Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Right? Left? Centre?
Political news and debate.
Put your views and articles up for debate and destruction!
User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Post by Lord Jim »

Obama to lay out plan to 'degrade and destroy' Isis threat

President's strategy to 'degrade and destroy' insurgents will include military action and support for Iraq and Syrian opposition

Barack Obama will pledge on Wednesday night to "degrade and ultimately destroy" the Islamic State insurgency operating in both Syria and Iraq in an address to the American people expected to herald a significant escalation of the US military role across the region.

Though the exact extent of the anticipated US intervention in Syria remained unclear in the hours leading up to the key speech, White House officials made clear the president planned to pursue a two-pronged strategy on both sides of the border that is likely to build on existing air strikes in Iraq against the group known as Isis or Isil.

"Tonight you will hear from the president how the United States will pursue a comprehensive strategy to degrade and ultimately destroy Isil, including US military action and support for the forces combating Isil on the ground – both the opposition in Syria and a new, inclusive Iraqi government," said a senior administration official in a statement issued to reporters on Wednesday morning.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/s ... s-strategy

I call it a "do over" because as I discussed in another thread, while the Administration's strategy in terms of implementation has been clear (and given the circumstances we find ourselves in today, it's the best possible course) the President's ability to articulate it in a clear, consistent and unconfusing fashion has been sorely lacking...

Here's the reason I believe he has had this problem:

Barack Obama came into Office, (and he and his Administration have pushed ever since) with a narrative and an arc for his Presidency, that is fundamentally at odds with the reality he finds himself facing...

His was supposed to be the Presidency that ended our direct military involvement in the Mid-East; furthermore, his philosophy was built around the idea that the threat from Islamist Extremism was overblown...

We'd gotten bin Laden, the Radical Islamists were "on the run", ISIS was a "JV team"...

We were supposed to be basically in a "mop up" operation against some fragmented groups...groups that he was pursuing effectively with drone strikes and co-ordination with locals in various places like Yemen and Somalia...

And now the reality on the ground with ISIS has caused this whole narrative and desired legacy for his Presidency to blow up in his face...

I give Obama credit for the fact that he has from a policy standpoint, abandoned this hoped for reality in exchange for dealing with the real one. He has lived up to his responsibility as POTUS in that regard.

What he must do tonight is embrace and articulate that policy rhetorically; he's had enormous difficulty doing this...

Anyone who has followed his numerous statements about this since he first announced the initial airstrikes, couldn't help but notice the way his rhetoric has vacillated between stating the stakes and the strategy properly in one sentence, and then (sometimes literally in the very next sentence) seeming to take it back, or muddy the focus...

The result has been that on the question of the conduct of foreign policy, in the most recent NBC/WSJ poll Obama comes in with a 32% approval rating...

Which is even lower than George W. Bush's on that issue in the 6th year of his Presidency...

I believe that even though from a policy standpoint he has for the last month to a month and a half been making the right calls, he has been having a very difficult time psychologically and internally breaking free from the way he "wanted" things to be...

Hence the rhetorical confusion and contradictions in his public statements...

Tonight, he needs to rise above that, and speak in clear and unambiguous terms (like David Cameron did, and like our Ambassador to the UN Samantha Power did a couple of weeks ago in her speech at the UN Security Council about the situation in Ukraine)

He doesn't need to do what some on The Hill are asking for; he doesn't need to give some detailed cross every "T" and dot every "I" order of battle...

But he needs to lay out, in clear, unambiguous, and unequivocal terms:

1. The seriousness of the threat.

2. The overall strategy for meeting it. (but not every detail)

3. The fact that this is a fight that will not end in days or weeks, or probably even months.

That last is likely to be the toughest pill for him to publicly swallow, (since he wanted to be the President who was going to bring an end to "all this") but that's what he needs to do...

In about an hour, we'll see if he does it...
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Long Run
Posts: 6723
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Post by Long Run »

The general outline sounds reasonable (as would a more aggressive approach), but we'll see if there is any real follow through or leadership. It is going to be hard to rally regional allies when few if any in that region trusts him to keep his word when the going gets rough, and the situation will likely get rougher before it gets better.

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Post by Lord Jim »

This gave me my Laugh Out Loud moment for the day:
Russia has warned that US air strikes against militants in Syria would be a "gross violation" of international law

A Russian foreign ministry spokesman said any such action, without the backing of the UN, would be "an act of aggression".

It comes as US Secretary of State John Kerry meets Arab leaders in Saudi Arabia to try to build a coalition against Islamic State (IS) militants.

President Obama has threatened action against IS in Syria as well as Iraq.

IS controls large parts of Syria and Iraq after a rapid military advance.

In a speech outlining his strategy, Mr Obama said any group that threatened America would "find no safe haven".

He also announced that 475 US military personnel would be sent to Iraq but said they would not have a combat role.

