"Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

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Econoline
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"Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

Post by Econoline »

Has the U.S. House of Representatives just committed an act of war?
House approval of Keystone XL pipeline is
an ‘act of war': Rosebud Sioux Tribe


The House of Representatives committed an “act of war” against Native Americans when it approved the controversial Keystone pipeline last week, a Sioux tribal leader said.

The GOP-led House voted on Friday to approve the Alberta-to-Nebraska pipeline — but Cyril Scott, president of the Rosebud Sioux tribe in South Dakota vowed to block it.

Scott has threatened to close Rosebud's borders if any attempt to build the pipeline is made.

Rosebud Sioux Tribal President Cyril Scott (center) called the House approval of the Keystone XL pipeline an “act of war.”

“Act of war means that we’re going to have to take legal maneuvers now,” Scott told the Daily News over the phone. “We’re going to protect our land and our way of life.”

The pipeline is not a done deal, but the Republican majority in the House had a staggering lead of 252-161 votes for TransCanada’s 875-mile pipeline through the United States.

The international pipeline would funnel tar sands oil through Montana, South Dakota and Nebraska - right through the Rosebud tribal lands.

Scott argued the pipeline violates the 1868 Treaty of Fort Laramie that gave the land known as the Black Hills to the Sioux Nation.

“When it comes to treaties, they forget about us. ... People forget that we’re a sovereign nation,” Scott said. “Everybody else ... they’re just guests here.”

Republicans tout the pipeline as a boon for jobs in construction, refinement and distribution. It could also reduce the country’s dependency on foreign oil from the Middle East with 830,000 barrels of crude oil pumping through the 36-inch pipe each day.

Opponents of the pipeline, some Democrats and environmentalists, believe it will lengthen the world’s addiction to fossil fuel and hasten climate change.

The proposed pipeline would run about 830,000 barrels of crude oil from Alberta, Canada to Steele City, Nebraska.

The pipeline has also been defended by the State Department in a report released in January that stated it would not greatly increase carbon emissions or affect the Ogallala Aquifer that provides water to the majority of the Great Plains.

But leaks could happen, the department admitted.

“It’s not if it breaks, it’s when it breaks,” Scott added.

The Senate will vote on the proposed bill sponored by Rep. Bill Cassidy, R-La. this week, but it’s not clear if President Barack Obama will let the legislation pass after putting it off for the past six years.

The bill was supported by 31 Democrats.
"Now That the Buffalo's Gone" by Buffy Sainte-Marie (written in 1964):
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

oldr_n_wsr
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Re: "Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

Post by oldr_n_wsr »

But leaks could happen, the department admitted.

“It’s not if it breaks, it’s when it breaks,” Scott added.
Same was said about the Alaskan pipeline way back when. And I think the envronment and geogrophy was a little harsher than what it is for hte keystone. Seems that has been doing pretty well all these years. It's not like we don't know how to do this safely.

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Sue U
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Re: "Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

Post by Sue U »

oldr_n_wsr wrote:
But leaks could happen, the department admitted.

“It’s not if it breaks, it’s when it breaks,” Scott added.
Same was said about the Alaskan pipeline way back when. And I think the envronment and geogrophy was a little harsher than what it is for hte keystone. Seems that has been doing pretty well all these years. It's not like we don't know how to do this safely.
Ahem .... from 2006:
Leak is latest of Alaska's pipeline woes

Some 500 spills a year occur in the Prudhoe Bay oil fields and along the 800-mile, three-decade-old pipeline system.

By Brad Knickerbocker, Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
August 9, 2006

When oil began flowing south from Alaska's North Slope to the port at Valdez nearly 30 years ago, it was a new era for US energy production and distribution. From the start, it was a technologically daring and politically controversial project. As evidenced by this week's shutdown of a portion of pipeline in the Prudhoe Bay oil field due to a spill, it remains so today.

Despite what industry supporters say are more environmentally friendly ways of detecting and extracting oil from the North Slope today, the means of transporting the liquid gold south is old and – critics say – becoming dangerously decrepit. In some places pipeline walls have lost as much as 80 percent of their thickness as a result of corrosion, industry officials say.

Meanwhile, environmental, economic, and legal fallout continues from the 1989 oil spill, which dumped at least 11 million gallons of oil onto 1,200 miles of shoreline in Prince William Sound after the tanker Exxon Valdez had filled up at the pipeline's southern terminal.

