"Sexist and Racist"....

[wesw]

...and a quick google will show that many agree about martina and her body changes. one fellowthinks she is the most successful cheater in sports history. and you will also see that serena has mountains of her own PED accusations and weird behavior and body changes seem to back them up

[Scooter]

And how many of those publicly musing about that held official positions in the tennis world? (hint - neither bloggers nor late night talk show hosts looking for a laugh don't count)

[wesw]

well I don t read blogs or get my news from comedians. check it out yourself.

key words: martina Navratilova PEDs steroids. none of this stuff is new, she was widely believed to have been using steroids since I can remember. her becoming an American did help , as was mentioned earlier.

the sky is blue....

[Scooter]

So your answer is that no one who held any official position in tennis made any public comments about her appearance. Thank you.

(hint - "check it out yourself" translates as "I got nuttin'")

[Sue U]

oh please, any one could see she was on the juice

"anyone could see" = "I have no actual evidence"

...and a quick google will show that many agree about martina and her body changes. one fellowthinks she is the most successful cheater in sports history. and you will also see that serena has mountains of her own PED accusations and weird behavior and body changes seem to back them up

"a quick google will show" = "assholes on the interwebs say shit"

However, if you were actually interested in the facts rather than what some douchenozzle with a dial-up vomits from his keyboard, you could easily find out that the US Anti-Doping Agency has tested both Venus and Serena Williams 6 times each this year alone; last year, Venus 8, Serena 5. No evidence of PEDs.

[wesw]

it means I can t be bothered to cater to your every whim.

first you put mannishness in quotes, tho I never said the word, if it is a word, then you say I said things I did not say.

if I said the grass was green, you would disagree scooter. believe what you want.

sue, I was talking about martina on the juice, I just happened to mention serena in passing because someone said PEDs had nothing to do with her being referred as a brother

[Scooter]

It means you've got nothing. We understood that the first three times.

Not anyone else's problem if you can't handle your posts being subjected to even minimal factual scrutiny. But pretend that your inability to back up your own assertions is all my fault, if it makes you feel better. Because I have no interest in derailing this thread further to humour your self-indulgence.

[wesw]

anyway I can t help it if you can t see the forest for the trees. I tried to find a quote from chris evert about it but she is too kind to be direct. in a new York post interview she said that she wouldn t name any names but that she saw one or two players from her era that changed physically and became aggressive before her eyes, as have I. I noticed martina change physically just as I saw barry bonds change and just as I saw the brow ridges of the "hogs" grow.

its hard to learn when you already know everything......

[wesw]

did you ever play tennis seriously scooter?

[Scooter]

I tried to find a quote from chris evert about it but she is too kind to be direct.

Thank you for making my point for me, which was that amid all of the public speculation about whether Navratilova was using PEDs, not a single person who had any official connection to the game ever came out and said, "hey everybody, that Martina sure looks like a man," as was just done to the Williams sisters.

Is the light bulb going on yet, or would a diagram help?

did you ever play tennis seriously scooter?

Last time I checked, playing a sport seriously was never a prerequisite to being capable of reading the sports page. Do I need to be Julia Child in order to read a restaurant review?

[wesw]

anyway, all I said was that I didn t think the comment was racist. it was certainly sexist and rude.

and I was asking because because I was really into the sport and watched it closely, and saw martina and evert play each other quite often. I asked because I was wondering if you saw martina change as I did. I asked because if you had watched athletes and athletics closely you may have acquired some knowledge of how the bodies and minds of juicers change. I ve seen it on tv and in person with high school athletes I ve known since I coached them in tee ball, all the way to 4th in the state in senior league baseball.

I was wondering if you had such experience.

I m sorry you feel the need to be nasty and condescending , I had hoped we could leave that in the past.

[Guinevere]

well I don t read blogs or get my news from comedians. check it out yourself.

key words: martina Navratilova PEDs steroids. none of this stuff is new, she was widely believed to have been using steroids since I can remember. her becoming an American did help , as was mentioned earlier.

the sky is blue....

Did you actually read those links? There is ZERO evidence and really not even any serious speculation that Martina used PEDS. And you obviously didn't read the interview with Chrissie or have any clue that they are actually very very close friends. It's all laid out in the 30 for 30 piece MGM mentioned earlier.

[wesw]

yes I realize they are friends, and I did read the interview. there was serious speculation 30 yrs ago when I was playing tennis. I don t believe that martina continued to use steroids after she defected, but who knows.

I was stating my belief that she was juicing. it was common even then. there is an excellent documentary about the east german swim team of that era that is just heartbreaking. those girls suffered horribly and had little choice. it may have been the same for martina. I have nothing against martina and enjoy hearing her talk about tennis. she seems like a great person. I still believe she juiced willingly or otherwise, idk. I m also a fan of venus Williams and root for her(except when she played hingas). serena I don t care for. her erratic behavior and her physical situation at her age indicate juicing to me. my opinion, take it or leave it. I ve seen people I know who changed in similar ways while on the roids. one guy I know was full on barry bonds, with the cranial enlargement and developing muscle at a late age. Steffi graf was a bit manly herself for a while, but I still think she s hot

feel free to disagree.

[Crackpot]

Wes,

Something you should know about Scooter he may be one who fails to admit error very often but his saving grace is the fact his track record for being wrong or not having a valid point is only slightly worse.

And in this case he is right unless you can at least provide a reasonable source for a claim that Navratalova used PEDs you can't reasonably blame anyone for not taking your word for it nor is it our job to do your research for you. If you don't want to back up your assertions you may want to rethink making the. In the first place.

[wesw]

hey, I had no idea about all the accusations until I just googled it.

it was part of the conversation on the court thirty years ago. it seemed obvious to us

I don t really care if anyone agrees or not. I m not trying to prove anything, just calling it like I see it.

some people put up ridiculous graphs or studies and call it proof. I m just stating what I see as obvious, not trying to convince anyone.

[Guinevere]

"Us" = you and the mouse in your pocket? Speak for yourself. I was playing and watchin tennis 30 years ago and it wasn't obvious to me.

[Joe Guy]

I wouldn't be surprised if Navratilova took steroids at any time in her career, but it also wouldn't surprise me if many other tennis players were taking them. There was a time when it seemed like everyone in sports was taking them.

Serena is a fair target for comedians but not for the head of the Russian Tennis Federation. The guy should have known better.

He was probably drunk...

[wesw]

I was obviously talking about the people I played tennis with.

and I ve been reading for the last half hour and it seems the only ones who believe martina didn t use steroids are on this site....

it seems todays players use at a much higher rate than the players of martina s day.

she seems to have been a groundbreaker in more ways than one.

and joe, I remember at the time feeling bad for Chrissy evert. the playing field was not level, in my opinion. I was gonna say that about the Russian too, but then I would have been labeled as anti Slavic or some such nonsense.

[rubato]

hey, I had no idea about all the accusations until I just googled it.

it was part of the conversation on the court thirty years ago. it seemed obvious to us.... "

So which was the whopper, "you had no idea about it" or "It seemed obvious to us"?


yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

Billie Jean King was more muscular, are you going to accuse her too?


yrs,
rubato