But the statement brought a strong reaction from Russia, which has been an ally of embattled Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

"The US president has spoken directly about the possibility of strikes by the US armed forces against Isil (IS) positions in Syria without the consent of the legitimate government," ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich was quoted as saying.

"This step, in the absence of a UN Security Council decision, would be an act of aggression, a gross violation of international law."
That Vladimir Putin...

What a card! :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is almost as funny as his joke about the vacationing soldiers...
ImageImageImage

User avatar
BoSoxGal
Posts: 20047
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:36 pm
Location: The Heart of Red Sox Nation

Re: Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Post by BoSoxGal »

I missed that - what'd he say??
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Post by Lord Jim »

ImageImageImage

User avatar
BoSoxGal
Posts: 20047
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:36 pm
Location: The Heart of Red Sox Nation

Re: Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Post by BoSoxGal »

Thx!

PS: it's gets, not get's
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

User avatar
Crackpot
Posts: 11657
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:59 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Post by Crackpot »

He's just doing his part to drive Meade mad.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

rubato
Posts: 14245
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 10:14 pm

Re: Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Post by rubato »

He gets a 'do over' after the facts have changed and the state of knowledge of those facts is different.

Ah, right. Dissimulation by any other name ...


yrs,
rubato

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Post by Lord Jim »

rubato wrote:He gets a 'do over' after the facts have changed and the state of knowledge of those facts is different.

Ah, right. Dissimulation by any other name ...


yrs,
rubato
Yeah, the facts have changed completely since mid August... :roll:

I'm sorry rube but that "answer" is so wrong that you don't get our lovely consolation prizes, or even the Home Version of our game...but thanks for playing...

Not much excuse for getting this one wrong, since the correct answer was printed for you in the OP...
ImageImageImage

rubato
Posts: 14245
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 10:14 pm

Re: Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Post by rubato »

And the storm of self-justification goes on and on ....


Two American journalists have been killed since then; solidifying US popular and political support (even amount Republicans in a rare example of patriotism). The extent of the slaughter of the Yazidi was only known sometime after it began ca Aug 4th. The Kurds were able to re-capture the Mosul dam. The extent of support by NATO allies and others has increased exponentially in the past month.

This is a highly dynamic situation and both the facts and our knowledge of them is changing. Calling it a 'do-over' is just meaningless gassing.


yrs,
rubato

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Post by Lord Jim »

Two American journalists have been killed since then;
Well, uh, no, not exactly...

Two American journalists have been killed since we began providing air support to the Peshmerga...
The Kurds were able to re-capture the Mosul dam.


Because their attacks were coordinated with American air support...

Rube, I'm really not inclined to try to get into a meaningful discussion with you about this, for the following four reasons:

First, because your knowledge base on the subject is (as you have demonstrated) next to nil...(and that's really a charitable interpretation...)

Second, because the record shows that your ability to inculcate and process new information is pretty much non-existent...(making any attempt to educate you on my part a pyrrhic victory at best...)

Third, I'm not going to waste the time I have left on this rock trying to teach the unteachable, and educate the ineducable...

Fourth, I'm not going to allow a complete imbecile's inability to grasp even the simplest of logical concepts to cause me to tear out what's left of my thinning hair... 8-)
Last edited by Lord Jim on Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:05 am, edited 14 times in total.
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Joe Guy
Posts: 15385
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:40 pm
Location: Redweird City, California

Re: Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Post by Joe Guy »

Image

User avatar
Gob
Posts: 33646
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:40 am

Re: Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Post by Gob »

The murder of David Haines was an "act of pure evil", David Cameron has said after the release of a video purporting to show the UK hostage's beheading.

Image

The PM vowed to do "everything in our power to hunt down" the killers of the 44-year-old aid worker, from Perth, who was kidnapped last year in Syria.

Islamic State militants have already beheaded two Americans, saying it was in response to US airstrikes in Iraq.

The latest video also includes a threat to kill a second British hostage.

Mr Cameron said the murder of an innocent aid worker was "despicable and appalling".

"It is an act of pure evil. My heart goes out to the family of David Haines who have shown extraordinary courage and fortitude throughout this ordeal.

"We will do everything in our power to hunt down these murderers and ensure they face justice, however long it takes," he added.

A Downing Street spokesperson said the prime minister would chair an emergency Cobra committee meeting later.

Mr Haines, a father-of-two, was taken hostage in the village of Atmeh, in the Idlib province of Syria, in March 2013.

He had been helping French agency Acted deliver humanitarian aid, having previously helped local people in Libya and South Sudan.

The release of the video comes hours after his family had made a direct appeal to IS to contact them on Friday.

The family statement, which was released by the UK Foreign Office and addressed the militants directly, said: "We are the family of David Haines.

