Ferguson Riot Watch...

Right? Left? Centre?
Political news and debate.
Put your views and articles up for debate and destruction!
User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: Ferguson Riot Watch...

Post by Lord Jim »

Last night, there were Feguson related protests all over the country, in cities from New York to Los Angeles . In most places, the demonstrations were peaceful, with only minor incidents. Take a wild guess in which city this wasn't the case:

Ferguson Protests In Oakland Turn Ugly For 2nd Straight Night: Freeways Blocked, Looting, Fires

OAKLAND (CBS SF) — For the second night in a row, protests over the grand jury decision in the Michael Brown shooting case have turned violent in the streets of Oakland, with blocked freeways and reports of fires, vandalism and looting.

The California Highway Patrol said multiple arrests have been made after protesters lit fires and set off fireworks in front of the Oakland CHP office. At least one firearm was taken off a protester that was vandalizing a police car, police said.

Looters were spotted in multiple locations Tuesday night. A group smashed windows and ran inside a classic car dealership near 42nd Street and Telegraph Avenue. There was also looting spotted at a T-Mobile store near 51st Street and Telegraph Avenue.

Fires were reported in several locations in Oakland, including 40th and Telegraph Avenue. In that location, people appeared to drag garbage cans from the neighborhood, stretched them across the street and used trash to keep the fires going.

Around 9:00 p.m., vandalism was spotted at a Walgreens near 34th and Telegraph Avenue. Witnesses said protesters tried to storm into the store, but others stopped them. Windows were smashed and graffiti was sprayed along the side of the building.

Shortly before 9:00 p.m., protesters blocked Interstate 580 in both directions near the Interstate 980 / Highway 24 interchange. Police quickly arrived to disperse the crowd and the freeway reopened about 15 minutes later.

Earlier, protesters blocked both directions of Interstate 980 near Castro Street in Downtown Oakland around 6:20 p.m. Tuesday night. The CHP said the freeway was closed for about 10 minutes.

For much of the evening, protesters were seen marching on surface streets through Downtown Oakland. After 7 p.m., CHP officers shut down the Broadway offramp from northbound Interstate 880 to prevent protesters from blocking traffic.

The protests in Oakland were mostly peaceful in the early evening.

The protesters are among many groups across the country who took to the streets for the second straight night after a Missouri grand jury decided Monday that Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson, who fatally shot Brown in August, would not be indicted. Protests were also held in Ferguson, Los Angeles, New York and dozens of other cities. A protest in San Francisco’s Mission District ended early without incident.

On Monday night, protesters blocked Interstate 580 in both directions near Lakeshore Avenue for several hours.

Monday’s protests in Downtown Oakland turned violent when some people set fires, broke storefront windows and looted businesses. Around 40 people were arrested.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/1 ... -shooting/

You can set your watch by it... :roll:
ImageImageImage

User avatar
MajGenl.Meade
Posts: 21313
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:51 am
Location: Groot Brakrivier
Contact:

Re: Ferguson Riot Watch...

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

... before you are mugged for the watch
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

wesw
Posts: 9646
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:24 am
Location: the eastern shore

Re: Ferguson Riot Watch...

Post by wesw »

I served on a grand jury as a very young man.
I learned that a grand jury has great powers. the may usually follow the prosecutor s lead, but they can choose to go their own way if they want to. once they are seated they can investigate what ever they want to.

correct?

I think that grand juries should be run this way more often. indicting ham sammiches is pointless

User avatar
Guinevere
Posts: 8990
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: Ferguson Riot Watch...

Post by Guinevere »

Protests of 1500 or so in Boston last night. Peaceful, but they tried to access the main highway in and out if the City to stop traffic and were blocked from doing so.

I was with one of my Police Chief clients much of yesterday and he was on high alert - constant texts and emails about the Ferguson reaction. He was also utterly frustrated about the 9pm release of the result - it is clear policing is more difficult at night, and people tend to behave with more impunity since they can't be seen as well. A poor choice in a string of poor choices and one that put the community at risk.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

User avatar
MajGenl.Meade
Posts: 21313
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:51 am
Location: Groot Brakrivier
Contact:

Re: Ferguson Riot Watch...

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Image

But leaving that aside, on to Guin's post - good points. I wondered if that info release time was predicated upon any erm... racist thinking. At night, all the white folks would be safely at home and the only people on the streets would be naughty people? I also wondered if it wasn't something to do with making sure school was out.

It seems logical that the cover of darkness makes crime... not 'easier' perhaps but more likely. However, it wouldn't be right to say that riots only take place at night and I do supposes that the more favourable view of the timing was something to do with getting the innocent (of whatever race) out of the way. A riot during rush hour (Ferguson?) would potentially offer more danger to persons as well as to property.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

User avatar
TPFKA@W
Posts: 4833
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:50 am

Re: Ferguson Riot Watch...

