adults needed to ensure the success of Obamacare. Officials are relying on significant participation among healthy young adults to help offset costs from older enrollees and prevent insurers from raising their rates.

The latest tally is close to the 3.3 million mark that the administration originally expected by January 1 and reflects a January gain of about 800,000 enrollees, or 36 percent, from the 2.2 million total reported earlier this month for the October 1 through December 28 period.

"We can now safely say that the exchanges will be stable," said Topher Spiro of the Center for American Progress, a left-leaning think tank aligned with the Obama administration.

The figure was likely to include consumers who sought retroactive January coverage after December 31. At the urging of the Obama administration, some plans have allowed consumers to sign up late for coverage beginning January 1. Maryland's state-run marketplace said on Friday that about 1,400 households have opted for retroactive enrollment through its marketplace.

Earlier this week, the administration also announced that the number of people eligible for Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) rose to 6.3 million this month as a result of the enrollment effort. Medicaid and CHIP both benefit poor people and their expansion represents an integral part of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

"With millions transitioning to new coverage already, we continue to see strong interest nationwide from consumers who want access to quality, affordable coverage," Tavenner said in a blog posted on a U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) Web page.

"As our outreach efforts kick into even higher gear, (any more guys in pajamas ads?) :o we anticipate these numbers will continue to grow, particularly as we reach even more uninsured young adults."

Tavenner's CMS is the HHS agency responsible for implementing most of the healthcare reform law.

Administration officials have expressed growing confidence in the ultimate success of Obama's signature domestic policy since late last year, when an emergency effort to fix crippling glitches at the federal website, HealthCare.gov, finally allowed millions of people to visit the site and enroll for coverage without incident.

"We made a comeback in December and we're hitting our stride," Dr. Mandy Cohen, a senior adviser to Tavenner, said this week at a conference hosted by the group Families USA, which advocates for healthcare reform.

Much of the success has come from the 15 marketplaces run by states and the District of Columbia. California has reported more than 625,000 private health insurance enrollment since October 1, and New York has announced a daily enrollment pace of 7,000 people for private insurance and Medicaid in January.

But administration officials acknowledge they still have a long way to go.

The Obamacare marketplaces, which have been set up in all 50 states, offer private health insurance with subsidies to help pay premiums and other expenses for people with lower incomes.

But so far, three-quarters of enrollees have been older and sicker policyholders, whose greater need for health services means higher costs for insurers. The administration has said it wants 38 percent of the market to consist of younger adults, aged 18 to 34, whose lower healthcare costs would help keep overall costs in line.

After tackling HealthCare.gov's problems last year, the administration also needs to complete construction of the federal health insurance marketplace that serves 36 states. Many automated functions have yet to be built, including the software application for distributing federal subsidies owed to insurers for covering lower-income consumers.

(Editing by Karey Van Hall, Andre Grenon and Amanda Kwan)

rubato
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Re: Who's Sorry Now?

Post by rubato »

oldr_n_wsr wrote: "...
If there were some 30million people estimated to not have coverage, how come the bar is set so low for signups? The gov says it needs 7million new signups by March but that means that some 20million will still not have health insurance. The bar should be set in the 20million range IMHO.

ETA
I said ~30 million uninsured. Seems that number is higher. From here
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/09/ ... obamacare/
An estimated 48 million Americans are uninsured.


The 7 million number is a CBO estimate. It is not a 'bar'.


And we would have single-payer today, and 100% coverage, if it were not for the GOP blocking it for 40 years.


The ACA is not a good bill but it is the best bill that was able to be voted into law. And the GOP have tried everything to kill as many people as they can by killing even that very modest improvement. It is an improvement.


yrs,
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rubato
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Re: Who's Sorry Now?

Post by rubato »

oldr_n_wsr wrote:More numbers. don't know where 13+million comes from :shrug
You would if you followed the link and read what was there.

Ignorance in this case is voluntary.

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Lord Jim
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Re: Who's Sorry Now?

Post by Lord Jim »

If you "follow the link and read what's there," then you know for a fact that the "13 million" number is complete bullshit.

Yes, ignorance is indeed voluntary...

In fact for some it would appear to be compulsory...
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Joe Guy
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Re: Who's Sorry Now?

Post by Joe Guy »

rubato wrote:
oldr_n_wsr wrote:More numbers. don't know where 13+million comes from :shrug
You would if you followed the link and read what was there.

Ignorance in this case is voluntary.
How clever!

I see what you did there rubato. You made reference to a link and decided to point out that oldr didn't understand and is ignorant. You did that in a roundabout way. Very good. Saying it that way allows you to deny that you were calling him ignorant and later claim it was a general statement not directed at anyone.

I bet you feel good about that, don't you?

Good job.

