Timing is everything...

[Gob]

Britain has been told that it must pay an additional €2.1bn (£1.7bn) into the European Union budget by the end of next month in an ultimatum certain to be used against David Cameron by the growing camp urging the UK to quit the EU.

British and European Commission officials confirmed on Thursday evening that the Treasury had been informed last week that budget contribution calculations based on gross national income adjustments carried out by Eurostat, the EU statistics agency, had exposed a massive discrepancy between what the UK had been asked to contribute and what it should be paying, because the UK economy was doing much better relative to other European economies.

The bombshell, first reported by the Financial Times, was dropped into the middle of an EU summit in Brussels where David Cameron and 27 other leaders were mired in difficult negotiations over climate-change policy and attempts to agree big reductions in greenhouse gas emissions by 2030.

A Downing Street source said: “It’s not acceptable to just change the fees for previous years and demand them back at a moment’s notice.

“The European Commission was not expecting this money and does not need this money and we will work with other countries similarly affected to do all we can to challenge this.”

The prime minister on Thursday evening conferred with Mark Rutte, the Dutch prime minister, as the Dutch have also been ordered to pay more than €600m extra into the budget, while other countries such as Germany and France are slated to have excess contributions returned.

The commission told the various countries of the revamped figures on 17 October, EU officials said. They added that the British had until 1 December to provide €2.1bn, roughly a fifth of the UK’s annual net contribution to the EU.

So, with the anti-EU parties on the rise in the UK, the EU decides to play silly buggers. Nice one.

[Lord Jim]

"I think the timing's excellent "

[Gob]

I'll drink to that!

[wesw]

I know times are tight, but please remember all that Germany and france have done for you and pony up

[Lord Jim]

[Lord Jim]

And the beat goes on...:

Poll: Britain's Ukip on Course to Win Second Parliamentary Seat


By Reuters
Filed: 10/23/14 at 7:31 AM | Updated: 10/23/14 at 10:07 AM


The UK Independence Party (Ukip), which wants Britain to pull out of the European Union, is on course to win its second parliamentary seat as voters desert Prime Minister David Cameron's Conservatives, according to the latest opinion poll.

The ComRes survey found Ukip well ahead of the Conservatives among voters in Rochester to the southeast of London before a by-election next month, with four in 10 of those who voted for Cameron's party in 2010 now planning to switch.

Ukip was on 43 percent, the Conservatives 30 percent and the opposition Labour Party had 21 percent, the poll found. The election was triggered by the decision of sitting lawmaker Mark Reckless to defect to Ukip from the Conservative Party.

Two weeks ago Ukip won its first elected seat in parliament when another Conservative defector Douglas Carswell won a landslide victory in the seaside town of Clacton.

Nationwide polls have shown support for Ukip, which backs tighter immigration controls along with an EU exit, reaching a record high of 25 percent.[that's before this latest news, which should be good for another 2-3 points...]

Its rise increases the likelihood of another coalition government, threatening Cameron's re-election drive by splitting the right-wing vote, but also posing a challenge to the left-leaning opposition Labour party in its traditional northern England heartlands too.

http://www.newsweek.com/uk-anti-eu-part ... oll-279278

[oldr_n_wsr]

Not knowing much on this but it sounds like they retroactively upped your dues.
forget them.

[Gob]

DAVID Cameron has told British tourists to recoup the UK’s £2 billion EU surcharge by stealing things from continental hotels.


The prime minister said many hotels now have very good televisions in the rooms that are probably worth at least £250.

He added: “Also, shower heads, light fittings, chairs – don’t be shy.

“You could even take apart the air conditioning unit so it fits in your suitcase.

“I was in a hotel in Germany recently that had an Apple Mac in the room, so I stole it and flogged it to one of my wife’s friends.

“Three hundred quid. Fuck you, Brussels.”

Under the plan every Briton travelling abroad would have official diplomatic status, granting them immunity from prosecution.

Martin Bishop, from Peterborough, said: “Sounds good. Will I be allowed to steal cleaners, bellboys, waiters, that sort of thing?”