Post by TPFKA@W »

They should have announced it between 4-6 am. Usually these thugass types have headed to bed and they don't roll out early like working people. :roll:

I am sick sick sick of this crap. From my perspective what I am seeing is thugs demanding a free pass for being thugs.

Peaceful existence is not some kind of rocket science. Stay out of situations that are apt to get you shot.

Oh oh, is that racist? At this point I no longer give a shit.

Big RR
Posts: 14798
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:47 pm

Re: Ferguson Riot Watch...

Post by Big RR »

Racist? I don't think so. But perhaps a bit shortsighted. Like it or not there are people who are racists, and some of them are cops who will persecute and physically abuse someone on account of his/her race. Did that happen here? It seems unlikely based on what I have read, but there are many times the opposite is true (and some of those acting like thugs might well be responding to that). When Abner Louima was introduced to the joys of broom/nightstick proctology, it was not just a matter of staying away from situations apt to get you buggered--there literally was no escape.

Sure some capitalize on the anger to cover their robbery and theft, and others raise hell just because they like to raise hell, but let's not ignore the legitimate anger that is there. In July of 2013, I was the guest soloist at a predominantly black church in Newark NJ on the day after Zimmerman was acquitted in killing Trayvon Martin; frankly, it was not a good day to be a white person in a church like that, but I had contracted to sing and went. After the service I went to the coffee hour and spoke with a number of people (some of them even said they were impressed I showed up)and got a fairly good idea on how they saw the acquittal based on their perspective and experiences. To many of them, rightly or wrongly, this was just another example of how the system screws the black man. I think the same thing is present here.

As Jim said before, this is certainly not a reason to indict a man when the evidence does not support it, nor is a justification for the crap that has been going on. But the violence is evidence of a growing divide in which a subset of the population honestly believes there is no justice for them because of their race and sees the police as enemies rather than friends. And that's something we have to address. It's easy to say "Look at those jerks", but a lot harder to really look at why this is happening. But IMHO it's something we need to do, or we'll all suffer the consequences.

User avatar
Long Run
Posts: 6722
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: Ferguson Riot Watch...

Post by Long Run »

Plus, as Scooter pointed out, there are plenty of thugs of all colors who will raise hell if given a chance. Smart move is to stay away (unlike say the stupid parents who brought their infants to some of the more riotous Occupy events).

oldr_n_wsr
Posts: 10838
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:59 am

Re: Ferguson Riot Watch...

Post by oldr_n_wsr »

You know what the problem is? That it takes something like this to look at and acknowledge the racial/social/economic divide. Sadly, in a week or so from now this incident will be relegated to a footnote.

If any tangible results are to come of this, it needs to be continually addressed. Not used by race baiters like Al Sharpton and his ilk to be forgetten about when the news cameras leave. Level heads in the affected communities (and even the unaffected communities) need to meet and each side needs to go in with an open mind toward the concerns and realities of each other. Each side must be willing to admit that there are some on their side who are part of the problem and each must deal with these troublemakers.

After each white on black incident there is a call for solutions yet no dialog happens. Why? I don't know. Maybe because everyone gets on with life until another "clash" brings in the media and the race baiters. Only the those involved and their families live with the results for the rest of their lives.

wesw
Posts: 9646
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:24 am
Location: the eastern shore

Re: Ferguson Riot Watch...

Post by wesw »

as much as this looks like mike brown was looking for trouble and that the grand jury made the correct decision, we have to face the fact that we have a problem with our policing and police. they are too quick to be brutal in many places. this may have it s roots in fear and the 90 s crack epidemic, or maybe it s the idea that the state should be all powerful that fuels their over reactions.

sure, they have a dangerous jobs and have a duty to get home safely every night, but that s not what I m talking about. I have seen two videos recently that opened my eyes. in one, a large man in NYC was put in a sleeper hold and he died. the cop ust jumped on his back and slapped it on him. he wasn t even resisting, he may have hesitated briefly in obeying them, but that s no excuse. maybe he had a prior record, but the cops did not look scared or anything. he did.

his offence? selling loose cigarettes...

the second video was of a black family in their car. they had been pulled over for the passenger, the dad, not having his seatbelt on.
this was after ferguson. the mom was scared and thought that they would hurt the dad, and the dad said that they weren t going to hurt him. the family was scared and would not roll the window down much or open the door. they were civil. they handed them out the paperwork they had.the mom called 911 and told hem to please send other cops because they were scared. the cops weren t scared. they just busted out the window beside the man s head with an axe. that ll learn 'em.

ialso remember Rodney king and his beating. it s impossible to put your hands over your head with someone kicking your ribs, you can t obey that command and the cops know it.

the black communities as all communities, , have their own own faults. two wrongs don t make a right.
Last edited by wesw on Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wesw
Posts: 9646
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:24 am
Location: the eastern shore

Re: Ferguson Riot Watch...

