My subject line was only there to get your attention. It is not meant to disregard the seriousness of domestic violence. What's crazy about this story is that this video is from the day before these two were married.
It's Ray Rice, football player for the Baltimore Ravens, and his (now) wife.
(pardon me if this event has already been discussed but I couldn't find it in a search)
He Hit Me - and it Felt Like a Kiss....
Re: He Hit Me - and it Felt Like a Kiss....
She needs to work on her guard, wading in with her hands down, open target.
I wonder how long the "marriage" will last now he's been sacked? No more meal ticket.
I wonder how long the "marriage" will last now he's been sacked? No more meal ticket.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: He Hit Me - and it Felt Like a Kiss....
Joe--actually it was around a month before they married, but point taken. You have to wonder...
But the real idiocy here is the NFL and the team--they all say they never saw this video, but video previously released to the public (and who knows what else they had) shows him dragging her, unconscious, out of the elevator--what did they think he did in there--wish her unconscious? They know damn well he hit her, but they gave him a minor suspension. They even have some players in the NFL who pled guilty to domestic violence charges and are still playing (hell, one of rice's teammates, Ray Lewis, was involved in a fight outside a club a number of years back that led to a murder, but I don't even recall him being suspended), but then the hypocrites wring their hands and play they care when an incident like this one catches the public eye. Pretty disgusting all around.
But the real idiocy here is the NFL and the team--they all say they never saw this video, but video previously released to the public (and who knows what else they had) shows him dragging her, unconscious, out of the elevator--what did they think he did in there--wish her unconscious? They know damn well he hit her, but they gave him a minor suspension. They even have some players in the NFL who pled guilty to domestic violence charges and are still playing (hell, one of rice's teammates, Ray Lewis, was involved in a fight outside a club a number of years back that led to a murder, but I don't even recall him being suspended), but then the hypocrites wring their hands and play they care when an incident like this one catches the public eye. Pretty disgusting all around.
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Sue U
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Re: He Hit Me - and it Felt Like a Kiss....
The wedding was more like six or seven weeks later. They were married the day after he was indicted for aggravated assault. (She was charged with simple assault as well.)
Janay Palmer-Rice is standing by her man. And while it is NEVER okay to resort to physical violence, there is no way that we can know what actually goes on in their marriage. I'm not going to offer any opinion on the matter, other than to say both the Ravens and the NFL have done an exceptionally poor job in managing their parts.
Janay Palmer-Rice is standing by her man. And while it is NEVER okay to resort to physical violence, there is no way that we can know what actually goes on in their marriage. I'm not going to offer any opinion on the matter, other than to say both the Ravens and the NFL have done an exceptionally poor job in managing their parts.
GAH!
Re: He Hit Me - and it Felt Like a Kiss....
I must have mishearmembered the timeline regarding the punch and the marriage. I've only heard some talk on the radio about this incident and it always seemed like they were talking about a punch one day and marriage the next day.
Anyway, I hope the woman wises up and Price gets punished appropriately.
I hate men who beat women. They are among the lowest scum of the earth.
Anyway, I hope the woman wises up and Price gets punished appropriately.
I hate men who beat women. They are among the lowest scum of the earth.
Re: He Hit Me - and it Felt Like a Kiss....
Assuming that Goodel and the Raven management are telling the truth about not having seen this video before yesterday, I actually have more blame for the Atlantic County prosecutor's office, that gave him access to the Intervention Program, then I do for the NFL. There's no dispute that the prosecutor's office had this video prior to making that decision:
If the NFL and the team management hadn't seen the video, what they had to work with at the time they were determining how to handle the situation, was a prosecutor's office that had decided not to pursue charges, and a fiancee/wife who not only had no desire to pursue a complaint, but had in fact appeared before the league investigators to ask that Rice not receive a lengthy suspension.
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_j ... CTqTUjW.99The prosecutor's office obtained the video from inside the elevator before approving Rice for the intervention program. At the time, the public had only seen video aftermath of the incident - Rice dragging his wife's unconscious body out of the elevator.
If the NFL and the team management hadn't seen the video, what they had to work with at the time they were determining how to handle the situation, was a prosecutor's office that had decided not to pursue charges, and a fiancee/wife who not only had no desire to pursue a complaint, but had in fact appeared before the league investigators to ask that Rice not receive a lengthy suspension.
Well, a person being falling down drunk in the elevator of a casino hotel is not unheard of...I've seen it a couple of times...shows him dragging her, unconscious, out of the elevator--what did they think he did in there--wish her unconscious?