All of this adds urgency to the long-running debate over whether to allow drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

Though most oil pipelines in Alaska have exceeded their 25-year design life they're generally safe and secure, industry officials say. Corrosion expert Bill Hedges, who works for BP, the company whose pipeline recently sprung a leak, says many lines are in "excellent condition."

The corrosion detection and control program in the 800-mile Trans-Alaska Pipeline system (TAPS) is "world class," says BP America chief executive Bob Malone. The pipeline is operated by Alyeska Pipeline Service Co, which Mr. Malone used to head.

But at a news conference Monday in Anchorage, Alaska, BP officials acknowledged that the company's method of testing the thickness of Prudhoe Bay transit pipelines connecting to the trans-Alaska system had proved inadequate.

"Clearly, we are already in the process of adjusting considerably our corrosion program," said Steve Marshall, president of BP Exploration (Alaska).

The pipeline system presents major environmental and design challenges. It crosses more than 800 rivers and streams, three mountain ranges, and three major active faults. Three-quarters of it traverses fragile permafrost. It is built in zigzag fashion to allow for expansion and contraction during temperature changes as well as movement from possible earthquakes.

Maintenance in the oil fields and along the TAPS includes sending mechanical devices known as "smart pigs" through portions of the pipeline to check for corrosion that can cause leaks. BP also uses ultrasound imaging to check pipeline integrity, as it did in the portion where a leak was discovered Sunday. Mr. Marshall now acknowledges that ultrasound is not a foolproof safety device.

In recent years, about 500 oil spills have occurred in the Prudhoe Bay oil fields and along the 800-mile pipeline each year, according to the Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation, even though the daily "throughput" of oil has declined from about 2 million barrels a day in 1987 to less than half that today. Most leaks are minor, quickly detected, and remedied.

But in March, the largest leak in North Slope production history – as many as 267,000 gallons – poured out of a corroded pipeline at the Prudhoe Bay complex for five days before being discovered. Since then, US EPA investigators have been seeking to determine whether BP violated the federal Clean Water Act by failing to prevent corrosion in the ruptured line. If it did, criminal charges could follow.

By comparison, the most recent oil spill was about 200 gallons. The consequent shutdown came after inspection tests found 16 thin spots from what BP officials said was "unexpectedly severe corrosion." The last time a "smart pig" had been used to check that line was in 1992.

"We knew it was a problem that would get worse over time," said former Alaska Gov. Tony Knowles (D) Monday. He's running this fall to regain his old seat.

BP expects to replace 16 miles of pipeline, which could take months.

Meanwhile, federal and state agencies say the damage to wildlife and habitat in Prince William Sound continues from the Exxon Valdez spill.

Under a 1991 settlement agreement, Exxon (now Exxon Mobil) was required to pay $900 million over 10 years for environmental restoration. But the settlement included a "Reopener for Unknown Injury" provision extending until 2006.

Last month, the US Justice Department and the Alaska Department of Law invoked that provision to seek another $92 million from Exxon Mobil for bioremediation and other technologies used to remove the larger patches of remaining oil that US scientists say continue to harm ducks, sea otters, shellfish, and other marine life.

• Yereth Rosen in Anchorage, Alaska, contributed to this report
.
And from 2011:
Oil Leak Is Latest Mishap for Alaska’s Troubled Pipelines
by Marian Wang
ProPublica, Jan. 10, 2011, 1:53 p.m.

Almost all oil production on Alaska’s North Slope remains shut down after workers on the Trans-Alaska Pipeline system discovered a leak over the weekend. BP, the pipeline company’s largest single owner, has called it a “significant event.”

BP is no stranger to pipeline problems in Alaska. We recently reported that a BP maintenance report in October found severe corrosion throughout its own system of pipelines, and workers had complained of “Band-Aid” solutions to long-running maintenance issues.

At the time, BP spokesman Steve Rinehart told us that the company has “an aggressive and comprehensive pipeline inspection and maintenance program,” and the 148 pipelines ranked “F” for corrosion were not necessarily a current safety risk. “We will not operate equipment or facilities that we believe are unsafe,” he said.

BP’s listing of corroded pipes and its documentation of pipeline failures wouldn’t have included the Trans-Alaska Pipeline, which is operated by Alyeska Pipeline Service—technically a separate company. But as we’ve noted, Alyeska is largely controlled by BP, which owns 47 percent of the company. Other owners include ConocoPhillips, Exxon Mobil, Unocal Pipeline, and Koch Alaska Pipeline.

