I'm surprised there's been no thread about this...

[BoSoxGal]

The facts I've posted are all gleaned from reliable news sources & have been confirmed by Texas Methodist, the Dallas hospital in question, as well as the CDC.

[Lord Jim]

Well, I'm looking for facts that would indicate that other hospitals had other protocols in place, that would have caused them to catch this....

Facts that would indicate that the CDC notice was inputted into the systems of other hospitals in a way that would have made this a red flag for attending physicians ...

Facts about what the SOP is for hospitals in general in situations like this...

Facts that would show the initial response of this hospital to have been uniquely bad (as opposed to something that would probably have happened in pretty much any hospital, and these guys just happened to have the bad luck to be the first hospital in US history to have a guy with Ebola walk through their doors ...)

I haven't seen any facts posted addressing any of that...

[BoSoxGal]

There's this thing called Google; check it out.

I've seen plenty of articles in the paper, online etc. tracking how hospitals have been preparing. Is it seriously your suggestion that knowing Liberia, Sierra Leone, Ghana and West African countries in general should have been a red flag to any clerk, nurse or doctor in a major American ER? Their heads would have to be buried in the sand, much less ignoring an alert from the CDC?

[Guinevere]

I'm not a health care professional but I've spent a lot of time in hospitals this year, and I advise docs and hospitals - including the head of a very busy emergency department. The entire point of electronic medical records is to facilitate the transfer of critical information between the entire medical team.

Where this Liberian traveled from is critical information. Someone clearly screwed up.

[Lord Jim]

There's this thing called Google; check it out.

I've seen plenty of articles in the paper, online etc. tracking how hospitals have been preparing.

Well then you're much better at Googling then I am...

Could I please prevail on your superior expertise to provide just one link showing how another hospital provided the advisory information to their attending staff so that this couldn't happen? I can't find a single one.

Since you've seen so many, this should be a snap. Thanks.

[Econoline]

just sounds like an arrogant doctor to good to bother with anything a nurse wrote down

Bingo.

My sister is a nurse and my mother is a retired nurse and they both agree that this is par for the course for a doctor ignoring something written down by a nurse. (Maybe @W can confirm this?) It's just that, usually, the patient doesn't have ebola. This time he did.

[Lord Jim]

If that's true, is there some evidence that this happens more frequently in Texas then say, Vermont?

Oh, silly me, of course there is...

I just need to get better at Googling so I can look it up...

[Lord Jim]

I'm sure Liberian nationals visit the ER at Texas Methodist by the hundreds or even thousands.

Quite possibly...

Despite my horrible Googling skills, I was somehow able to blindly stumble on to this:

There are about 10,000 Liberians living in the Dallas area, many in the Five Points neighborhood. Often referred to among immigrants as the “Ellis Island of Dallas,” the area is full of color and sound, an exotic oasis where Somalis, Iraqis, Nepalese and Liberians cluster in the city’s most densely populated three square miles. More than 30 languages can be heard in the streets.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ebo ... story.html

And here's an indisputable fact for you:

There has been not one shred of proof provided in this thread that the contention that this hospital being in Texas played any role whatsoever in what happened reflects anything more substantial then the political prejudices of those making the assertion. Absolutely zero.

And that's the fact Jack....

[BoSoxGal]

Holy shit! They have a large local population of folks who might have traveled to Africa or have family/friends visiting from Africa and they didn't put a note with everyone's time card saying 'read the CDC alert and be vigilant about monitoring patients with ties to West Africa, or who may have recently traveled there'

Doh!

Even BIGGER TEXAS-sized negligence!!

[BoSoxGal]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/08/16/he ... &referrer=

[Lord Jim]

Okay, well I just read through that entire article...

It starts with this:

Hospitals nationwide are hustling to prepare for the first traveler from West Africa who arrives in the emergency room with symptoms of infection with the Ebola virus.

Well, that was promising...

But then it rapidly becomes apparent that the article doesn't address my questions at all...

The whole article is about CDC recommendations regarding dealing with "suspected" Ebola cases and protocols for hospitals to follow once they have identified someone as having Ebola. The failures at Texas Methodist took place before they ever got to the subject matter discussed in the article. the problem at Texas Methodist was that the system was not structured in such a way to assure that the guy would be a "suspected Ebola patient".

There's nothing in that article that deals with any of the things I asked about:

Well, I'm looking for facts that would indicate that other hospitals had other protocols in place, that would have caused them to catch this....

Facts that would indicate that the CDC notice was inputted into the systems of other hospitals in a way that would have made this a red flag for attending physicians ...

Facts about what the SOP is for hospitals in general in situations like this...

Facts that would show the initial response of this hospital to have been uniquely bad (as opposed to something that would probably have happened in pretty much any hospital, and these guys just happened to have the bad luck to be the first hospital in US history to have a guy with Ebola walk through their doors ...)

I haven't seen any facts posted addressing any of that...

There's nothing in that article about any of that. What to do once you have identified someone as having Ebola, (or even possibly having Ebola) which is what the article deals with, is an entirely different subject.

[Lord Jim]

I am TOTALLY stealing that!

PS, I picture this being LJ, and the wife asking him to come to bed. LJ, no offense!

Yeah, and I'm starting to picture you as the person on the other side of the screen....

[liberty]

Thousands have died, we've sent 3000 troops, and now we've had a badly bungled case here in the US...

