Pineda ejected for having pine tar on neck
Righty knows he 'made a mistake,' [yeah, he got caught]and Yanks expect he'll get suspended
BOSTON -- The Yankees expect that Michael Pineda will have to serve a suspension after the right-hander was ejected from Wednesday's start against the Red Sox at Fenway Park for pitching with pine tar smeared on the right side of his neck.
Official Rule 8.02 states: "The pitcher shall not apply a foreign substance of any kind to the ball." Pineda admitted that he applied pine tar to himself before the second inning, saying that he was having trouble gripping the ball on a cold evening and did not want to hit any batters.[So he did it purely out of consideration for others...]
"I know I made a mistake," Pineda said. "I feel so sad today. It was a really cold night and in the first inning I [didn't] have a really good grip on the ball."[so naturally I cheated...]
Pineda also appeared to have pine tar on his palm during an April 10 start against the Red Sox at Yankee Stadium, but Boston didn't complain that night because the substance disappeared the inning after Red Sox manager John Farrell was made aware of it.
This time, Farrell spotted the smudge on Pineda's neck quite clearly and brought the issue to the attention of home-plate umpire and crew chief Gerry Davis, interrupting a 1-2 count on Grady Sizemore with two outs in the second inning.
"I could see it from the dugout," Farrell said. "It was confirmed by a number of camera angles in the ballpark. And given the last time we faced him, I felt like it was a necessity to say something."
Davis went to the mound, first looking at Pineda's glove and his pitching hand. Davis instructed Pineda to turn around, then pointed and touched the spot on Pineda's neck before ejecting him from the game.
"John Farrell mentioned that he felt he had a foreign substance on his person, and [we] went out to check him and he did," Davis said.
Manager Joe Girardi and pitching coach Larry Rothschild had multiple discussions with Pineda after the April 10 outing, trying to make Pineda aware that pine tar use is illegal and that he would be risking discipline from the league by continuing to do so.
"We certainly are responsible," general manager Brian Cashman said. "There's certainly failure on our part as an organization as a whole that he took the field in the second inning with that on his neck. He's responsible for his actions, but we failed as an organization for somehow him being in that position."
Girardi said that Pineda's decision to apply the pine tar was unknown to the team, and that he used "poor judgment" on Wednesday. Rothschild said that Pineda might have believed that on a windy, 50-degree night, the ends would have justified the means.
"I'm not sure that he understood the implications,[The guy's been a pro player since 2006, in the majors since 2011, was just reminded about it less than 2 weeks ago, and he "didn't understand the implications?" Really? That's your story? What a complete crock] and I think it was more in his mind that he needed to grip the baseball," Rothschild said. "Whatever he had to do, I'm not sure if he thought there'd be an understanding of it, but it's one of those things where I'm not sure he understood what the penalties were -- even though I had told him what could happen. I think in his mind, he needed to grip the baseball."
In the future, Pineda said that he will "go out there and pitch my game. I won't use it anymore."
You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
Re: You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
I just heard another story about this...I can't decide which is worse...
The flagrant rule infraction itself, or the incredibly dumbassed, intelligence insulting explanations and excuses that came forth from Pineda and Girardi...
They ought to both be suspended for coming up with such ridiculous explanations...
The flagrant rule infraction itself, or the incredibly dumbassed, intelligence insulting explanations and excuses that came forth from Pineda and Girardi...
They ought to both be suspended for coming up with such ridiculous explanations...
Re: You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
The pitching coach didn't buy many fans after his explanation either. But this is Boston, we hate the Yankees.
The thing is, everyone uses pine tar and some point. On a cold cold night, you really do need it to help grip the ball. But don't be obvious about it -- that was the stupid part. Particularly when you were already called out for doing it THE LAST TIME YOU PITCHED AGAINST THE SAME TEAM.
The thing is, everyone uses pine tar and some point. On a cold cold night, you really do need it to help grip the ball. But don't be obvious about it -- that was the stupid part. Particularly when you were already called out for doing it THE LAST TIME YOU PITCHED AGAINST THE SAME TEAM.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Re: You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
Well in that case maybe the thing to do is change the rule, rather then have the defacto rule be, "it's okay to do it so long as you're not obvious about it"...The thing is, everyone uses pine tar and some point. On a cold cold night, you really do need it to help grip the ball.