"We have sent messages to you to which we have not received a reply. We are asking those holding David to make contact with us."

IS has seized large swathes of territory in Iraq and Syria and declared a new caliphate - or Islamic state - and killed the two US hostages in recent weeks, posting video evidence on the internet.

The threat to kill Mr Haines was made during a video posted online showing the killing of US journalist Steven Sotloff earlier this month.

The extremist group also killed fellow US journalist, James Foley, last month.

BBC security correspondent Gordon Corera said the Foreign Office was attempting to verify the video.

"There is a process they undertake to authenticate these videos, the US also does the same.

"The will look to study it very carefully but it does follow this pattern we have seen recently from IS," he said.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Post by Lord Jim »

These savages really seem to be doing everything they can to rally public support to put them to ground...
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Econoline
Posts: 9607
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:25 pm
Location: DeKalb, Illinois...out amidst the corn, soybeans, and Republicans

Re: Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Post by Econoline »

On the contrary, they seem to be doing everything they can to draw western powers into the conflict, so that they can pose as fighting "for Islam" "against the Crusaders"...and so far, the bait has been working. As long as we (the U.S. and the U.K.--and maybe France and/or Germany?) are the ones leading the fight they know that they can go on forever with a sure-fire tool to draw new, young, radical jihadis from all over the world. Unless or until there are a significant number of Sunni Muslim "boots on the ground" opposing this so-called "caliphate" this will be an eternal, uphill, and increasingly costly fight for the U.S. and our allies. (So far, ISIL's only significant state-supported military opposition has come from Iran--and that's a problem, both for us and for the rest of the Muslim world.)
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

User avatar
Gob
Posts: 33646
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:40 am

Re: Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Post by Gob »

Several Arab countries have offered to take part in air strikes against Islamic State (IS) militants in Iraq, US officials say.

But any action is subject to approval from the Iraqi government, they add.

US Secretary of State John Kerry says he is "extremely encouraged" by promises of military assistance to tackle the extremist group.

He spoke in Paris after a whirlwind tour of the Middle East trying to drum up support for action against IS.

France is due to host an international conference on Monday about Iraqi security and tackling IS.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

User avatar
Econoline
Posts: 9607
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:25 pm
Location: DeKalb, Illinois...out amidst the corn, soybeans, and Republicans

Re: Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Post by Econoline »

If that pans out, it'll be excellent news for everyone (everyone except ISIL [or whatever we're calling them], of course).

Presumably this means that all of the ground troops will be Iraqi (including the Kurdish peshmerga), but if they're not up to the task--after all the years of training and billions of $$$ worth of equipment we've supplied--I hope we can twist some Turkish/Saudi/Jordanian/Kuwaiti/Qatari/Egyptian/Pakistani arms and keep to a minimal number of U.S. troops and keep them out of the limelight.
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Post by Lord Jim »

US, partners expand airstrikes into Syria against Islamic State group targets

WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. and five Arab countries launched airstrikes Monday night on Islamic State group targets in Syria, expanding a military campaign into a country whose three-year civil war has given the brutal militant group a safe haven.

Using a mix of manned aircraft — fighter jets and bombers — plus Tomahawk cruise missiles, the strikes were part of the expanded military campaign that President Barack Obama authorized nearly two weeks ago in order to disrupt and destroy the Islamic State militants, who have slaughtered thousands of people, beheaded Westerners — including two American journalists — and captured large swaths of Syria and northern and western Iraq.

U.S. officials said the airstrikes began around 8:30 p.m. EDT, and were conducted by the U.S., Bahrain, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the United Arab Emirates. The first wave of strikes finished about 90 minutes later, but the operation was expected to continue for several more hours, according to one U.S. official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly by name about an ongoing mission.
http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/art ... s-in-syria
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Post by Lord Jim »

This appears to be a fairly robust operation:
The United States was planning to attack as many as 20 Islamic State targets in the operation, which would mark the biggest single day of attacks since the military began striking the jihadist group in Iraq on Aug. 8, according to a senior U.S. military official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss details of the planned operation.

Among the targets of Monday’s operation were buildings occupied by Islamic State leaders, training sites, supply lines and arsenals, according to the U.S. military official, who said drones were also involved in the attacks.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... story.html

Assad has said before that he would attack any air forces launching attacks in Syria that weren't coordinating with him. Unfortunately I doubt that he will be stupid enough to do that; it would provide a military imperative to destroy his air defenses (including his air force).

ETA:


I'm particularly happy to see that we're hitting the training sites. Hopefully we'll take out some of the Western traitors who decided to cast their lot with these sociopaths, and discourage others from doing the same.
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Gob
Posts: 33646
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:40 am

Re: Obama Get's A "Do Over" Tonight...

Post by Gob »

Why? I'd like to see as many of them out there as possible.

Then we start strafing the place.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

Post Reply