With the exception of the company’s current CEO, Alyeska has always taken its top talent on loan from one if its oil company owners, and only once has its CEO come from a company that’s not BP, noted AlaskaDispatch. Alyeska’s current CEO, Thomas Barrett, took his post on January 1, exactly one week before the most recent spill was detected.

The pipeline system has had a long history of maintenance problems and worker safety complaints. Here’s what we reported in November:

In 2006, two spills from corroded pipes in Alaska placed the company's maintenance problems in the national spotlight. At the time, BP temporarily shut down transmission of a portion of its oil from its Prudhoe Bay field to the continental United States, cutting off approximately 4 percent of the nation's domestic oil supply, while it examined its pipeline system.

Photographs taken by employees in the Prudhoe Bay drilling field this summer, and viewed by ProPublica, show sagging and rusted pipelines, some dipping in gentle U-shapes into pools of water and others sinking deeply into thawing permafrost. Marc Kovac, a BP mechanic and welder, said some of the pipes have hundreds of patches on them and that BP's efforts to rehabilitate the lines were not funded well enough to keep up with their rate of decline.

Several more close calls on Alaskan pipelines came between September 2008 and November 2009, when three BP gas and oil pipelines on Alaska's North Slope ruptured or clogged, as we’ve reported.

Prior to this weekend’s incident, the most recent closure of the Trans-Alaska Pipeline occurred in May—during the BP oil spill—when “several thousand barrels” of oil spilled from the 800-mile line.
GAH!

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Guinevere
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Re: "Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

Post by Guinevere »

KeystoneXL supporters have been selling the pipeline as "safer" than railcar delivery of crude, but the current spill frequency of all US pipelines is 1X month and the spills are larger than railcar spills.

http://www.prwatch.org/news/2014/02/124 ... man-health

NOT WORTH contaminating the Ogallala aquifer --- one of the world's largest sources of drinking water.

Google Mayflower Arkansas, pipeline, if you don't believe me. Long complex pipeline ARE NOT SAFER and the volume moved is a huge risk.

(BTW, I DESPISE what the Dems are doing in the Senate right now re: KXL)
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Econoline
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Re: "Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

Post by Econoline »

oldr_n_wsr wrote:Seems that has been doing pretty well all these years. It's not like we don't know how to do this safely.
So...I gather that you would have no problem with a foreign corporation using eminent domain to seize part of your front yard in order to build, oh, say, a gas station, or a waste landfill, or a propane storage tank--as long as they "know how to do it safely"???

P.S. Oh wait...maybe somebody doesn't "know how to do it safely"?

P.P.S. No comment from anyone yet about the aspect of violating a treaty with the Sioux?

P.P.P.S. Or about the Buffy Sainte-Marie song? :arg
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: "Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

PPS so send for Sioux U!

PPPS crap singer.. all those warbles
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Lord Jim
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Re: "Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

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P.P.S. No comment from anyone yet about the aspect of violating a treaty with the Sioux?
If Chief Cyril decides to go on The Warpath he'll have heap big trouble:

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Lord Jim
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Re: "Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

Post by Lord Jim »

Well, it was defeated in the Senate 59-41...

That's 59 in favor, 41 against...

Hey, doesn't anyone want to condemn those obstructionist filibuster using Liberal Democrats for frustrating majority rule?

Why do they hate democracy?
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Joe Guy
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Re: "Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

Post by Joe Guy »

Stay tuned. Early next year those Racist Paranoid Gun-toting Obstructive Conservatives will pass that bill and that Arrogant Uppity America-Hating Socialist Muslim will veto it.

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Guinevere
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Re: "Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

Post by Guinevere »

I believe I posted above that I DESPISE what the Senate Dems did on KXL this week.

And you will also recall that we already had the live by the sword/die by the sword discussion about the filibuster issuer. Although Joe's right on --- although I think its 50/50 that the President has the stones/guts to veto if it passes in the new Congress.

Finally, re: the Black Hills treaties --- never been enforced before, not going to be enforced now, certainly not on something involving "oil" for heavens sakes. It's wrong but no one in Congress or the Courts have the stones/guts to deal with the issue. :shrug
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

rubato
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Re: "Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

Post by rubato »

Why are McConnell and Boehner working so hard for ... Canada ?

Aren't they in OUR government?

Or are they pure Koch whores? Don't they even have to pretend to work for us?