Down there in Santa Cruz where you say you're always hanging out with affluent people. Drinking wine. Going to France. It must be give you great joy to take advantage of any opportunity to call someone else ignorant.

That was really good.

Well done...

Yes it was.

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Who's Sorry Now?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

rubato wrote:
oldr_n_wsr wrote:More numbers. don't know where 13+million comes from :shrug
You would if you followed the link and read what was there. Ignorance in this case is voluntary.
No need for the gratuitous insult rubato. Quit it.

old, we don't have to follow the link - rubato gave the "where it comes from" in his post:
Private QHPs: 3.03M
Medicaid/CHIP: 7.44M
Sub26ers: 3.10M Total as of Jan 24, 2014: 13.57 Million.

Enrollment Period Elapsed: 63.2%
CBO Projection Attained: 42.9%


This is comparing the 3.03M health care sign-ups with the 7 million CBO projection - both numbers that you gave in your quoted link. He was leaving out the Medicaid/CHIP and Sub26er numbers

Now the number 13.57 million may or may not be bullshit but it was not claimed to represent sign ups FOR Obamacare (as far as I can see in the link) - that would be the 3.03M number which was clearly stated and which rubato correcly identified separately in comparison to CBO. The enrollment period is 63.2 percent complete and only 42.9% of the projection has been achieved.

I do not doubt that as March 31 approaches, the pace of actual sign ups will increase dramatically - people don't want to sign up too early. As I've said before, I shall be one of them (according to my past investigation) because my wife and I qualify but we don't want to sign up and start paying until the last moment - we have health care here until April 30th.

Interestingly that does cost us here in SA about US$ 234 per month, covering both of us in private (and efficient) hospitals with low or no deductibles. I wish we could ger an insurance plan half as good in the USA, even for twice the money!
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

oldr_n_wsr
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Re: Who's Sorry Now?

Post by oldr_n_wsr »

Ignorance in this case is voluntary.
Thank you, thank you very much. :|
I read the link.
The explanation of 13million is "fuzzy" at best.
Medicaid added in, not added in, real numbers are hard to come by. Even in most of these writeups they say "REAL" numbers won't be available until March-April. If 13million is correct, then great. We only have some 27million more people to get insured in the USA. Wasn't that the goal of this law? To bring health insurance to everyone in the USA?
The ACA is not a good bill but it is the best bill that was able to be voted into law
Considering it was passed the house without one vote from the republicans, he could have presented any health care law he wanted.
That he chose this, just confirms my view that we are settling for less than mediocrity.
Then to take 3 years and $800 million to roll out a broken website with parts still missing, does not give me much faith in our government (dems and reps together. I lump both parties in the trash bin) and it's ability to do much of anything. And for anyone who cares, the back end of the site is still not designed (forget about glitches. There are no glitches in "vapor-ware")

From here http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2 ... -utte.aspx
The 1 Thing Standing in the Way of Obamacare's Utter Collapse

By Keith Speights | More Articles | Save For Later
January 26, 2014 | Comments (81)

Without it, the entirety of Obamacare is in jeopardy. Without it, the entire health-insurance industry could be at risk. If it fails, the federal government could be financially harmed.
Naaaah, They'll just print more money, problem solved :o
Those words didn't come from the mouths of opponents of the Affordable Care Act. They originated directly from the federal government -- to be specific, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, or CMS.

What could possibly be so important to the future of Obamacare and the health insurance industry? The one thing standing in the way of the collapse of health reform and the aftermath of such a meltdown is ... Accenture (NYSE: ACN ) .

A stunning request
After the disastrous launch of the federally run HealthCare.gov website, the White House made some changes. CGI Group (NYSE: GIB ) , a primary contractor on the initial effort, was shown the exit door. The company walked out whistling, though: CGI's contract with the U.S. government generated up to $300 million in revenue. CGI's stock soared nearly 45% last year.

UnitedHealth Group's (NYSE: UNH ) Quality Software Services, or QSS, unit won the job as lead contractor in the salvage effort of HealthCare.gov. QSS staff worked day and night alongside others for weeks to fix the hundreds of bugs in the website. By early December, federal officials were pointing to the apparent success of those efforts, with many Americans finally able to enroll for health insurance.

Behind the scenes, though, some government insiders weren't celebrating victory yet. A justification was submitted on Dec. 27 for skipping the standard open bidding process in selecting a vendor to "perform urgently required services." What was so urgent? The need to develop the back-end financial management platform for HealthCare.gov by mid-March.

CMS recommended that Accenture be awarded a $91 million contract without allowing other companies to bid. The federal government's bidding process takes at least six months. There simply wasn't enough time to avoid the dire consequences spelled out in detail by CMS officials without taking immediate action.

