Belgium Bans the Burka

[Big RR]

And if someone tried walking thru a shopping mall in the U.S./Canada in a bikini, mall security would toss her out on her ass, and if she refused to leave she would be arrested for trespassing. So let's not pretend this was "cultural".

Maybe, maybe not; I honestly don't know. But what's the point, that some of the Arab countries are inolerant? Fine, I doubt few here wouldn't concede that; indeed, that's one reason that I don't choose to live there. But the point is we can, and should, be better and tolerate differences in customs and dress where practical.

[loCAtek]

Well let's put it this way...this didn't happen steps away from a beach.

Well, the Middle East is one big sandy beach ...what it's missing is the surf.

[Andrew D]

And if someone tried walking thru a shopping mall in the U.S./Canada in a bikini, mall security would toss her out on her ass ....

I've seen it happen many times without incident. Barefoot, on the other hand ....

[Gob]

But the point is we can, and should, be better and tolerate differences in customs and dress where practical.

"Where practical" being the line in the sand.

[Andrew D]

Maybe instead of "where practical," the standard should be something like "except where countervailing considerations of compelling weight make it impracticable".

[Gob]

I bow to your superior legalese Andrew.

Maybe Hen should have a crack at drafting something, she's hot at that.

[Gob]

France has banned them!

The French Senate has overwhelmingly passed a bill banning the burqa-style Islamic veil in public.



The leaders of both parliamentary houses said they have already asked a special council to ensure the measure passes constitutional muster amid concerns it tramples on religious freedoms.

The Senate voted 246 to 1 on Tuesday in favour of the bill, which has already passed in the lower chamber, the National Assembly. It will need President Nicolas Sarkozy's signature.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/french-sena ... utostart=1

[Gob]

Italy next...

The thing that tickles me is that Ali Quaddy is threatening terrorist attacks following these bans.

"Hey guys the Islamist extremists are threatening to blow us up if we ban the Burka. Best ban the burka then to reduce the chance of them smuggling suicide bombs about under them..."

Italy is set to become the next European country to ban the burka after a government report ruled in favour of the proposed legislation.



MPs from the anti-immigration Northern League party, a member of Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi’s ruling right wing coalition, have presented the proposal in a bill. It comes just weeks after France banned the wearing of burkas and other forms of face veils - a decision which prompted al Qaeda terrorists to vow revenge.

An Interior Ministry report now being considered by the Constitutional Affairs Commission says that if introduced the law should make clear burkas and other face coverings were being banned not for 'religious reasons but for security reasons.' As part of their investigation the Interior Ministry heard from several leading Muslims on the use of the burka and several pointed out there was no mention of its use at all in the Koran.

Ejaz Ahmed, of the Italian Islam Committee said: 'The use of the burka and the niqab does not have its origins in the Koran - in fact it is not even mentioned in the Koran. 'The burka has nothing to do with religion and was being worn even before Islam was founded - it was worn by the Romans, Byzantines and Persians and wearing it is not a religious obligation.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z11u9KCe8R

[Scooter]

Neither of the above are pictures of burkas. Perhaps these politicos might actually learn what they are banning before doing so.

Or could this be (what a surprise) yet another case of the Daily Mail not knowing the facts they keep pulling out of their ass?

[Gob]

A burqa (also transliterated burkha, burka or burqua from Arabic: برقع‎ burqu‘ or burqa‘ ) is an enveloping outer garment worn by women in some Islamic traditions to cover their bodies in public places. The burqa is usually understood to be the woman's loose body-covering (Arabic: jilbāb), plus the head-covering (Arabic: ḥijāb, taking the most usual meaning), plus the face-veil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa

The burqa is a piece of clothing that covers a woman from head to foot. There is an opening for the eyes, but the rest of the body, except the hands, are covered. The burqa is usually made of light clothing, and is essentially outerwear for some Muslim women in some regions. It is worn when women leave their homes, over their indoor clothes. It's not worn indoors in the presence of family.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-burqa.htm

[Scooter]

There is a difference between a niqab and a burka. One leaves the eyes uncovered. The other does not.

[Gob]

Because of the wide variety of hijab worn in the Muslim world, it can be difficult to definitively distinguish between one type of veil and another. The terms niqāb and burqa are often used interchangeably.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niq%C4%81b

[Scooter]

And, it appears, incorrectly by those seeking to inflame passions.

[Gob]

Well if you have better information, I'm sure you could edit that Wiki page.

[Andrew D]

Why do the labels matter? Is it of any significance whether someone's headgear is called a burqa or a hijab or anything else? Isn't the core of the matter under what circumstances people should or should not be allowed to conceal their faces?

[Scooter]

Well if you have better information, I'm sure you could edit that Wiki page.

I suppose I could if I had any interest in refuting statements that are completely unsourced (follow the footnote on the quote you included above and see where it leads you).

Why do the labels matter? Is it of any significance whether someone's headgear is called a burqa or a hijab or anything else? Isn't the core of the matter under what circumstances people should or should not be allowed to conceal their faces?

Perhaps determining whether the garment one is attempting to ban actually conceals the face, and to what extent, would be a good start, which would be where accurate use of terminology might help.

[Andrew D]

Well, sure, figuring out what might be banned is an essential step in deciding whether banning it is or is not a good idea. (And I do not favor any wholesale ban of any garment.) But the whole burqa vs. hijab vs. whatever else other people might call such things (I'm guessing that the Farsi words might be different from the Arabic words) bit strikes me more as a Gotcha! point than as a serious issue.

[Big RR]

Andrew--I agree to apoint, but in this time of intolerance, especially as to Arabs and moslems, the words "burqua" and "hijab" can provoke a much more emotional response among some than "head scarf" or "head covering" or "veil". And I think this is often the reason the words are used, banning something as innocuous as a head scarf might provoke laughter or concern (since many people of many backgrounds choose to wear them), but banning a Burqua worn by the violent and dangerous THEM is a rallying call.

It should be a discussion as to when wearing a face or head covering might be appropriate, but it often degenerates into a discussion about THEM.

[Scooter]

BigRR has it exactly right. The labels matter, not because of a need to be pedantic, but because those using them are doing so in order to inflame passions. And "burqa" or "burka" or "burq'a" or whatever other variants conjure up a particular image of extreme, separatist, woman-oppressing Islam that suits the purpose of those writing for rags like the Daily Mail, in a way that more correct terminology would not.

[Gob]

It should be a discussion as to when wearing a face or head covering might be appropriate, but it often degenerates into a discussion about THEM.

It only "degenerates" into a discussion about "them", when "they" want rights above and beyond those of the rest of society.

Can ANYONE walk into a bank/underground tube station/government office with full face concealment of any kind? No.

Why can "THEY"?