We have a tiny and short-term plus with some temporary employment to build the thing and a long long minus with all the costs of inevitable spills and the environmental degradation of burning more low-quality fossil fuels.


yrs,
rubato

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BoSoxGal
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Re: "Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

Post by BoSoxGal »

A few comments:

Sue U, thank you for always posting what I would post, if I'd gotten here quicker.

Econo, thank you for knowing how to use the PS, PPS, PPPS, etc. - I can't express how crazy it makes me when people write "PSS" instead! :loon

LJ, I have no idea why, but I'm very grateful that the image for your favorite football team has somehow become defective such that it no longer shows up - just that little broken image linky thing. :ok :ok :ok :ok :ok

As to violating a treaty with Native Americans - we've violated almost all of them thus far, why change now??? :arg

Kill the pipeline, put the money into alternative energy!!!!!
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Lord Jim
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Re: "Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

Post by Lord Jim »

LJ, I have no idea why, but I'm very grateful that the image for your favorite football team has somehow become defective such that it no longer shows up - just that little broken image linky thing.
That sounds like a personal problem BSG, it looks fine to me...

Did you do get a browser add on that filters out non-trendy Liberal images? 8-)
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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: "Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

I did. It's an app called "Antidickwave" and it makes for a lot more room on the screen :nana
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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BoSoxGal
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Re: "Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

Post by BoSoxGal »

I think I know why it works for you but not for me (and maybe others) but hey, let's forget I said anything and keep things status quo. ;)
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Econoline
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Re: "Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

Post by Econoline »

Lord Jim wrote:If Chief Cyril decides to go on The Warpath he'll have heap big trouble
Heh. Riiiiight...

"HAIL TO THE REDSKINS" indeed. You talk a good game, but when the chips are down you're rooting for the Cowboys, eh? ;) :nana
Guinevere wrote:Finally, re: the Black Hills treaties --- never been enforced before, not going to be enforced now, certainly not on something involving "oil" for heavens sakes. It's wrong but no one in Congress or the Courts have the stones/guts to deal with the issue. :shrug
bigskygal wrote:As to violating a treaty with Native Americans - we've violated almost all of them thus far, why change now??? :arg
Yeah, that's pretty much it, isn't it...?

BTW, I posted that song for a reason. The lyrics hit me hard when I first heard them in 1964, the first track on Buffy Sainte-Marie's first album. It is *SO* depressing to know that those lyrics are still just as relevant today as they were 50 years ago.
When a war between nations is lost,
The loser, we know, pays the cost...
But even when Germany fell to your hands--
Consider dear lady, consider dear man--
You left them their pride and you left them their land.
And what have you done to these ones?

Has a change come about Uncle Sam?
Or are you still taking our lands?
A treaty forever George Washington signed--
He did dear lady, he did dear man--
And the treaty's being broken by Kinzua Dam...
And what will you do for these ones?

Oh, it's all in the past you can say,
But it's still going on here today.
The government now wants the Iroquois land,
That of the Seneca and the Cheyenne...
It's here and it's now you can help us dear man,
Now that the buffalo's gone.
:arg :evil:
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: "Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Ah, just the one buffalo? Well, let's get it back.

Actually this is all batshit. The "native Americans" (sic) were busy beating the crap out of each other (including genocidal activity), out of Mexicans and out of buffalo as the Euro-settlers were. The latter were simply more efficient. There are no saints here - other than between Buffy and Marie
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

dgs49
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Re: "Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

Post by dgs49 »

The first thing you do when Gub'mint wants your land is to sue them. That's how you maximize the settlement you get under eminent domain. All it changes - and the only reason it's done - is to increase the payout.

Even Injuns know that much.

"...an act of war..."

Gimme a break.

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Long Run
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Re: "Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

Post by Long Run »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:The "native Americans" (sic) were busy beating the crap out * * * of buffalo as the Euro-settlers were. The latter were simply more efficient. There are no saints here - other than between Buffy and Marie
I'll just note that the American government made it an actual policy of the state to wipe out the buffalo herds to force the Commanche and other tribes to finally cave and live on reservations (I once read a book and it talked about this: Empire of the Summer Moon). Thus, while the Native Americans were indeed slowly depleting their food source even before the white intrusion (but, of course, most of that native depletion is due to the use of the horse, which was introduced by the Europeans as well), it took an intentional act of the government to basically wipe the species out in the matter of a decade.

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Re: "Now That the Buffalo's Gone"

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

More efficient, as I stated. No argument from me on this.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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