Mr Cameron said that if the money was not recouped after two years of hotel theft, Britons would shoplift in EU countries and mug elderly Europeans at cash machines.

[Gob]

David Cameron has angrily insisted the UK will not pay £1.7bn being demanded by the European Union.

"If people think I am paying that bill on 1 December, they have another think coming," the prime minister said in Brussels. "It is not going to happen."

But Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso said the demand should "not have come as a surprise" to the UK.

He said it was made under a system agreed by all the member states and based on data provided by them.

EU finance ministers have agreed to the UK's request for emergency talks about the top-up payment, which would add about a fifth to the UK's net EU contribution of £8.6bn for this year.

Mr Cameron said he was "downright angry" and said the British public would find the "vast" sum "totally unacceptable".

"It is an unacceptable way for this organisation to work - to suddenly present a bill like this for such a vast sum of money with so little time to pay it," he said.

"It is an unacceptable way to treat a country which is one of the biggest contributors to the EU."

He added: "We are not going suddenly to get out our cheque book and write a cheque for 2bn euros. It is not going to happen."

Speaking later on a visit to Rochester and Strood, in Kent, where there will be a by-election next month, Mr Cameron made it clear the UK will not pay the full amount being demanded by the EU.

"If it is 2bn euros, no we're not, that is just not acceptable," he said.

He has not ruled out making an additional contribution at some stage.

But Mr Barroso, who steps down as Commission president next month, said the bill should not "have come as a surprise". He said the UK's contribution had fallen in 2008 under the same mechanism.

"Of course I understand the concerns it has raised in London, but any person that wants to look at them with objectivity and honesty to the rules that were approved by the member states has to accept that sometimes these decisions happen," he told reporters in Brussels.

Pushed as to what would happen if the UK did not pay, he said: "I cannot speculate on non-payment.

"We cannot have a negotiation about the GDP of different countries... this should be left to independent statistics authorities."

He added that Eurostat, the EU statistics authority, which had come up with the calculation, was itself an independent body.

Analysis by BBC Political Correspondent Ross Hawkins

He sounded like a prime minister unleashed; by turns scornful and furious, lectern thumping, downright angry.

It seemed he was doing exactly what UKIP leader Nigel Farage demanded - refusing the European Commission any money at all.

But David Cameron was well in control.

He said he would not pay on 1 December, but did not rule out paying later.

He accepted the principle of a fluctuating EU budget that meant bills went up as well as down.

After that performance he cannot, and surely will not, pay what the Commission demands.

But by how far can he negotiate down the bill? Half of £1.7bn, a quarter, a third? All represent big money.

Were he to refuse to pay whatever the Commission finally demands, could he still persuade EU leaders in vital, future negotiations?

For a party leader battling Mr Farage, the pictures on the TV news tonight will be perfect.

If his diplomats can't do a decent deal, they will come back to haunt him.

Mr Cameron said he wanted to examine how the EU had come up with the bill and his position was backed by several other European leaders whose countries are also being tapped for more money, claiming his Italian counterpart Matteo Renzi had described the demands as a "lethal weapon".

He said he first heard about the EU's demands on Thursday but acknowledged that the Treasury knew about them last week.

"You didn't need to have a Cluedo set to know someone has been clubbed with the lead piping in the library," he said.

There has been anger across the political spectrum in the UK at the EU's demand for additional money, which comes just weeks before the vital Rochester and Strood by-election, where UKIP is trying to take the seat from the Conservatives.

The surcharge follows an annual review of the economic performance of EU member states since 1995, which showed Britain has done better than previously thought. Elements of the black economy - such as drugs and prostitution - have been included in the calculations for the first time.

The UK and the Netherlands are among those being asked to pay more, while France and Germany are both set to receive rebates. The UK is being asked to pay the most.

Several Conservative MPs have said the UK should refuse to pay the sum, describing it as "illegal".