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Sue U
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Re: He Hit Me - and it Felt Like a Kiss....
The prosecutor's office didn't "gve him access" to pre-trial intervention. It is the court that determines eligibility for PTI and recommends its terms and conditions, on an application from the defendant. PTI is available in NJ for virtually every first offender charged with an indictable offense -- especially where rehabilitative services are likely to be beneficial and where alternative disposition meets the needs of the victim, the defendant and the public. While it is true that both the prosecutor and the defendant have to agree to the court's terms, there's no legitimate reason to treat Ray Rice any differently than any other defendant in similar circumstances.Lord Jim wrote:I actually have more blame for the Atlantic County prosecutor's office, that gave him access to the Intervention Program, then I do for the NFL. There's no dispute that the prosecutor's office had this video prior to making that decision:
GAH!
Re: He Hit Me - and it Felt Like a Kiss....
He admitted to hitting her, and I think she conformed it--the NFL never thought he was just dragging her out of the elevator because she was drunk.Well, a person being falling down drunk in the elevator of a casino hotel is not unheard of...I've seen it a couple of times...
sue--that's what I thought as well; I've had misdemeanor and juvenile offenders get deferred disposition (which is a lot like PTI) for violent offenses like street or bar fights--this is a lot like that. SO far as I know, there is nothing special about domestic violence that bars PTI, and I would think a first offender could benefit far more from counseling services (like Rice is receiving) rather than a jail sentence.
I met Rice a couple of times when he was at Rutgers (at meeting the players events) and he seemed to be a genuinely nice and level headed guy--he was especially good with dealing with the kids (like my daughter) who he interacted with quite well. Maybe he was a closet abuser, but I think it is just as likely that they were drunk and he snapped--not an excuse, but a warning that he was carrying something around inside him he had to face. Hopefully for his, her, and his family's sake, he will take advantage of this opportunity and get the help he needs, leaving his aggression on the field where it belongs. After all, that is what PTI is for.
As for the NFL, it needs to get consistent policies--if you want to ban people for life r domestic violence, fine; but be consistent and don't backpeddle when public pressure increases. And punish other serious acts similarly. Rice's teammate Ray Lewis was involved in a bar fight where someone was killed and indicted for murder, but testified against the other guys and had his charges reduced--he got a year's probation and a fine; the NFL fined him as well but didn't suspend him for even one game as I recall. Jets quarterback Sanchez admitted to picking up a 17 year old girl at a bar and having sex with her, and wasn't disciplined at all so far as I recall. and those are just a couple of incidents off the top of my head.
THE STORY OUT OF BALTIMORE GOES...
John Harbaugh's wife, Ingrid, had viewed the entire "elevator" video soon after the incident and then forced her husband to talk to sources about it's existence within hours of Goodell's "full and complete" denial that no one in the NFL had knowledge of it. And now the FBI is involved.
Oh, what a tangled web we weave... Goodell's days as CEO are nigh.
Oh, what a tangled web we weave... Goodell's days as CEO are nigh.
“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.”
Re: He Hit Me - and it Felt Like a Kiss....
Well, now the NFL is pursuing an independent investigation of the situation by former FBI director Robert Mueller, a partner at the Wilmer Hale law firm, a firm with close ties to the NFL; it has represented the Redskins in some actions and several partners hold positions with other NFL teams. But if Goodell says the investigation into how the evidence was handled is independent, then it must be so. Somehow I'll bet Mueller finds some minor problems, but no serious ones.
Re: He Hit Me - and it Felt Like a Kiss....
The existence of the NFL is based on brutal exploitation of human beings and the love of the general public (or some of them) in watching brutality. If you have ever seen Jim Otto's documentary or seen what happens to the bodies and brains of players you know this is true.
And now they want a 'kinder gentler' NFL where the players are not violent thugs who are taught to exert their will through pain and intimidation?
Really.
Turn it off.
yrs,
rubato
And now they want a 'kinder gentler' NFL where the players are not violent thugs who are taught to exert their will through pain and intimidation?
Really.
Turn it off.
yrs,
rubato
rubato. WHAT? ARE WE NANCY-BOYS...
... or MEN?
“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.”
Re: He Hit Me - and it Felt Like a Kiss....
rubato wrote:The existence of the NFL is based on brutal exploitation . . .
Turn it off.
yrs,
rubato
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
Re: He Hit Me - and it Felt Like a Kiss....
About the Rice incident, and the NFL's negligent response, I can only despair.