Maybe the rule should permit pine tar to be used if the temperature at the start of the game is below "X" and the league should provide the approved substance, (so the players don't start just using anything they want).
That seems like a better idea than having a rule that it's okay to ignore as long as you're discreet; seems to me that kind of approach tends to breed disregard for the rules, (which is just about the last thing baseball needs.)
Re: You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
Pineda got a 10 day suspension. He should claim discrimination and get the rule changed to allow pine tar usage for pitchers.
It should be called the Pineda tar amendment.
It should be called the Pineda tar amendment.
Re: You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
They moan about "pine tar", but don't mind the catchers having a huge bucket on their hands? 
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
Yeah, well they're catching fastballs thrown at 90 to 100 MPH, and the pitchers are expected to deliver their pitches all the way across the plate without having to bounce them to get them there...(gee, what a concept...)
Right back at ya....
Right back at ya....Re: You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
If pitching in the big leagues were as easy as bowling in cricket we would see droves of cricketers moving over to the much higher-paying job.Gob wrote:They moan about "pine tar", but don't mind the catchers having a huge bucket on their hands?
None so far. None.
yrs,
rubato
Re: You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
With 70 MPH being considered a "fast ball", (from a running start) bouncing the ball to get it to the plate, and no strike zone to have to hit, a middle aged blind man could probably be a successful pro cricket bowler... 
Re: You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
You ought to give it a go then Jim... 
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?
Re: You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
We've seen that happen Sean...
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
Silly episode.
The baseball rule is intended to prevent pitchers (or anyone else) putting something ON THE BALL that will affect its flight. Pine tar is not applied to the ball, but rather TO THE FINGERS, so that the pitcher can grip it better. There is no advantage whatsoever to applying pine tar to a baseball; it doesn't affect the flight of the ball at all, and would actually make the spin of the ball more visible. There are products made for bowling that make the fingers a little bit tacky, and if Pin-head-a had used one of those products (they are odorless and colorless) he would have been fine.
The baseball rule is intended to prevent pitchers (or anyone else) putting something ON THE BALL that will affect its flight. Pine tar is not applied to the ball, but rather TO THE FINGERS, so that the pitcher can grip it better. There is no advantage whatsoever to applying pine tar to a baseball; it doesn't affect the flight of the ball at all, and would actually make the spin of the ball more visible. There are products made for bowling that make the fingers a little bit tacky, and if Pin-head-a had used one of those products (they are odorless and colorless) he would have been fine.
Re: You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
I don't know; if the pine tar allows you to grip the ball more tightly/securely, you could get a lot more spin on the ball; that could easily translate into a bigger break on a curve ball or more back spin, and loft, on a fast ball. I think that's why it's not permitted under the rules and you can't put pine tar on or fingers or the ball. My guess is the bowling substances would also not be allowed.
Re: You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
Big RR wrote:I don't know; if the pine tar allows you to grip the ball more tightly/securely, you could get a lot more spin on the ball; that could easily translate into a bigger break on a curve ball or more back spin, and loft, on a fast ball. I think that's why it's not permitted under the rules and you can't put pine tar on or fingers or the ball. My guess is the bowling substances would also not be allowed.
The equivalent in cricket is to rough up one side of the ball, which makes it spin more. Players have been caught using beer bottle tops to do that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_tampering
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
Nah. He couldn't grip the ball properly because of the cold.
What he did was completely harmless. There was no allegation whatsoever that the flight of any pitch was anything other than normal.
Very analogous to the George Brett pine tar episode of a few decades ago. The pine tar didn't help him hit the ball or make it go farther, it just allowed him to grip the bat a little better.
Much ado about nothing at all.
What he did was completely harmless. There was no allegation whatsoever that the flight of any pitch was anything other than normal.
Very analogous to the George Brett pine tar episode of a few decades ago. The pine tar didn't help him hit the ball or make it go farther, it just allowed him to grip the bat a little better.
Much ado about nothing at all.