EU diplomats told Reuters that finance ministers would meet to discuss the issue, while Downing Street is pressing for "a full political-level discussion" well before 1 December.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said the "disparities" between what was being asked of the 28 members needed to be investigated further.

"David Cameron didn't say he wasn't going to pay it at all," she said.

"He was just concerned about the very short period he has to pay it in. So I'm confident a solution can be found to this in the foreseeable future."

Labour said Mr Cameron had failed to explain how long it had known about the EU proposals, suggesting he had delayed making it public over fears about how it would go down with voters.

Shadow chancellor Ed Balls said it was wrong that an "unfair" bill had been "sprung upon" the UK but suggested that the Treasury should have acted sooner.

Losers Additional sum to pay

United Kingdom £1,676m

Netherlands £506m

Italy £268m

Greece £70m

Cyprus £33m

Winners Reduction

France £801m

Germany £614m

Denmark £253m

Poland £249m

Austria £232m

UKIP likened the EU to a "thirsty vampire" and said the demand strengthened its case for British withdrawal.

UKIP leader Nigel Farage said the UK already paid £55m a day to be a member of the EU and suggested it would have no option but to pay the supplement.

"To be asked for a whole load more and be given a few days in which to pay it, is pretty outrageous and I think people will be very, very angry," he said.

The additional payment was requested after Eurostat reviewed the economic performances of member states since 1995, and readjusted the contributions made by each state over the past four years based on their pace of growth.

The BBC's head of statistics Anthony Reuben said prostitution, drugs and tobacco-smuggling were not included in national income before 2002 when they should have been, under accounting rules.

In contrast, prostitution was included in Germany's own national accounts and given that EU budget contributions are based on national income, this partly explains why the UK has been underpaying and Germany overpaying, he added.

[Jarlaxle]

The EU seems to be a suicide pact...

[Gob]

[Lord Jim]

Not knowing much on this but it sounds like they retroactively upped your dues.
forget them.

Oh, but you're forgetting all the benefits the Brits enjoy...*









*For anyone unfamiliar with the concept, that was "sarcasm":
sar·casm
ˈsärˌkazəm/
noun: sarcasm; plural noun: sarcasms
the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

[Big RR]

[quote]Oh, but you're forgetting all the benefits the Brits enjoy...*/quote]

Oh, but the Brits were the ones who chose to join the club; it remains to be seen if they can resign or must live with that choice. In 1861 the USA told the confederacy that there was no resignation permitted from the American Union; are we just watching a lead up to WW3?

[wesw]

yeah right. come across the channel and take the money, you cheese eating surrender monkeys. we ll just give france to Germany and tell them to be happy with that , un less they want another ass whipping.


that s just a joke, but I really think your analogy is way off, and that you over estimate the importance of the EU to Europe. I believe new alliances would be a good thing anyway. times have changed

[Lord Jim]

Oh, but you're forgetting all the benefits the Brits enjoy...*

Oh, but the Brits were the ones who chose to join the club; it remains to be seen if they can resign or must live with that choice. In 1861 the USA told the confederacy that there was no resignation permitted from the American Union; are we just watching a lead up to WW3?

The EU isn't the US...

(Hell, it isn't even "The Articles Of Confederation")

No one is disputing that if the Brits want to leave they can leave...

Allowing some international judicial system to over-rule our courts is something we would never stand for...

Allowing some international body to determine our immigration policies is also something we would never stand for...

Why should they?

No one is suggesting (certainly not Nigel Farage's UKIP) that the UK should have an antagonistic relationship with Continental Europe...

They should have a robust and vigorous mutually beneficial trading relationship for a start...

All the parties agree on that...

The problem is, The EU is an idea whose time has not yet come...

As an extraordinarly astute poster here pointed out nearly two years ago in a very insightful analysis that I think bears reposting :

I think the fundamental problem with the EU (and even more so with the Euro) is that it is "An idea whose time has not yet come"....

