A lot at stake

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Lord Jim
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Re: A lot at stake

Post by Lord Jim »

anyone who actually has professional expertise in a particular field


Actually, in this case it seems more like "professional conditioning" to me....

As in being conditioned by profession to view every unfortunate thing that happens in the world as being properly resolved through the legal system.
Last edited by Lord Jim on Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: A lot at stake

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

OK LJ - that's your last rash generalization.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Guinevere
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Re: A lot at stake

Post by Guinevere »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Guinevere wrote:Do neither of you (Sue and BigRR) recall that Meade used to work for/brokered insurance? That explains everything about his perspective. Plaintiffs (and Plaintiffs' attorneys) bad. Defendants (and insurers) not responsible for anything. It's all just "accidental."
Sue U wrote:Obviously, you shouldn't listen to anyone who actually has professional expertise in a particular field; after all, what would they know?
Lawyer fight! Lawyer fight!

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Guinevere
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Re: A lot at stake

Post by Guinevere »

Lord Jim wrote:
anyone who actually has professional expertise in a particular field


Actually, in this case it seems more like "professional conditioning" to me....

As in being conditioned by profession to view everything unfortunate happens in the world as being properly resolved through the legal system..
Absolutely untrue. I bet many lawyers would tell you that we are the *last* to resort to the legal system when unfortunate things happen to us (see my example above). When my premium collection company refused a storm claim on my home (but covered the house in front of me, and the house next to me, and the houses down the street), it took me a long time to actually bring the claim, and I tried several times to resolve it first, without resorting to litigation. Some times that's what gets attention. Is that the injured party's fault? Hardly.

Oh, and BTW, I'm not a Plaintiffs lawyer, I've worked for Defendants far more than I have for Plaintiffs. And, I have done one PI case in my life (it did happen to be for a Plaintiff), but believe me, you would have taken the case too. So yeah, that brush is super super wide.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Lord Jim
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Re: A lot at stake

Post by Lord Jim »

I'm certainly not saying that every lawyer would agree that what happened in this case was just, logical and fair...(presumably the defendant's lawyer didn't, for a start)

But I am hard put to imagine anyone other than a lawyer (or maybe some lawsuit happy gadfly who sues everybody in sight) seeing it that way...

This seems to me to be much like the case of the cop who sued the crime victim when she tripped over the curb in that regard...
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Guinevere
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Re: A lot at stake

Post by Guinevere »

Do I have to repeat myself? Apparently I do. I DID NOT TAKE AND DO NOT HAVE A POSITION ON THE OUTCOME OF THIS CASE. But I DO object to quite a lot of the characterizations being tossed around about my colleagues and my profession.

And if you want to talk arrogance, the concept of "professional conditioning" is arrogant and condescending to the max. At a minimum, it assumes that people who are trained to think and analyze cannot think and analyze.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: A lot at stake

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Guinevere wrote:I'm the blonde on the left. Obvs.
Nice but drat! I was keen on the other one... oh well...
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Lord Jim
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Re: A lot at stake

Post by Lord Jim »

Do I have to repeat myself?
Apparently I do:

"I'm certainly not saying that every lawyer would agree that what happened in this case was just, logical and fair..."
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Big RR
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Re: A lot at stake

Post by Big RR »

I'm certainly not saying that every lawyer would agree that what happened in this case was just, logical and fair...(presumably the defendant's lawyer didn't, for a start)
Maybe, maybe not; most times a lawyer is happy when he can get his client a fair outcome based on the facts. Maybe this was such a case for the defense counsel, we just don't know.

And as I have said several times, I don't know what is fair as I do not have all the details of what happened; unless someone here has personal knowledge of the case (and no one has claimed that) NONE of us do. All I am saying is that it's ludicrous to attack a verdict in favor of an injured party as wrong unless you have those facts. Absent that, I am far more willing to accept the ruling of a judge who heard all the evidence over the rantings of someone who claims to know exactly what and how something happened from, what, an 800 word account that raises more questions than it answers.