Re: You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
There's a bit of difference. In the Brett incident, the rule said that the pine tar could not extend up the bat more than a certain distance (thus a batter could use pine tar t grip the bat more tightly); in ruling for the Royals and Brett in the dispute, the Commissioner (as I recall) said that pine tar covering even the entire bat would not have made the batter able to hit any better than just having it where he gripped the bat (indeed, it might have made it worse), and said the rule was originally enacted to prevent the balls from being covered and discolored by pine tar on the bat. He reversed the umpire's ruling on the field (calling Brett out) and ordered the game be resumed at a later date when the Royals were again in town. I recall a lot of pro-Yankee writers bitching about the decision, but I don't recall anyone saying that the tar could have affected Brett's hitting positively.
Here you have a rule saying the pitcher cannot use any foreign substances to allow for a better gripping or release of the ball as it can affect the trajectory of the pitch. The pine tar here could have affected the trajectory of the pitch (as I said above). Did it? I don't know, I didn't see the game; but that's the problem the rule was enacted to resolve--the pine tar giving the pitcher an illegal advantage (something the pine tar did not give Brett as the rules clearly allowed pine tar on the handle precisely so it could be used to get a better grip). In such a case, I think rule the was properly applied, even though no variations in pitch trajectories were mentioned.
As Jim said above, if baseball wants to allow pitcher to use pine tar to grip the balls better, the rule can be changed.
Here you have a rule saying the pitcher cannot use any foreign substances to allow for a better gripping or release of the ball as it can affect the trajectory of the pitch. The pine tar here could have affected the trajectory of the pitch (as I said above). Did it? I don't know, I didn't see the game; but that's the problem the rule was enacted to resolve--the pine tar giving the pitcher an illegal advantage (something the pine tar did not give Brett as the rules clearly allowed pine tar on the handle precisely so it could be used to get a better grip). In such a case, I think rule the was properly applied, even though no variations in pitch trajectories were mentioned.
As Jim said above, if baseball wants to allow pitcher to use pine tar to grip the balls better, the rule can be changed.
Re: You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
Isn't it possible to put enough pine tar on a baseball to affect its flight? I haven't heard anybody mention that. Any substance a pitcher has on him could be used on the ball. Also, if they were to say it's okay for a pitcher to have some pine tar on him, imagine all of the things he could use that look like pine tar.
Re: You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
Rule 3.02 No player shall intentionally discolor or damage the ball by rubbing it with soil,
rosin, paraffin, licorice, sand-paper, emery-paper or other foreign substance.
PENALTY: The umpire shall demand the ball and remove the offender from the
game. In addition, the offender shall be suspended automatically for 10 games. (emphasis added)
The rule clearly pertains to discoloring or damaging THE BALL. There is NO indication in this matter than the ball was discolored, scuffed, soiled, or affected in any way other than possibly having microscopic, invisible, and insignificant trace amounts of pine tar, similar to the amount of human sweat that might be imparted on a 90 degree (F) summer's day.
rosin, paraffin, licorice, sand-paper, emery-paper or other foreign substance.
PENALTY: The umpire shall demand the ball and remove the offender from the
game. In addition, the offender shall be suspended automatically for 10 games. (emphasis added)
The rule clearly pertains to discoloring or damaging THE BALL. There is NO indication in this matter than the ball was discolored, scuffed, soiled, or affected in any way other than possibly having microscopic, invisible, and insignificant trace amounts of pine tar, similar to the amount of human sweat that might be imparted on a 90 degree (F) summer's day.
Re: You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
Emphasis added.8.02 The pitcher shall not—...
(b) Have on his person, or in his possession, any foreign substance. For such infraction of this section (b) the penalty shall be immediate ejection from the game. In addition, the pitcher shall be suspended automatically. In National Association Leagues, the automatic suspension shall be for 10 games.
There is no getting around the fact that pine tar is a "foreign substance", that Pineda's neck is part of "his person", and that therefore he violated this rule by being found with pine tar on his neck. Hs fingers would likewise be part of his person, and applying pine tar to his fingers would likewise be a violation of this rule.
"Hang on while I log in to the James Webb telescope to search the known universe for who the fuck asked you." -- James Fell
Re: You Just Can't Trust Them Yankees....
Even with padded mitts, catching a 100MPH pitch HURTS!Gob wrote:They moan about "pine tar", but don't mind the catchers having a huge bucket on their hands?
Treat Gaza like Carthage.