While you were watching the Olympics today...

[Scooter]

...four people in St. Petersburg, one of them pregnant, were arrested for holding up a banner that said "Discrimination is incompatible with the Olympic Movement. Principle 6. Olympic Charter". Later, also in St. Petersburg, over 10 people doing nothing but waving rainbow flags and singing the Russian national anthem, were brutally beaten and arrested.



I hope you enjoyed watching the show. These people paid for it with their bruised and battered bodies.

[Jarlaxle]

The Sochi Olympixcs should have been moved elsewhere. If that was not feasible, they should have been cancelled completely.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Just like the Beijing Olympics? The Olympic movement is supposed to eschew politics - of all kinds - and remain what it should be - a sporting event.

Who got the gold medal in getting beaten up - I missed that one? (Asshat comment of the day)

[oldr_n_wsr]

I like the winter olympics more than the summer games. I'm a cold weather kind-a-guy.
I have not watched one second of these games but not for making any kind of political statement. With mom in a hospital and wife running herself ragged, haven't had time.
But this does put into perspective the whole "free speech" thing we have here.

[Big RR]

Indeed, but if I were to only watch games in the countries of regimes I supported (or didn't oppose at least), there aren't all that many games I would watch. Sure Russia is a place run by a brutal oligarchy, but the games are about the athletes not the host, and I don't think politics should interfere with them.

[Scooter]

That's an argument that sounds so motherhood it surely must be true, except that it isn't. The Olympics have always been political, and I don't mean the intrigue or the corruption that is a risk in any organization of that size and complexity. The Olympic movement, as they refer to themselves, is a political organization with political goals, by design, from inception. Pierre de Courbertin 's reasons for reviving the Olympic Games in the modern era included seeing the practice of sport as good preparation for fighting wars, that bringing athletes together from around the world would promote peace through greater cultural understanding., that it would promote democracy by being exposed to those from a different class, all clearly political goals, and enshrined in theOlympic Charter:

Fundamental Principles of Olympism

1. Olympism is a philosophy of life, exalting and combining in a balanced whole the qualities of body, will and mind. Blending sport with culture and education, Olympism seeks to create a way of life based on the joy of effort, the educational value of good
example, social responsibility and respect for universal fundamental ethical principles.

2. The goal of Olympism is to place sport at the service of the harmonious development of humankind, with a view to promoting a peaceful society concerned with the preservation of human dignity.

3. The Olympic Movement is the concerted, organised, universal and permanent action, carried out under the supreme authority of the IOC, of all individuals and entities who are inspired by the values of Olympism. It covers the five continents. It reaches its
peak with the bringing together of the world’s athletes at the great sports festival, the Olympic Games. Its symbol is five interlaced rings.

4. The practice of sport is a human right. Every individual must have the possibility of practising sport, without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play.

5. Recognising that sport occurs within the framework of society, sports organisations within the Olympic Movement shall have the rights and obligations of autonomy, which include freely establishing and controlling the rules of sport, determining the structure and governance of their organisations, enjoying the right of elections free from any outside influence and the responsibility for ensuring that principles of good governance be applied.

6. Any form of discrimination with regard to a country or a person on grounds of race, religion, politics, gender or otherwise is incompatible with belonging to the Olympic Movement.

7. Belonging to the Olympic Movement requires compliance with the Olympic Charter
and recognition by the IOC.

So "Olympism" (if I saw a structure like that in another context, my first thought would be "cult") is both a philosophy and the movement created tp bring that philosophy to fruition. It sees sport as a tool for humanity to develop in peace and with respect for human dignity. it defines sport as a human right and decries any sort of discrimination. it requires national Olympic committees to be autonomous and democratic, thereby imposing a particular political structure on them.

Well I'm sorry, but if you choose to call yourself a "movement" that is based on the principle of using sport to further political aims, if you purport to reject all forms of discrimination as incompatible with sport, and while claiming sport itself to be a human right, then it should be no surprise when called to account for looking the other way while a host nation uses the Games to enhance its own prestige, all the while making a complete mockery of the Olympic Charter and pretty much any declaration of human rights ever written. And I don't buy the notion that bringing attention to such travesties will "interfere" with the sports. The athletes have not be Not that any sort of protestor would get within 20 miles of an athlete, but since when do we consider Olympic atheletes to be either so fragile or so privileged that they need to be shielded from peaceful protests?

[Guinevere]

Anyone who thinks the Olympics are free from politics, backbiting, and discrimination hasn't been paying attention. For a good example, read today;s NYTimes article about how hard the IOC fought against having women ski jumpers. But just because it doesn't meet the ideal it was devised to be, doesn't mean we through it out. In some ways, the discussions and controversies are as important as the sport. Would average citizens of any nation have any real sense of how corrupt, controlling and discriminatory Putin's regime is, without the spotlight the Olympics?

[Big RR]

Are the games political? Sure. Do some (all) countries which participate and/or host the games use them to promote their agendas? Certainly. But so what? Everything ultimately reduces to [politics, manipulation, and greed. But underlying all of it are the athletes, those persons who train endlessly to perfect their skills and get a chance in the international arena. So yes, I don't celebrate the Russian propaganda anymore than I did the Chinese (or, for that matter, the Mormon propaganda coming out of Salt Lake city when the Olympics were there). But the point is they have to be held somewhere, and there are few, if any, places which would score 100% on the human rights list.

