Sue U wrote:Lord Jim wrote:Sue, as Meade and Strop have pointed out, you're either unfamiliar with the context of this, or deliberately ignoring it...
A good US analogy might be a special election in a rural Southern Congressional District where the Democrats have no chance of winning...
A well-heeled member of the Obama Administration sends out a tweet with a picture of a humble abode in that district with multiple American flags displayed in front , that reads:
"#Mississippi Third Congressional District"....
The sneering implications of that would be obvious...
Well, that wouldn't be "obvious" to me at all. I have never known ANY U.S. politician to sneer at any display of the American flag. If anything, American politicians are unduly reverent of the flag, regardless of presentation. I frankly think it says much more about
you that you think someone from the other major U.S. political party would be "sneering" with such a picture.
Lord Jim wrote:(As a member of The Left who looks down her nose in a sneering and condescending manner at those who you see as engaging in "ostentatious" expressions of patriotism, perhaps you missed this...
)
I don't know who the hell you think you're talking to, but I certainly don't sneer at anyone's expression of patriotism. I consider myself a patriot. And I engage in all manner of corny and "ostentatious" expressions of patriotism -- from the Fourth of July parade I never miss, complete with flag-waving; to Memorial Day grave decoration; to placing my hand on my heart when hearing The Star Spangled Banner; to reciting the Pledge of Allegiance (I do admit leaving out the "under God" part); to defending the Constitution as a solemn oath of my profession. I love baseball and apple pie and Mom. I take seriously the values of the "American Way" and am deeply grateful for the refuge and opportunity this land has afforded me and my family. For fuck's sake, I am taking my family to Washington DC for Christmas break to tour the Capitol and all the monuments. I cannot afford to "sneer" at anyone's patriotism.
What I despise is people who use patriotism as a fig leaf for a political agenda, cynically attempting to make "patriotism" synonymous with a particular -- i.e. right wing -- political orientation. The fact that you blithely and falsely accuse "many on The Left" -- and me in particular -- of "sneering" at patriotism indicates your own participation in this revolting form of propaganda that is anathema to genuine American values. You know who sneers at patriotism? Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Roger Ailes, Rupert Murdoch and the rest of the right-wing media. For them, patriotism is nothing more than a marketing tool.
But do not ever doubt my sincerity.
This. Every word.
I waited for Sue to speak, to have my say.
Let's be crystal clear, there is NO MONOPOLY on love for your country, its ideals, its people. There are many many forms of patriotism, and to paraphrase Howard Zinn, that most absolutely includes dissent. Anyone who claims otherwise, who wants all Americans walking in lockstep, has no fucking clue what this country is about, or how it began.
Emma Goldman made a couple of interesting and perceptive points about Patriotism, in 1908:
What Is Patriotism?
by Emma Goldman
1908
San Francisco, California
Men and Women:
What is patriotism? Is it love of one's birthplace, the place of childhood's recollections and hopes, dreams and aspirations? Is it the place where, in childlike naivete, we would watch the passing clouds, and wonder why we, too, could not float so swiftly? The place where we would count the milliard glittering stars, terror-stricken lest each one "an eye should be," piercing the very depths of our little souls? Is it the place where we would listen to the music of the birds and long to have wings to fly, even as they, to distant lands? Or is it the place where we would sit on Mother's knee, enraptured by tales of great deeds and conquests? In short, is it love for the spot, every inch representing dear and precious recollections of a happy, joyous and playful childhood?
If that were patriotism, few American men of today would be called upon to be patriotic, since the place of play has been turned into factory, mill, and mine, while deepening sounds of machinery have replaced the music of the birds. No longer can we hear the tales of great deeds, for the stories our mothers tell today are but those of sorrow, tears and grief.
What, then, is patriotism? "Patriotism, sir, is the last resort of scoundrels," said Dr. [Samuel] Johnson. Leo Tolstoy, the greatest anti-patriot of our time, defines patriotism as the principle that will justify the training of wholesale murderers; a trade that requires better equipment in the exercise of man-killing than the making of such necessities as shoes, clothing, and houses; a trade that guarantees better returns and greater glory than that of the honest workingman...