The head of the CDC said Saturday that imposing a travel ban between the U.S. and West African countries dealing with the Ebola virus could worsen the outbreak that has killed over 3,000 people in five countries.

"Though we might wish we can seal ourselves off from the world, there are Americans who have the right of return and many other people that have the right to enter this country,".)

No, they don't have a right to reenter the country. Ones rights as a US citizen ends at the border.

[Lord Jim]

Lib, just because a citizen leaves the country doesn't mean they lose their right to re-enter it...

In this case, a lot of the people he's talking about are aid workers....

[BoSoxGal]

LJ, at some point it's going to hit you just how ludicrous it is that you keep defending this position.

Hi, I'm Tom Duncan, a Liberian national who just arrived here in Dallas from ebola-stricken Liberia. I feel out of sorts, as if I might have the flu'

ALARM ALARM ALARM ALARM ALARM PULL THE CDC PROTOCOL LOCK DOWN THE ER AND BEGIN IMPLEMENTING QUARANTINE PROTOCOLS

[BoSoxGal]

If it helps, I'm happy to concede it might have happened somewhere other than the state that RE-elected Rick Perry.

I mean, anything's possible!

[Lord Jim]

If it helps, I'm happy to concede it might have happened somewhere other than the state that RE-elected Rick Perry.

Well, that jibes pretty much with what I was just about to post when I hit "submit" and saw you had posted that first:

LJ, at some point it's going to hit you just how ludicrous it is that you keep defending this position.

Here's the position I'm defending:

There has been not one shred of proof provided in this thread that the contention that this hospital being in Texas played any role whatsoever in what happened reflects anything more substantial then the political prejudices of those making the assertion. Absolutely zero.

What I am not defending is the idea that the way this hospital handled this was a "good thing", or the way one would wish it had been handled...

[wesw]

I have encountered many wonderful docs in the last few years. my life was saved by them.
if you go to the emergency room, its hit or miss. you may get a young intelligent saint, an older doc at the top of his profession, or a reject from somewhere, who doesn t care if you live or die.

[Guinevere]

LJ, at some point it's going to hit you just how ludicrous it is that you keep defending this position.

Hi, I'm Tom Duncan, a Liberian national who just arrived here in Dallas from ebola-stricken Liberia. I feel out of sorts, as if I might have the flu'

ALARM ALARM ALARM ALARM ALARM PULL THE CDC PROTOCOL LOCK DOWN THE ER AND BEGIN IMPLEMENTING QUARANTINE PROTOCOLS

Which is exactly what happened in Massachusetts this weekend (albeit they had a bit more information - but still - it shows what should have happened in Texas):

A doctor admitted to a Massachusetts hospital this weekend for an apparent respiratory infection after surviving the Ebola virus was in stable condition and feeling better Sunday, but still has a fever and cough. Late Sunday, the Centers for Disease Control confirmed Ebola test results for Dr. Richard Sacra came back negative.

Officials at UMass Memorial Medical Center in Worcester removed Dr. Sacra from isolation, where he was placed as a precaution. He was admitted Saturday and is being treated for an upper respiratory infection that doctors believe is not related to Ebola he contracted in Africa.

Dr. Robert Finberg, who is leading Sacra's medical team, said at a news conference Sunday that doctors are confident Sacra's symptoms are not related to the Ebola he contracted in Africa. Finberg and hospital President Patrick Muldoon stressed that there is no threat to the public and that the hospital is operating under normal conditions.

"People are very concerned, that's why we're being extremely cautious," Finberg said. "We're not taking risks with Dr. Sacra and his caregivers."

Asked why doctors believe Sacra's symptoms are not related to Ebola, Finberg said he was not aware of any case of Ebola recurring in surviving patients, and Sacra is feeling better and eating.

"People with Ebola don't feel like eating. They feel like throwing up," Finberg said. "The fact that he's eating and he feels pretty good, I think is a very good sign."

Finberg said Sacra was just being responsible when he decided to go a hospital.

Sacra, of Holden, returned to Massachusetts on Sept. 25 after weeks of treatment at an Omaha, Nebraska, hospital.

He spent much of the last two decades in Liberia, working with a missionary group. He also works at Family Health Center of Worcester.
Bruce Johnson, president of the SIM USA missionary group, said in a news release that Sacra first visited a Boston-area hospital emergency room Saturday morning because of a persistent cough, low-grade fever and concern that he might be getting pneumonia. Johnson said Sacra was transferred to UMass Memorial for observation as a precaution under CDC guidelines.

Muldoon said the CDC advised hospital officials to keep Sacra in isolation until the Ebola testing results come in. Muldoon said UMass Memorial is well-quipped to handle infectious diseases.

Read more: http://www.wcvb.com/health/rick-sacra-t ... z3FN0H5ld1

[rubato]

The medical professions like all professional endeavors, are trained correctly to respond to problems which occur frequently and repetitively. They are not trained, and I can think of no equivalent profession who has ever been, to respond perfectly to a new event. It is a standard of performance no other profession has ever met. In this case it appears that the breakdown occurred when the nurse failed to communicate effectively the fact that the person was from Liberia. Or that the importance of that fact was lost in the usual rush of hospital work.

7,000 hospitals, just under 700,000 MDs, 2,700,000 RNs. Not an easy thing to shift the behavior of a group that size.

yrs,
rubato