Twenty years of the Violence Against Women Act, and our society still condones domestic violence.
Twenty years of the Violence Against Women Act, and our society still condones domestic violence.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
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Econoline
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Re: He Hit Me - and it Felt Like a Kiss....
It does seem ironic that an NFL player has lost his job for brutality, when that's sort of the first thing on the job description...rubato wrote:The existence of the NFL is based on brutal exploitation of human beings and the love of the general public (or some of them) in watching brutality. If you have ever seen Jim Otto's documentary or seen what happens to the bodies and brains of players you know this is true.
And now they want a 'kinder gentler' NFL where the players are not violent thugs who are taught to exert their will through pain and intimidation?
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
— God @The Tweet of God
— God @The Tweet of God
Re: He Hit Me - and it Felt Like a Kiss....
Okay, a couple of things here:
First of all, yeah football is a physical sport. But the idea that this means that pro football players must of necessity be "brutes" off the field is a complete canard and a libel against the many thousands of decent men who have played the game who have done enormous good, and have never been anything but gentlemen and upstanding role models off the field. If football is too violent for you, feel free to watch a cricket match
Second, I have to say that I've really had my fill of the parade of arm chair psychologists, and TV psychiatrists and self-appointed "activists" who have never counseled, treated or even met Janay Rice, but who are nevertheless ready to race to dismiss everything she says about wanting to get this awful incident behind her as somehow something she has been "forced" or "manipulated" into saying. I think Melissa Harris-Perry had it exactly right (there's something I don't say everyday) yesterday, when she described this unwillingness to believe what the woman is saying as additional abuse.
Domestic violence and "abused spouse syndrome" are real problems that exist in our society, but none of these poobahs has the slightest idea as to whether this applies in this particular situation. I don't know any more than anyone else, but not one shred of credible evidence has been brought forward that I'm aware of to suggest that this was more than one atypical unfortunate drunken altercation. I'm not saying for sure that's what this was, but it certainly could have been. I haven't seen anyone in a position to actually know anything about Ray and Janay Rice's relationship; close friends, family members, etc. who have indicated anything about a pattern of abuse.
Nor have I seen anyone come forward to suggest that Ray Rice has a history of being an abusive or violent person; quite the contrary.
If Janay Rice doesn't choose to be a poster woman for domestic abuse, get off her back.
First of all, yeah football is a physical sport. But the idea that this means that pro football players must of necessity be "brutes" off the field is a complete canard and a libel against the many thousands of decent men who have played the game who have done enormous good, and have never been anything but gentlemen and upstanding role models off the field. If football is too violent for you, feel free to watch a cricket match
Second, I have to say that I've really had my fill of the parade of arm chair psychologists, and TV psychiatrists and self-appointed "activists" who have never counseled, treated or even met Janay Rice, but who are nevertheless ready to race to dismiss everything she says about wanting to get this awful incident behind her as somehow something she has been "forced" or "manipulated" into saying. I think Melissa Harris-Perry had it exactly right (there's something I don't say everyday) yesterday, when she described this unwillingness to believe what the woman is saying as additional abuse.
Domestic violence and "abused spouse syndrome" are real problems that exist in our society, but none of these poobahs has the slightest idea as to whether this applies in this particular situation. I don't know any more than anyone else, but not one shred of credible evidence has been brought forward that I'm aware of to suggest that this was more than one atypical unfortunate drunken altercation. I'm not saying for sure that's what this was, but it certainly could have been. I haven't seen anyone in a position to actually know anything about Ray and Janay Rice's relationship; close friends, family members, etc. who have indicated anything about a pattern of abuse.
Nor have I seen anyone come forward to suggest that Ray Rice has a history of being an abusive or violent person; quite the contrary.
If Janay Rice doesn't choose to be a poster woman for domestic abuse, get off her back.
Re: He Hit Me - and it Felt Like a Kiss....
Oh give me an effing break -- there are plenty of classic signs of Battered Woman syndrome that apply to Janay Rice and it is perfectly within the scope and ability of plenty of experts to say so. To argue otherwise is putting your head in the sand.
Battered Woman Syndrome is real, and its a significant problem in getting women to who are victims of domestic violence to stand up for themselves and speak out against their batterers. And do not try to argue that what Rice did to Janay isn't domestic abuse. It is.