Indeed, conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism. Let me illustrate. Patriotism assumes that our globe is divided into little spots, each one surrounded by an iron gate. Those who have had the fortune of being born on some particular spot consider themselves nobler, better, grander, more intelligent than those living beings inhabiting any other spot. It is, therefore, the duty of everyone living on that chosen spot to fight, kill and die in the attempt to impose his superiority upon all the others. The inhabitants of the other spots reason in like manner, of course, with the result that from early infancy the mind of the child is provided with blood-curdling stories about the Germans, the French, the Italians, Russians, etc. When the child has reached manhood he is thoroughly saturated with the belief that he is chosen by the Lord himself to defend his country against the attack or invasion of any foreigner. It is for that purpose that we are clamoring for a greater army and navy, more battleships and ammunition...
An army and navy represent the people's toys. To make them more attractive and acceptable, hundreds and thousands of dollars are being spent for the display of toys. That was the purpose of the American government in equipping a fleet and sending it along the Pacific coast, that every American citizen should be made to feel the pride and glory of the United States.
The city of San Francisco spent one hundred thousand dollars for the entertainment of the fleet; Los Angeles, sixty thousand; Seattle and Tacoma, about one hundred thousand... Yes, two hundred and sixty thousand dollars were spent on fireworks, theater parties, and revelries, at a time when men, women, and children through the breadth and length of the country were starving in the streets; when thousands of unemployed were ready to sell their labor at any price.
What could not have been accomplished with such an enormous sum? But instead of bread and shelter, the children of those cities were taken to see the fleet, that it may remain, as one newspaper said, "a lasting memory for the child."
A wonderful thing to remember, is it not? The implements of civilized slaughter. If the mind of the child is poisoned with such memories, what hope is there for a true realization of human brotherhood?
We Americans claim to be a peace-loving people. We hate bloodshed; we are opposed to violence. Yet we go into spasms of joy over the possibility of projecting dynamite bombs from flying machines upon helpless citizens. We are ready to hang, electrocute, or lynch anyone, who, from economic necessity, will risk his own life in the attempt upon that of some industrial magnate. Yet our hearts swell with pride at the thought that America is becoming the most powerful nation on earth, and that she will eventually plant her iron foot on the necks of all other nations.
Such is the logic of patriotism.
...Thinking men and women the world over are beginning to realize that patriotism is too narrow and limited a conception to meet the necessities of our time. The centralization of power has brought into being an international feeling of solidarity among the oppressed nations of the world; a solidarity which represents a greater harmony of interests between the workingman of America and his brothers abroad than between the American miner and his exploiting compatriot; a solidarity which fears not foreign invasion, because it is bringing all the workers to the point when they will say to their masters, "Go and do your own killing. We have done it long enough for you."
...The proletariat of Europe has realized the great force of that solidarity and has, as a result, inaugurated a war against patriotism and its bloody specter, militarism. Thousands of men fill the prisons of France, Germany, Russia and the Scandinavian countries because they dared to defy the ancient superstition...
America will have to follow suit. The spirit of militarism has already permeated all walks of life. Indeed, I am convinced that militarism is a greater danger here than anywhere else, because of the many bribes capitalism holds out to those whom it wishes to destroy...
The beginning has already been made in the schools... Children are trained in military tactics, the glory of military achievements extolled in the curriculum, and the youthful mind perverted to suit the government. Further, the youth of the country is appealed to in glaring posters to join the Army and the Navy. "A fine chance to see the world!" cries the governmental huckster. Thus innocent boys are morally shanghaied into patriotism, and the military Moloch strides conquering through the nation...
When we have undermined the patriotic lie, we shall have cleared the path for the great structure where all shall be united into a universal brotherhood -- a truly free society.
I don't agree with all she said, nor do I expect anyone else here to agree. But isn't that the point?
