Come out of the closet Americans

[Gob]

Atheists in the US are rallying together, launching a new TV programme and providing support for those who go public with their beliefs.

"Sometimes things need to be said, and fights need to be fought even if they are unpopular. To the closeted atheists, you are not alone, and you deserve equality."

So goes the rousing speech from the American Atheists president, David Silverman, in the opening moments of the first US television broadcaster dedicated to those who do not believe in God, Atheist TV.

A series of testimonies from prominent atheists then follows.

"It's one of the best decisions I've ever made in my life and I completely advocate people 'coming out'," says Mark Hatcher, from Black Atheists of America.

"Coming out" is how many atheists in the USA describe what remains, for many, a very difficult admission to make publicly.

At one of the biggest gatherings of atheist students in the country, in Columbus, Ohio, Jamila Bey from the Secular Student Alliance said there were many attendees who were nervous about being interviewed and had indicated so by what they were wearing around their neck.

"Red lanyards mean 'You may not talk to me'," says Bey. "A number of the students we have aren't 'out'. Their parents may not know that they are atheist or questioning their religion."

She said many were worried about being ostracised or were even scared of violence if they revealed they did not believe in God.

Lasan Dancay-Bangura, 22, is happy to talk to us. He is, after all, head of his university's atheist student group. He lets out a deep, sad sigh as he recalls the moment he told his mother he was an atheist.

"Things were really not good to begin with. She was so angry," he says.

"After a while I think she just accepted it. We still don't talk about it. It looks like she's not going to kick me out."

Dancay-Bangura admits that he still has not told his father.

"I don't want our relationship to be destroyed because of that," he says. "You hear it all the time."

"And you hear about people being kicked out, and sent to bible camps where they're forced to be religious. I don't want to lose my father to that."

The parents of Katelyn Campbell, 19, from West Virginia, have been very supportive of her stance as an atheist. Her problem has been other members of the community. "In high school, when I walked down the hallway it would be completely silent, or I would be spat on," Katelyn says.

Two years ago, she protested against the inclusion of religion and abstinence in her school sex education classes. She is still feeling the impact.

"Often times I'm really uncomfortable being out in public spaces in my community at home because people often bring that discussion to my face, which is a discussion of values that are very personal and very private," she says.

A recent poll conducted by the Pew Research Centre shows Americans would rather have a president who was either in their 70s, or openly gay, or who had never held any public office than one that was atheist.

Astonishingly, a previous poll by Pew suggested respondents in the US regarded atheists as less trustworthy than rapists. One of Atheist TV's new phone-in programmes, The Atheist Experience, has already had a taste of how many Americans perceive "non-believers".

"So you were studying to be a minister, and now you don't believe in God? You're the devil," one caller tells the host. "You're a Marxist, you're an atheist and you're from Russia," says another.

At the atheist student event in Ohio, they are trying to change things.

T-shirts are laid out for sale on one of the vending tables. "Godless Goddess" says one; "This is what an atheist looks like" says another.

Beside the stall stands Andrew Seidel, an attorney for the Freedom from Religion Foundation. "Many Americans think they have never met another atheist, but that is because so many are afraid to publicly acknowledge it," says Andrew.

"The way we'll win this fight is because of demographics. Just like it was really important for the LGBT movement to come out of the closet, it's important for us to say it loud and say it proud, 'I'm an atheist!'"

Who is an atheist?

• 2% of US adults say they are atheists

• 67% of them are men

• 26% of them see themselves as spiritual

Source: Pew Research Center

And it does appear the demographics are changing, particularly among the young, where the proportion of those identifying themselves as "religiously unaffiliated" is rising.

But America has a much higher proportion of people who say religion is very important to them as compared to European countries.

"America is an anomaly because, number one, we were founded by Puritans," says Jamila Bey from the Secular Student Alliance.

More recently, particularly for the African-American community in the civil rights struggle, but also for many other minority communities, Bey says she feels religion became a way of gaining acceptance.

"It was a way to say 'I'm a good Christian, you shouldn't turn fire hoses on me, and you should let my child go to the school with little white children, Jesus loves us all'," she says.

The new TV channel is part of atheist groups' own civil rights movement.

But real acceptance, particularly for those serving in public office, in a country where no serving congressman or woman is openly atheist, could still be some way off.

See also.

[Crackpot]

I think they're closeted because they don't want to be associated with the assholes (for the most part) that are leading the pack.

