The state is big and powerful and violent and can hurt you

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liberty
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Re: The state is big and powerful and violent and can hurt y

Post by liberty »

Econoline wrote:Something worth thinking about...
It's important, when something goes wrong, to be clear about what it is that's at issue. Talking up Michael Brown as this season's Trayvonesque angel of peace and scholarship was foolish, and looting stores in his saintly memory even worse. But this week's pictures from Ferguson, such as the one above, ought to be profoundly disquieting to those Americans of a non-looting bent.

The most basic problem is that we will never know for certain what happened. Why? Because the Ferguson cruiser did not have a camera recording the incident. That's simply not credible. "Law" "enforcement" in Ferguson apparently has at its disposal tear gas, riot gear, armored vehicles and machine guns ...but not a dashcam. That's ridiculous. I remember a few years ago when my one-man police department in New Hampshire purchased a camera for its cruiser. It's about as cheap and basic a police expense as there is. [...]In 2014, when a police cruiser doesn't have a camera, it's a conscious choice. And it should be regarded as such.

And, if we have to have federal subsidy programs for municipal police departments, we should scrap the one that gives them the second-hand military hardware from Tikrit and Kandahar and replace it with one that ensures every patrol car has a camera.
The entire (much longer) blog post by Mark Steyn is well worth reading.

That is a very good idea and even better would be the addition of body cameras with audio.

also I would recommend making the sheriff and the local state police commander responsible BY LAW for the professional quality of police (city, County and state) in their jurisdictions. Sheriff Should regularly visit and inspect local police departments and hold public meeting on policing matters.

The penalty I would recommend for failure to supervise other than dismissal would be to stand in the dock in lieu of resignation and face their critics either at the local court house or state capital.

The one thing that gives me pause makes me ready to withdraw the idea is that some people would politicize it. They would try to publicly humiliate a good man who did the best he could.
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

liberty
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Re: The state is big and powerful and violent and can hurt y

Post by liberty »

I have been thinking about what I said in my post, that it might give the impression that I am opposed to the police. That is not the case. Unless we all plan on carrying our own guns twenty four hours a day we need the police. But I agree with Rubuto, all forms of power are dangerous. All I was saying is that we need to developer some type of safe guard to insure that the police operate appropriately.

Do you remember the Duke rape case; has anything changed to prevent that from happening again?


I am not coming to any conclusion on the Ferguson shooting until I have all the facts.
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: The state is big and powerful and violent and can hurt y

Post by BoSoxGal »

liberty wrote:Do you remember the Duke rape case; has anything changed to prevent that from happening again?
Yes; I just attended the National District Attorneys Association Career Prosecutor course in June, and Mike Nifong's abuse of power in the Duke lacrosse team rape prosecution was a focal point of discussion in the prosecutorial ethics session. I've heard that case mentioned at several prosecution trainings that I have attended over the past few years - so, yes, things have changed to prevent that from happening again - which is not to say that it couldn't happen again, because there are bad apple prosecutors just as there are bad apple cops and bad apples in all professions.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

rubato
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Re: The state is big and powerful and violent and can hurt y

Post by rubato »

Well if it was a 'focal point' then it won't ever happen again fer sure.

I mean, a complete 'focal point'! Wow.

yrs,
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Lord Jim
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Re: The state is big and powerful and violent and can hurt y

Post by Lord Jim »

rubato wrote:Well if it was a 'focal point' then it won't ever happen again fer sure.

I mean, a complete 'focal point'! Wow.

yrs,
rubato
which is not to say that it couldn't happen again,
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rubato
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Re: The state is big and powerful and violent and can hurt y

Post by rubato »

I guess there are people illiterate enough to require a more explicit description.
to prevent that from happening again
was followed by
which is not to say that it couldn't happen again
So apparently something as grand and powerful as a focal point was effective in both preventing it from happening again and not effective in preventing it from happening again, at the same time.


Sorry for those 99.9 % of you who got it the first time but there is that 0.1%. who are a little slow and reasoning impaired and we do want them to achieve what they can.


yrs,
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Lord Jim
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Re: The state is big and powerful and violent and can hurt y

Post by Lord Jim »

LOL!!! :lol:

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Lord Jim
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Re: The state is big and powerful and violent and can hurt y

Post by Lord Jim »

Post deleted because it didn't meet my standards for rube derision...
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BoSoxGal
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Re: The state is big and powerful and violent and can hurt y

Post by BoSoxGal »

What do you propose, rubato? It's my understanding there was a full investigation and Nifong was disbarred; now he's a lesson to other prosecutors. That's how it works in the legal profession - I believe it's substantially similar in other professions.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3285862&page=1
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Lord Jim
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Re: The state is big and powerful and violent and can hurt y

Post by Lord Jim »

Personally I was not happy that Nifong, who had knowingly pursued a bogus prosecution for rape against three innocent people in order to win election to a term as DA and increase the value of his pension, was sentenced to only a single day in jail; he should have done a lot more time than that (10 years sounds about right):
Nifong was ordered disbarred on June 16, 2007 after the bar's three-member disciplinary panel unanimously found him guilty of fraud, dishonesty, deceit or misrepresentation; of making false statements of material fact before a judge; of making false statements of material fact before bar investigators, and of lying about withholding exculpatory DNA evidence.[99][100]

On August 31, 2007, Nifong was convicted of criminal contempt for knowingly making false statements during the criminal proceedings. Superior Court Judge W. Osmond Smith III sentenced Nifong to a single day in jail.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case
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BoSoxGal
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Re: The state is big and powerful and violent and can hurt y

Post by BoSoxGal »

I don't disagree - if a prosecutor commits intentional misconduct resulting in a wrongful conviction, s/he should serve equal time as the wrongfully convicted person.

In the Nifong example, his life is now irrevocably altered, as were the lives of the young men he wrongly pursued. There is some justice in that; justice is infrequently the product of our system, sadly.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

Jarlaxle
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Re: The state is big and powerful and violent and can hurt y

Post by Jarlaxle »

He should have gotten a year in maximum security's general population, with "BENT DA" tattooed on his face.

That, or three consecutive life terms, served 24 hours a day, 365 days a year in solitary confinement.
Treat Gaza like Carthage.

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Gob
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Re: The state is big and powerful and violent and can hurt y

Post by Gob »

You big old softee Jarl...
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

liberty
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Re: The state is big and powerful and violent and can hurt y

Post by liberty »

In terns of a fix for a problem both a casual lessons learned approach and a focus are poor solutions. In time, lessons can be forgotten and a focus can fad, but a government program can last forever.
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

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