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: A lot at stake

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Absent that, I am far more willing to accept the ruling of a judge who heard all the evidence over the rantings of someone who claims to know exactly what and how something happened from, what, an 800 word account that raises more questions than it answers.
Would you care to describe in more detail what the "rantings" were and perhaps more particularly the who/where of the someone that "claims to know exactly what and how something happened"?

Oh wait - you must mean the court and the newspaper!
Court documents said David Blick was riding slightly ahead of Michael Anthony Franklin.....Mr Blick hit a large wooden tree stake that was lying in the bike lane and veered into his friend, causing him to fall off his bike and into the path of an oncoming car.


What I do see is are many claims to know exactly what didn't happen from er... you. Apparently logical deduction is permitted to some but not to others.

Tell me this Big RR, if the second clown wasn't riding "slightly behind" and therefore too close to the first clown to avoid the accident, where was he riding - how far back? Put an estimated number on it - you know you can but you won't - because just as #1 rode into a stake he should have seen (it was a duty), #2 was too close to #1 to avoid the collision (which should have been his duty).

In case it's not obvious, I've not once written (I hope I didn't; beat me with a wet noodle if I did) an attack saying that the verdict was wrong...... I've stated that the plaintiff is wrong to do what he did and that the defense lawyer doesn't seem to have made enough of a case for contributory negligence.

Oh wait - I'm not alone.... here's someone who agrees and also DOES challenge the judgement:
Last week's damages order has been a hot topic among the city's cycling community, with many concerned about the possible precedent set by the finding.

"This judgement handed down is preposterous. The duty of care and responsibility of a cyclist in the position described in this instance rests just as much with the following cyclist as it does with the lead cyclist," cyclist Daniel Green told The Canberra Times' cycling blog The Lycra Diaries.

"By drafting very close behind or beside another cyclist, you are putting yourself at greater risk as you can be directly impeded or contacted by that other cyclist. If you are not comfortable and confident with this situation, then do not place yourself in that position."

Other riders said the ACT Government also needed to shoulder some of the blame for the accident, arguing that cycling lanes directly next to cars were a far greater risk to safety than dedicated and physically separated bike paths.
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-new ... z3ICtjPERD
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

Big RR
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Re: A lot at stake

Post by Big RR »

Tell me this Big RR, if the second clown wasn't riding "slightly behind" and therefore too close to the first clown to avoid the accident, where was he riding - how far back?
Tell me, regardless of how far back he was or wasn't riding would he have been involved in the accident if he chose not to ride a bike that day? Of course not, but that is not a reason to say he was responsible for the accident or his injuries. He has a right to ride his bike.

As for how or where he was riding, parse the words all you want but none of us knows. However the judge does, the defendant and his counsel do, and his manner of riding were not found to be contributory negligence anymore than his riding a bike in the first place would be. I ride my bike by myself and don't ride with others so I really don't know how he would have to have been riding to be negligent, and neither do you. All I do know is that a court of law, after hearing all the evidence (which would have included evidence on that matter, as well as others) did not find him contributorily negligent; however based on an 800 word essay you are saying you know better.

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Re: A lot at stake

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

As for how or where he was riding, parse the words all you want but none of us knows
Court documents said David Blick was riding slightly ahead of Michael Anthony Franklin
The duty of care and responsibility of a cyclist in the position described in this instance rests just as much with the following cyclist as it does with the lead cyclist," cyclist Daniel Green told The Canberra Times' cycling blog The Lycra Diaries.

"By drafting very close behind or beside another cyclist, you are putting yourself at greater risk as you can be directly impeded or contacted by that other cyclist. If you are not comfortable and confident with this situation, then do not place yourself in that position."
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For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

Big RR
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Re: A lot at stake

Post by Big RR »

Well, we're just talking in circles now; no sense continuing the spiral. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

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Crackpot
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Re: A lot at stake

Post by Crackpot »

:loon
Big RR wrote:Well, we're just talking in circles now; no sense continuing the spiral. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: A lot at stake

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

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For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

Big RR
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Re: A lot at stake

Post by Big RR »

Now, now children.

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: A lot at stake

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

OK, Snoopy!
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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