I believe that at some point in the future, Europe will become a united political entity, (in fact the whole world will; otherwise, how will we ever become a founding member of The United Federation Of Planets?... )

But what has happened re the EU and the Euro, is that the political class of some of the major European players have raced on ahead of what their populace and societies are prepared to embrace...

A lot is made of the divisions between the "red states" and "blue states" in the US, but you can take one of the reddest of the red states (say, Mississippi) and compare it to one of the bluest of the blue, (Massachusetts, for example) and you will still have nowhere near the cultural, and shared societal values divergence that exists between Germany and Greece, or Denmark and Portugal....

For one thing, every state in the US, red blue or purple, has written into it's state constitution a requirement that it's state budget be in balance every year....

(Now a number of them, including the one I live in, frequently resort to book keeping legerdemain to achieve this, but at least that's the goal...)

Within the Euro Zone, you have participating states and populations with wildly divergent societal and governmental attitudes in relation to budgetary policy, and values like thrift, savings, tax collection, work ethic, official corruption, etc....

They keep trying to come up with one short term fix after another, but frankly, I fully expect that given all the external stresses of a sluggish global economy, and the internal contradictions, that in the not too distant future, (the next couple of years at most) the Euro will either collapse out right, (In which case, if you have any substantial holdings in Euros, I suggest you keep them in a German bank; I understand that if a country withdraws from the Euro Zone, the holdings in that country's banks revert to the currency of the host country...I don't know about you, but I'd much rather be holding Deutschmarks than Greek Drachmas when the music stops...) or be reconstituted without the participation of countries who's budgetary policies have been flagrantly irresponsible.

In regards to the EU itself, again, the political class overreached, got ahead of what their societies were prepared to accept, and the result has been a huge backlash...

I doubt very seriously that the objective of those who, in the rush of exuberance of the immediate Post-Cold War Era, sought to lay the the ground work for a "United States Of Europe" intended that their efforts would result in the rise in popularity of right wing-nationalist political movements, but that has been the result....

And even amongst those who are not ready to embrace Neo-Fascism, it is quite understandable that they chafe under, and resent policies that permit folks who come from countries that provide far less in terms of support for their citizens, to come to their country, just to take advantage of the generosity available in their country (the article Strop posted about the unemployed, unwed single mother from Lithuania who moved within the "EU" to the UK just to take advantage of the far greater social benefits, is a perfect case in point...)

The "EU" is a fine and noble idea...the intent is to put hundreds of years of warfare behind them and rise together as one civilized, united people...

But the reality is, that the gulf between these countries, (while no longer resulting in warfare, which is certainly progress) remains deep and broad, in a whole range of ways, economically and culturally....

Too deep and broad at this point, to try to impose any sort of unified political, economic or military structure....So deep and broad, that the effort to do so is likely to be counter-productive...(for which there is abundant evidence)

This is not to say that the concept of the EU should be given up on....

But until there is a greater convergence between the shared values of these very different and ancient nations, the politicians need to take a step back, and adopt far more modest goals.

[rubato]

Stop being such craven whining little pussies and just get out of the EU. Everyone's tired of your 'poor little me I'm so oppressed" crying.


It's like hearing the fucking Quebecois whine about being in Canada and then being too chicken to act on it.


Get.The.Fuck.Out.And.Deal.with.The.Consequences


Get out of NATO while you're at it. We don't really need you.


yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

Get out of NATO while you're at it. We don't really need you.


yrs,
rubato, provincial nativist

Yeah, I know you didn't say it, but it was implied...

[rubato]

Get out of NATO while you're at it. We don't really need you.


yrs,
rubato, provincial nativist

Yeah, I know you didn't say it, but it was implied...

It would be implied if I was suggesting that WE get out of NATO.

You are stupid. And being stupid drives you to hatred.



yrs,
rubato

[wesw]

I know I am but what are you?

[Lord Jim]

You are stupid. And being stupid drives you to hatred.



yrs,
rubato

And the seal barks again...


But wait a minute....

Before you were saying it was my hatred that was making me stupid, but now you're saying it's my stupidity that's making me hateful....

Which is it? It's all so confusing....