So I choose to ignore the politics and celebrate the athletes, if only for what they put into it. Nothing is perfect, but I do think these men and women, as a group, are certainly worthy of that support. Indeed, when Carter boycotted the 1980 Olympics over the Russians invading Afghanistan, my annoyance with him fell considerably, and it played into my ultimate vote in 1980.

Protest to your heart's content--there's nothing wrong with that (indeed, I applaud it). It no more detracts from the Olympic competition than the raised fists of the US black athletes did in the 1968 (as I recall) games. But the beginning posts in this thread talked about boycott and cancelling the games, and I think we owe more to the athletes than that.

[Sue U]

Would average citizens of any nation have any real sense of how corrupt, controlling and discriminatory Putin's regime is, without the spotlight the Olympics?

Guin makes a very valid point. The Olympic games have been used very effectively this year to spotlight the repression of the Russian government and it seems to me have actually been a PR disaster for Putin. There's no reason the event can't be used to both cheer the athletes' achievements and criticize the host country's policies; they are not mutually exclusive goals.

[Big RR]

True, but we need to hold the games and participate in them for that to occur. Cancelling and/or boycotting them sends a far more muted message.

[Lord Jim]

Would average citizens of any nation have any real sense of how corrupt, controlling and discriminatory Putin's regime is, without the spotlight the Olympics?

I agree that's an excellent point. Both this Administration and the previous one have done a piss poor job educating the public about the nature of this regime. They have looked the other way and tried to pretend that Russia is still the imperfect but emerging democracy that it was back in the early to mid-nineties.

I suspect that a lot of the public still believes that. The fact is that Putin has been methodically restoring as much of the dictatorial mechanisms and international ambitions of the old Soviet Union that he possibly can. As Putin himself once said, "There's no such thing as a former KGB man"...

He's also been able to fly pretty much under the media radar screen about what he's doing because he's smart enough not to be belicose about it...

Big RR:

So yes, I don't celebrate the Russian propaganda anymore than I did the Chinese (or, for that matter, the Mormon propaganda coming out of Salt Lake city when the Olympics were there).

Okay, I know what a fan of moral relativism you are, but please, please tell me that you are not trying to draw some sort of moral equivalence between a shamelessly brutal totalitarian regime, and a shamelessly brutal authoritarian regime, and a church which has no state power whatsoever...

I frankly don't recall any evidence "Mormon propaganda" during the Salt Lake City Olympics, (there may have been a few arial shots of the Mormon Temple) but perhaps we have different definitions of what constitutes, "propaganda"...

A few other slight differences:

The Salt Lake City Olympics were not put on or sponored by the Mormon Church; The Sochi and Beijing Olympics were entirely set up, orchestrated and choreographed by the Chinese and Russian regimes...

How many opponents of the Mormon Church did the Mormons throw in jail prior to the Salt Lake City Olympics? How many anti-Mormon protests did the Mormon Church send thugs in to break up?

And while we're on the subject, how many newspapers and televisions stations have the Mormons shut down, how many of their opponents have they imprisoned on trumped up charges, and how many neighboring states have they sent their troops into invade, occupy, or annex?

Lord knows I'm not in the habit of citing rube, but this strikes as a real good example of that "all things are equally bad" false symetry he was on about...

[Big RR]

Jim--in the words of your hero, there you go again; I clearly was not trying to draw any moral equivalence, only pointing out that even the US hosted games have their own political undertones. Any moral equivalence exists solely within your own mind. I don't want to hijack this thread to discuss the Mormon church and what it has or has not done; indeed, if you don't recall it, perhaps that propaganda wasn't effective at all.

So calm down, the things Russia is doing/has done are still worthy of protest and condemnation.

[Gob]

The novelty of watching people slide down hills in various ways soon wears thin...

[Sue U]

The novelty of watching people slide down hills in various ways soon wears thin...

And yet you never seem to tire of watching people climb up and/or jump off them (with or without babies on their backs).

[Guinevere]

I love the winter Olympics and almost every single sport on snow and ice (although biathlon is my clear favorite). Not that I'm good at even the most basic versions --I totally suck at doing them, but love them just the same (except those stupid skiing/snowboard events that get judged and aren't just about speed). Lucky for me, I've got a handsome Swede who is pretty good at several of them (its part of the genotype), and who I can admire from a much closer distance than the Olympians.

[Gob]

The only good part in them is the massive wipe-outs at speed. There was a cracker in the "Going down hills and rails, and bannisters, doing tricks" event yesterday.

Is it just me, or do all the young female competitors look like they've been cloned at a factory in California?

[Gob]

Congratulations on your medal, Mr. ...?

[RayThom]

I give the Russian Winter Swat Team a 2.3 for form and style, a 3.1 for execution.

[oldr_n_wsr]

While we are complaining about Putin and how he runs his country, lets not forget about the stray dogs in Sochi being used for target practice.

[Big RR]

Well, to be fair, as heartless as it sounds, stray dogs can be a serious problem. The NY Times reported that many of the dogs are abandoned pets and their offspring. Stray dogs breed disease and are often dangerous; they have to be controlled. Generally, this involves extermination (as the numbers are far too high and the dogs too feral to place in homes), and if the choice is to be rounded up and gassed or shot, I don't see all that much of a difference from a humane perspective so long as the persons shooting/running the gas machines are properly trained. Indeed, I could see the single shot as being more humane.

I do recall reading someone was constructing a makeshift shelter and rounding up the dogs, but this only makes sense if there is a longterm plan for their care; if not, it's just postponing the inevitable, which is hardly humane.