Were all the gloomy predictions about the threat to Obamacare and the health insurance industry overblown? That doesn't appear to be the case. CMS said that critical functionality was totally missing from the back-end system, including the ability to track eligibility and enrollment transactions and to pay insurers correctly. I guess $800million wasn't enough to complete the job :shrug

A significant opportunity
Tongues are already wagging that the Obamacare website mess is worse than previously disclosed, but let's leave that to the political commentators. There's a possible investing opportunity here -- not because $91 million is a huge amount for Accenture, but because of the bigger picture.

Although there wasn't an open bid process, the feds didn't pick Accenture willy-nilly. CMS looked at more than a dozen companies for the job. It selected Accenture because the big consulting company possessed the technical expertise needed, had proven experience tackling complex tasks, and claimed a good track record.As opposed to CGI who's only "good" track record is that Mrs Obama went to school with a high ranking official in CGI

If Accenture successfully pulls this project off, the company will be able to talk to prospects in the future and honestly say, "The U.S. government picked us for one of the most critical efforts it has ever faced with an incredibly tight window -- and we delivered." Regardless of whether a prospect is a government agency or a private company, that kind of achievement holds the potential to land Accenture considerable business over the next few years.

The obvious question, though, is: Can Accenture do it? Can the company actually build the back-end system functionality in just a couple of months or so? As massive of an effort as it appears to be, I think it can. Sure, there will probably be some problems. However, I suspect that Accenture will be able to pull a rabbit out of the hat.

My view is based on a few factors. First, I worked for Accenture years ago and know how it operates. It'll tackle the project as methodically as ants building an ant bed. Second, it has a lot of ants -- a huge pool of talent from which to choose. The company has no doubt assembled some of its best resources for the project.

Third -- and perhaps most important, I doubt Accenture would have signed up for the project if it didn't think it would succeed. That's not to say the company has been successful in every project in the past. It hasn't.

However, this effort is so visible, so politically charged, and so critical, my take is that Accenture wouldn't have ventured forward if it thought this was a lost cause. And the company was already a contractor on parts of the Obamacare implementation already, so it wasn't making the call without some knowledge of what it was getting into.

If I'm right, investors could be smart to follow CMS's lead and pick Accenture. If I'm wrong, Accenture's stock probably wouldn't be hurt too much. Just look at CGI's stock performance during the HealthCare.gov fiasco last year. If I'm wrong and CMS is right, though, Obamacare could be in store for a lot of pain in the days ahead.
ETA
And to those who took the time to explain, in a civil tone, what I missed or didn't comprehend in the post in question.
Thank you

oldr_n_wsr
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Re: Who's Sorry Now?

Post by oldr_n_wsr »

More news
The Problem With Obamacare's 9 Million Enrollment Number

By Brian Orelli | More Articles
January 29, 2014 | Comments (47)

"More than 9 million Americans have signed up for private health insurance or Medicaid coverage -- 9 million."
-- President Obama, in his State of the Union speech last night

That's technically true. About 3 million Americans have signed up for private insurance on the federal or state exchanges, and around 6 million are now eligible for Medicaid.

The problem is the number doesn't tell us what we need to know to figure out whether Obamacare is viable.

How many of those 9 million are newly covered Americans?
We don't know, so we can't exactly blame the president for the number he used. However, it's likely that many of those 9 million had health insurance previously. I said this months ago. People who had insurace (that was canceled due to having policies deemed inadequate in some way) are more likely to sign up than those who did not have insurance previously.

A survey by McKinsey & Co. earlier this month said that just 11% of people that signed up on the exchanges were previously uninsured. It's not an official number, but even if it's in the ballpark, most people were just switching insurance.

That's not a particularly surprising breakdown for early enrollees. Money is a pretty good driver. People who were paying a large chunk of their income on health insurance can get subsidies by signing up on the exchanges. There were also all those people with catastrophic insurance that had their plans cancelled because they didn't meet the new minimum requirements.

We yet know how many people who signed up on the exchanges actually paid for their insurance. You'd think it was pretty high, considering how difficult it has been to sign up on the federal website, but there are certainly going to be some people who change their minds between signing up and getting the bill. and considering the back end of the website is not even designed yet, you know the part of it that relays the subsidy info and payments, it's a wonder the insurance companies are getting paid at all

Medicaid is for low-income individuals, so presumably the number of people who were previously uninsured is higher, but we don't have any figures to know for sure. The 6 million who signed up for Medicaid includes all people who signed up, many of whom would have been eligible under the old Medicaid rules. It isn't clear how much the expansion of Medicaid under Obamacare is helping to get the uninsured covered.

The uninsured make Obamacare work
More people in the system is key for the numbers to work out.

Drug companies, for instance, are required to give discounts on drugs bought through Medicaid and Medicare as part of Obamacare. The industry didn't fight the law because it's counting on sales to newly insured patients to cover the discounts.

