And then maybe a tastefully tattooed number on the forearm

[Scooter]

A new bill prepared by a nationalist MP and approved by federal ministries proposes the introduction of obligatory fingerprinting for all people with dangerous diseases, including HIV, and the creation of a national database.

State Duma deputy Roman Khudyakov of the Liberal Democratic party told mass circulation daily Izvestia that he had prepared an amendment to the federal bill on fingerprinting to provide for a database of people carrying dangerous contagious diseases. This agency will collect medical records and make patients undergo fingerprinting. The information will then be collected in a special nationwide database.

If the amendment is passed the new rules would apply to Russian citizens and foreigners who are visiting the country. Several federal ministries and agencies, including the Federal Migration Service, Interior Ministry, Emergencies Ministry and Prosecutor General’s Office have already approved the draft, the parliamentarian told the newspaper.

link

And after the tattoes, maybe "resettlement" in a series of camps, that have the Russian translation of "Arbeit macht frei" emblazoned over the entrance.

[Crackpot]

No you got it wrong it's the Ukrainian Govt that's showing National Socialist tendencies.

[Lord Jim]

That's Vlad's story anyway...

[rubato]

Russia has about the highest rates of multi-drug resistant TB.



http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/yellowbook/ ... berculosis.

If fingerprinting got those rates under control I would say it was a good thing. Esp. for those with HIV.

We have only kept TB in check by using directly-observed-therapy a very heavy handed approach.


yrs,
rubato

[Scooter]

Yes, because the major barrier to getting TB treatment in Russia is the lack of a fingerprint database of everyone with TB. And not, for example, the abject failure of a government that should be able to afford it, to dedicate the appropriate resources to provide treatment to those who need it.

[rubato]

The 'one child' policy in China has been effective in reducing global overpopulation and the people of China appear not to mind it that much no matter how a good Liberal would feel about that kind of tactic here. I would balance the effectiveness of this policy in reducing the incidence of disease against the feelings for civil rights of those in Russia. I am surprised and disgusted by how little Russians appear to care about their own freedoms but it is their history in the making and not mine. I don't think there is any chance that Liberalism will take over in Russia or in communist China in my lifetime.

yrs,
rubato

[Crackpot]

DGS stop hijacking rubatos account!

[Scooter]

I would balance the effectiveness of this policy in reducing the incidence of disease against the feelings for civil rights of those in Russia.

And is there any evidence to suggest that such a policy will have any success at all in reducing the incidence of disease? Or that it is even a goal of this initiative, given that facilitating access to treatment is not even stated as a purpose by the sponsor of this legislation?

[Lord Jim]

the people of China appear not to mind it that much

Personally, I tend to view with skepticism claims about people living in totalitarian dictatorships, (where expressing unhappiness about the policies of that dictatorship can earn you a long stretch in a labor camp) appearing to "not to mind that much" about the policies of that totalitarian dictatorship....

It reminds me of the same sort of "reasoning" that led some in the early 19th century to assert that the slaves on the southern plantations were perfectly happy being slaves...(Well, for the most part they weren't revolting were they? So they must not have "minded that much"...)

That sort of thinking strikes me as ignorant, naive, and self-serving....

[rubato]

I work with a lot of people who came from mainland China. I know what they think about it because I talked with them.

Try it some time.

yrs,
rubato

[Joe Guy]

Is that your scientifically proven statement of fact based on numerous polls you've taken of people who currently live in China which has resulted in accumulation of extremely reliable data?

[Lord Jim]

I work with a lot of people who came from mainland China. I know what they think about it because I talked with them.

Try it some time.

yrs,
rubato

That statement really reveals your naivete and ignorance...

Do those folks have no family in China rube? Are you really so stupid and ignorant as to believe that they will express themselves freely and honestly to Western strangers regarding the PRC's policies?

I read numerous contemporary first hand accounts of conditions in China by people who live in the PRC or who have until recently and have the courage to speak out; not a handful of privileged tech nerds who will tell the "round eyes" anything their government wants them to spout in order to protect their cushy lifestyles..


I am far better informed on this topic then you imagine yourself to be.

I'm sure if you had been around in the early 1800's and had occasion to meet a well spoken, well dressed "house nigger" you would have considered yourself quite knowledgeable when he told you how happy the slaves were with conditions on the plantation...

[Gob]

40% of the people who work in our office are Chinese or Asian, maybe I should do a straw poll.

[Lord Jim]

I can't think of a worse possible way for one to believe they are informed about the attitudes of people living in a totalitarian dictatorship then to rely on the anecdotal statements of folks who risk losing everything they have (and reprisals against their families) if they criticize the regime's fundamental policies...

How can anyone be so foolhardy as to believe they are getting an accurate assessment under those circumstances? In addition to world class naivete, it really takes an enormous amount of arrogance and hubris to believe one is actually being told the truth by folks facing those sorts of consequences...

For once rube, use your head for more than a hat rack, and try applying a modicum of commonsense...

[rubato]

Pure fulminating jackasses with nothing valuable to say.


I work, and have worked, with a lot of people who grew up in C. China and then moved here to become US citizens or permanent residents as well as many who work in our Shanghai R&D group and some who have moved back and forth. On the whole they report that the Chinese people don't really care about elections or civil rights so much as improving their material std of living. This is rather to be expected since they are just emerging from generations of starvation and fear and having 'enough' and being confident of having 'enough' are new things for many of them. One friend who emigrated a little over 20 years ago said that his main motivation was because of the terrible pollution in China*, not politics, but again, that is a part of material well-being.

The people from our Shanghai group who have been here for a few months at a time actually laughed at Americans who thought the Chinese cared about democracy enough to do anything about it.

They have a Confucian attitude about government which I will leave you to research on your own. Or you can make up some more pure bullshit instead. Suit yourselves.

Their culture has a different history. They have not been marinated in the ideas of democracy, personal freedom, civil liberty and respect for the individual that Westerners have for two centuries.

Look north at Russia and how easily the Russian people have accepted a near- totalitarian government from Putin in exchange for 'stability' ?


yrs,
rubato

* When I asked if he thought it would get better he said "not in my lifetime".

[rubato]

If politics is to become scientific, and if the event is not to be constantly surprising, it is imperative that our political thinking should penetrate more deeply into the springs of human action. What is the influence of hunger upon slogans? How does their effectiveness fluctuate with the number of calories in your diet? If one man offers you democracy and another offers you a bag of grain, at what stage of starvation will you prefer the grain to the vote? Such questions are far too little considered.

B. Russell



These are people I have known for periods between 9 and 16 years.


yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

For once rube, use your head for more than a hat rack, and try applying a modicum of commonsense...

I knew the moment I typed that, that it was too much to hope for....