The classic signs of Battered Woman Syndrome is denial and guilt. Denial that there is a problem, and guilt that they are the cause of the batterer's aggression towards them. They also believe that their batterer is omnipresent and omniscient. Many of these women are diagnosed with PTSD. All of these feelings make is very difficult for a battered spouse to break free. I know this first hand from two pro bono divorce cases I'm doing right now, representing battered women. In both, the women have had a difficult time breaking free -- even though they no longer live with the battering spouse.
In one case, she has not seen him or had any contact with him in over a year, except to testify at his criminal trial ---- and her testimony convicted him of assault and battery (although he only got a suspended sentence and probation and some required counseling). Getting her to get it together to proceed with a divorced after that has been a slow process, because it is still very painful for her.
In the second case there is continued contact and he continues to emotionally abuse and threaten her, in all sorts of incredibly subtle ways (and no, she will not report it to the police, despite my multiple requests that she do so). She has PTSD (I've seen all of her medical records, btw), has been for inpatient treatment several times this year, and when we finally got a court date, she freaked out about seeing him and didn't show up (I was at her house to pick her up and she stayed inside and didn't respond to my knocks, calls, etc). It's painful to watch, and all I can do is encourage and support and help them try to move forward.
And finally, anyone who suggests Janay and women like her are sticking around for their "meal ticket" or some other pecuniary reason are the ones committing additional abuse on these women. You, especially, should know better Gob.
Battered Woman Syndrome is real, and its a significant problem in getting women to who are victims of domestic violence to stand up for themselves and speak out against their batterers. And do not try to argue that what Rice did to Janay isn't domestic abuse. It is.
The classic signs of Battered Woman Syndrome is denial and guilt. Denial that there is a problem, and guilt that they are the cause of the batterer's aggression towards them. They also believe that their batterer is omnipresent and omniscient. Many of these women are diagnosed with PTSD. All of these feelings make is very difficult for a battered spouse to break free. I know this first hand from two pro bono divorce cases I'm doing right now, representing battered women. In both, the women have had a difficult time breaking free -- even though they no longer live with the battering spouse.
In one case, she has not seen him or had any contact with him in over a year, except to testify at his criminal trial ---- and her testimony convicted him of assault and battery (although he only got a suspended sentence and probation and some required counseling). Getting her to get it together to proceed with a divorced after that has been a slow process, because it is still very painful for her.
In the second case there is continued contact and he continues to emotionally abuse and threaten her, in all sorts of incredibly subtle ways (and no, she will not report it to the police, despite my multiple requests that she do so). She has PTSD (I've seen all of her medical records, btw), has been for inpatient treatment several times this year, and when we finally got a court date, she freaked out about seeing him and didn't show up (I was at her house to pick her up and she stayed inside and didn't respond to my knocks, calls, etc). It's painful to watch, and all I can do is encourage and support and help them try to move forward.
And finally, anyone who suggests Janay and women like her are sticking around for their "meal ticket" or some other pecuniary reason are the ones committing additional abuse on these women. You, especially, should know better Gob.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Re: He Hit Me - and it Felt Like a Kiss....
You really think brutality on the job correlates to brutality outside the job, and so it should be excused?Econoline wrote:It does seem ironic that an NFL player has lost his job for brutality, when that's sort of the first thing on the job description...rubato wrote:The existence of the NFL is based on brutal exploitation of human beings and the love of the general public (or some of them) in watching brutality. If you have ever seen Jim Otto's documentary or seen what happens to the bodies and brains of players you know this is true.
And now they want a 'kinder gentler' NFL where the players are not violent thugs who are taught to exert their will through pain and intimidation?
I think brutality is the wrong word, anyway. Football is a sport, it has rules and standards, and it far more than mere brute force exerted upon a funny shaped "ball." Certainly its physical, but its something more than mere brute force.
And regardless, that does not begin to excuse the behavior exhibited by Rice or the Ravens or the NFL during this entire incident.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Re: He Hit Me - and it Felt Like a Kiss....
Well, I couldn't possibly disagree more...it is perfectly within the scope and ability of plenty of experts to say so.
I understand that these folks have an agenda, (and it's not an 'evil" agenda by any means; as you and I both said, this is a serious societal problem) but unless these "experts" actually have first hand knowledge of this particular situation, what they have to say about it is nothing but ass gas...
Tossing it into a one-size fits-all rubric that makes judgements and demands regarding the woman without having that kind of information (especially over and over on national television) is clearly additional abuse.
Why didn't the Atlantic County DA's office make your list? After Rice himself, they're at the top of mine...And regardless, that does not begin to excuse the behavior exhibited by Rice or the Ravens or the NFL during this entire incident.