Likewise health insurers, such as UnitedHealth Group (NYSE: UNH ) and Humana (NYSE: HUM ) , are counting on new enrollees not only for the added revenue but also to make the insurance prices work. Many uninsured people were uninsured because the risk of getting sick doesn't justify the cost. Adding those to the risk pool makes up for those with pre-existing conditions.

Earlier this month, Humana said its projected enrollment was "more adverse than previously expected." If the enrollees, on average, have higher medical expenses than planned for, UnitedHealth, Humana, and the rest of the insurers are going to have to charge higher prices to make up for the higher costs.

Finally, part of what helps pay for Obamacare subsidies comes from the government not having to make payments to hospitals to cover medical expenses incurred by hospitals that treat uninsured patients. If the uninsured aren't signing up for insurance, hospitals such as HCA Holdings (NYSE: HCA ) and Tenet Healthcare (NYSE: THC ) are going to be in trouble.

Hospitals in states that have chosen not to expand Medicaid are lobbying their legislatures to change their minds. Ten of HCA's hospitals in Virginia, for instance, stand to lose $53.3 million from the cuts over the next two years.

Not doomed yet
There's still plenty of time to get the uninsured signed up during the open enrollment, which runs through March. And it's not like it's the end of the world if the procrastinating uninsured don't sign up this year. The next open enrollment period starts Oct. 15.

Of course, the president would just as soon you sign up this year:

That's why tonight I ask every American who knows someone without health insurance to help them get covered by March 31.


The state of the union might not count on it, but it'll sure make the new program a lot more successful.
ETA
Link
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2 ... ent-n.aspx

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Lord Jim
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Re: Who's Sorry Now?

Post by Lord Jim »

Oh geez Louise oldr, there you go again, mucking up this celebratory propaganda shill thread with those damn facts...
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Lord Jim
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Re: Who's Sorry Now?

Post by Lord Jim »

Here are some numbers that will actually have some meaning:
Public Approval of Health Care Law:

For/Favor Against/Oppose Spread
RCP Average 1/3 - 1/26 -- 38.0 51.9 +13.9

President Obama Job Approval

Approve Disapprove Spread
RCP Average 1/15 - 1/31 -- 43.3 51.5 -8.2
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... -1044.html

The Democrats should bring a big box of Mr. Bubble with them to the mid-term elections....

Because they're getting ready to take a bath.... 8-)

ETA:

Damn it, I hate the way it's impossible to get columns of numbers to post correctly... :arg
Last edited by Lord Jim on Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Crackpot
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Re: Who's Sorry Now?

Post by Crackpot »

wouldn't be so sure considering Repubs numbers aren't any better...
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

rubato
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Re: Who's Sorry Now?

Post by rubato »

The big picture is that US health care was in a crisis for more than 20 years. We are the worst in the G-20, by a lot. The reason that we are the worst is that a lot of people have no,or inadequate, health insurance.

The solution is to bring as many people into the system as possible.

1. The ACA eliminates exclusions for pre-existing conditions. This brings more people in, is a good thing, and everyone supports it.
2. The ACA allows people to be on their parents H.I. until 26. This brings more people in, is a good thing, and everyone supports it. (3.1 million more people are covered nationally)
3. The ACA allows people with low-income to have subsidized H.I. through the exchanges. This brings more people in, is a good thing, and everyone supports it.

The net effect is that more people are paying for H.I., even if it is subsidized, and fewer people will die because they are afraid to go to a hospital because of the financial consequences or because they are ashamed.

The big picture is that the exchanges are a success with large numbers signing up (no matter how loudly the RW liars whine about it).

The big picture is that in the liberal states more have H.I. via medicaid so we will all be better off.

Try looking at the big picture, for a change. It will be difficult at first because you are unused to it, but like exercise, you will get better with time and it will seem more natural.


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rubato

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Lord Jim
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Re: Who's Sorry Now?

Post by Lord Jim »

wouldn't be so sure considering Repubs numbers aren't any better...
Yes, well my calculus is based on the hope that the Dems will embrace the Rubian strategy of running vigorously and aggressively on Obamacare, shouting about what a raving success it is... (in which case they will lose at least 20 and possibly as many as 30 seats in The House; there won't be a Democrat left in Congress who isn't from the most Blue of Blue gerrymandered districts)

And regarding the Senate, my hope is that we can avoid nominating lunatics and/or morons to run for easily winnable seats...

(That wouldn't seem like a particularly high bar, but our failure to meet it has cost us control of the Senate for the past two election cycles... :roll: )
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rubato
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Re: Who's Sorry Now?

Post by rubato »

Everyone supports the pre-existing condition exclusion. Everyone. A very good thing to run on.

And the fact that the Repuglicans are trying to eliminate it hurts them.

Cry cry cry, that's what I want you to do ....




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