[BoSoxGal]

[TPFKA@W]

I choose to identify myself as agnostic which I choose to intepret as meaning that I have no idea what's out there with respect to a God. I think athiests are pretty arrogant to assume they have any better handle on what Is or Is Not than any religion. My very religious friends pray for me which I encourage as I figure it can do real harm.

[Gob]

[Jarlaxle]

If asked, I'm agnostic. "Irreligious" would be more accurate...but from most people, that would elicit a puzzled look and/or "huh?"

[Lord Jim]

I think they're closeted because they don't want to be associated with the assholes (for the most part) that are leading the pack.

I know exactly what CP is talking about...

There are many folks who have been in the forefront of the "Atheist Movement" who are the most snide, sneering, full-of-their-own superiority, condescending folks one would ever hope to meet... (or hope not to meet)

I personally know persons of the Atheist Faith who don't act this way, (or maybe they just don't act that way towards me) but the next time I see a well known Atheist acting with respect rather than with sophomoric ridicule towards a person of another Faith in a debate, will be the first time...

I'm a big fan of the late Christopher Hitchens, but he was a classic example of this on this topic...

And that Dawkins character is another...

And now there are a number of other folks about who are apparently using Hitchens and Dawkins as their template for how to "win friends and influence people"...

Yes, the best way to open an honest debate is always to accuse those who disagree with you of being, stupid, ignorant, superstitious and believing in "fairy tales"...

Always a winning gambit...

Small wonder that a lot of folks who experience a crisis or doubt of faith would prefer to "stay in the closet" rather than be associated with those sorts of well...

Assholes...

[BoSoxGal]

There are many folks who have been in the forefront of American Christianity who are the most snide, sneering, full-of-their-own superiority, condescending folks one would ever hope to meet... (or hope not to meet)

Fixed that for you.


eta: In all seriousness, it's a pot calling the kettle black scenario - there are obnoxious Atheists, but there are just as many - if not more - obnoxious Christians who fit the description you gave to a tee - and who I would call assholes, too.

Most of the Athiests I know stay in the closet except among friends they know and trust because they become subject to ridicule and/or outright attack if they confess their Atheism within range of a Christian. Pot . . . meet kettle.

[Crackpot]

The thing you're missing is the division of most world religions into various sects which allows large portions of of those in a nominally similar faith to disavow what they don't like while keeping what they do. Atheism (as of yet) does not have that luxury.

[Lord Jim]

There are many folks who have been in the forefront of American Christianity who are the most snide, sneering, full-of-there-own superiority, condescending folks one would ever hope to meet... (or hope not to meet)

Fixed that for you.

No, actually you didn't, because if you had, you would have "fixed" my hastily posted misuse of "there" when I should have used "their"...

Which I have now gone back and corrected, so you (and any other grammar OCD types who might be lurking about) can rest more easily...

[BoSoxGal]

The thing you're missing is the division of most world religions into various sects which allows large portions of of those in a nominally similar faith to disavow what they don't like while keeping what they do. Atheism (as of yet) does not have that luxury.

How do you figure? Atheism has no dogma - atheists just don't believe in a God, or gods.

There are some folks who are activist about their atheism, and many, many more who are not. There is no mandatory affiliation with any secular organization - those are just clubs for people who want to hang out with other atheists and get activist about promoting secularism and separation of church and state - but atheists aren't stuck with a Pope, a Mullah, an Ayatollah, etc. In that regard, there is no comparison.

[Joe Guy]

Which I have now gone back and corrected, so you (and any other grammar OCD types who might be lurking about) can rest more easily...

You could have done without those parentheses. Constant usage of unnecessary parenthetical comments could turn out to be a detrimental contribution to the common understanding of grammar and cause confusion and frustration amongst the readers. Especially those to whom English is a second language, like those Aussies, Brits and citizens of Chester VT.

[rubato]

The thing you're missing is the division of most world religions into various sects which allows large portions of of those in a nominally similar faith to disavow what they don't like while keeping what they do. Atheism (as of yet) does not have that luxury.

How do you figure? Atheists don't have any fixed ideology. Saying that there is no god or are no gods rather opens the field for what they do believe in. And most atheists, when they are being very painfully correct will admit that in fact they are agnostics.

And people reject religion for many reasons. Some reject it because there is no physical evidence that it is true. Others reject it because they have read history and seen that a belief in god is most often an excuse for torture and genocide. Some reject it because they find the assertions implausible and unenlightening, not useful. Some reject it because they have seen that religion has stopped human progress and kept people in needless misery.

Hylozoists and pure Materialists are atheists of very different stripes.

yrs,
rubato

[Crackpot]

You both nailed it. Until atheism can define itself beyond by what it's not than it will be forever be "lead" by those screaming like howler monkeys against what it's not. Unless it can start to show people what what it means to be atheists and what it has to offer it will forever be relegated to the "tea party of religions". Ironically what atheism most needs is some sort of systematic theology.

[rubato]

You both nailed it. Until atheism can define itself beyond by what it's not than it will be forever be "lead" by those screaming like howler monkeys against what it's not. Unless it can start to show people what what it means to be atheists and what it has to offer it will forever be relegated to the "tea party of religions". Ironically what atheism most needs is some sort of systematic theology.

I think you failed to read the post.

Rejecting a useless theory about nothing does not create a need for something to replace it. It reveals the uselessness and harm of false belief.


yrs,
rubato

[Crackpot]

You are the one failing to comprehend if your sole definition is a rejection of something that's all it will ever be. It is choosing to define oneself by what you are not and most people have the common sense to want more for them selves than that. If all you can muster as a unifying force is a common dislike (which will always be lead by those that hate the most) then that will be all that it will ever mean. If you offer nothing but hate none but the hateful will join.

[BoSoxGal]

You have a very strange understanding of atheism, Crackpot.

Additionally, there are a lot of us out here in the world - atheists or not - who don't feel such a need to define ourselves via affiliation with some group, whether religious or other. You may feel that, and that's fine - but I don't.

I wouldn't say I'm an atheist, but probably fairly close (I harbor a tiny shred of doubt about my conviction that there is no divine presence in the world).

I don't hate religion - I don't like some of what religion results in, and I don't like it shoved down my throat by folks who can't help themselves from evangelizing. I also don't want anybody's religion mixed up in my country's government, or in my reproductive rights.

I don't need to meet up with other people who think like me to feel okay about my existence.

[Big RR]

BSG--

I don't hate religion - I don't like some of what religion results in, and I don't like it shoved down my throat by folks who can't help themselves from evangelizing. I also don't want anybody's religion mixed up in my country's government, or in my reproductive rights.

I don't need to meet up with other people who think like me to feel okay about my existence.

I agree with you 100% there, and I do not consider myself atheist at all; indeed, I consider myself religious in my own way. I don't see it as hateful, more as pragmatic. And I don't see it as nonreligious, either.

Crackpot--

You are the one failing to comprehend if your sole definition is a rejection of something that's all it will ever be. It is choosing to define oneself by what you are not

But isn't that what atheism is by definition, a lack of belief in a god or supreme being? isn't that what the term a-theist connotes? If there is a different definition I am unaware of it. And how this translates to a hatred of the theists and their beliefs is beyond me; most professed atheists I have met are quite willing to tolerate religious belief so long as it is not crammed down their throats or used to control/dictate laws on social behavior, as are most religious people who don't share those beliefs..

[rubato]

You are the one failing to comprehend if your sole definition is a rejection of something that's all it will ever be. It is choosing to define oneself by what you are not and most people have the common sense to want more for them selves than that. If all you can muster as a unifying force is a common dislike (which will always be lead by those that hate the most) then that will be all that it will ever mean. If you offer nothing but hate none but the hateful will join.

You still don't read the posts do you!

I gave different reasons for and types of atheism.

Attributing "hatred" and "dislike" as motives is the product of your own imagination.


Now go look up the meanings of "hylozoism" and "materialism" and read them.


yrs,
rubato

[Crackpot]

Are you people completely missing the central question of this thread? Why aren't atheists "coming out of the closet?" The answer quite simply is because outside of creating conflict for the sake of conflict coming out atheist has nothing to offer. (At least in any society that allows for freedom of religion). It has no code no ethics no offer of an understanding of where you belong in the universe. All it provides as a declaration is an opposition to something else. Now let me be abundantly clear this has nothing to do with what an individual atheist feels or believes or thinks about their place in the universe it is just the bleak truth as to what's beyond the "closet door".

If you disagree with me fine but don't tell me I don't get it unless you can at least give me an example of what coming out atheist does for the individual outside of placing a direct opposition to religion.