Post by wesw »

I thought of a song today and did not know whether to laugh or cry....

"bad, bad, Leroy brown, baddest man in the whole damn' town,

badder than ol' king kong, and meaner than a junkyard dog.... "

....and in the end, he looked like a jigsaw puzzle with a couple o' pcs gone. sad.

User avatar
MajGenl.Meade
Posts: 21313
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:51 am
Location: Groot Brakrivier
Contact:

Re: Ferguson Riot Watch...

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Benjamin Watson

Image
At some point while I was playing or preparing to play Monday Night Football, the news broke about the Ferguson Decision. After trying to figure out how I felt, I decided to write it down. Here are my thoughts:

I'M ANGRY because the stories of injustice that have been passed down for generations seem to be continuing before our very eyes.

I'M FRUSTRATED, because pop culture, music and movies glorify these types of police citizen altercations and promote an invincible attitude that continues to get young men killed in real life, away from safety movie sets and music studios.

I'M FEARFUL because in the back of my mind I know that although I'm a law abiding citizen I could still be looked upon as a "threat" to those who don't know me. So I will continue to have to go the extra mile to earn the benefit of the doubt.

I'M EMBARRASSED because the looting, violent protests, and law breaking only confirm, and in the minds of many, validate, the stereotypes and thus the inferior treatment.

I'M SAD, because another young life was lost from his family, the racial divide has widened, a community is in shambles, accusations, insensitivity hurt and hatred are boiling over, and we may never know the truth about what happened that day.

I'M SYMPATHETIC, because I wasn't there so I don't know exactly what happened. Maybe Darren Wilson acted within his rights and duty as an officer of the law and killed Michael Brown in self defense like any of us would in the circumstance. Now he has to fear the backlash against himself and his loved ones when he was only doing his job. What a horrible thing to endure. OR maybe he provoked Michael and ignited the series of events that led to him eventually murdering the young man to prove a point.

I'M OFFENDED, because of the insulting comments I've seen that are not only insensitive but dismissive to the painful experiences of others.

I'M CONFUSED, because I don't know why it's so hard to obey a policeman. You will not win!!! And I don't know why some policeman abuse their power. Power is a responsibility, not a weapon to brandish and lord over the populace.

I'M INTROSPECTIVE, because sometimes I want to take "our" side without looking at the facts in situations like these. Sometimes I feel like it's us against them. Sometimes I'm just as prejudiced as people I point fingers at. And that's not right. How can I look at white skin and make assumptions but not want assumptions made about me? That's not right.

I'M HOPELESS, because I've lived long enough to expect things like this to continue to happen. I'm not surprised and at some point my little children are going to inherit the weight of being a minority and all that it entails.

I'M HOPEFUL, because I know that while we still have race issues in America, we enjoy a much different normal than those of our parents and grandparents. I see it in my personal relationships with teammates, friends and mentors. And it's a beautiful thing.

I'M ENCOURAGED, because ultimately the problem is not a SKIN problem, it is a SIN problem. SIN is the reason we rebel against authority. SIN is the reason we abuse our authority. SIN is the reason we are racist, prejudiced and lie to cover for our own. SIN is the reason we riot, loot and burn. BUT I'M ENCOURAGED because God has provided a solution for sin through the his son Jesus and with it, a transformed heart and mind. One that's capable of looking past the outward and seeing what's truly important in every human being. The cure for the Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, Tamir Rice and Eric Garner tragedies is not education or exposure. It's the Gospel. So, finally, I'M ENCOURAGED because the Gospel gives mankind hope.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

wesw
Posts: 9646
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:24 am
Location: the eastern shore

Re: Ferguson Riot Watch...

Post by wesw »

nice.

User avatar
BoSoxGal
Posts: 19818
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:36 pm
Location: The Heart of Red Sox Nation

Re: Ferguson Riot Watch...

Post by BoSoxGal »

On Monday, Prosecutor Bob McCulloch announced that a grand jury had decided not to indict Darren Wilson, the officer who killed Michael Brown. But that decision was the result of a process that turned the purpose of a grand jury on its head.
Justice Antonin Scalia, in the 1992 Supreme Court case of United States v. Williams, explained what the role of a grand jury has been for hundreds of years.
It is the grand jury’s function not ‘to enquire … upon what foundation [the charge may be] denied,’ or otherwise to try the suspect’s defenses, but only to examine ‘upon what foundation [the charge] is made’ by the prosecutor. Respublica v. Shaffer, 1 Dall. 236 (O. T. Phila. 1788); see also F. Wharton, Criminal Pleading and Practice § 360, pp. 248-249 (8th ed. 1880).

As a consequence, neither in this country nor in England has the suspect under investigation by the grand jury ever been thought to have a right to testify or to have exculpatory evidence presented.
This passage was first highlighted by attorney Ian Samuel, a former clerk to Justice Scalia.
In contrast, McCulloch allowed Wilson to testify for hours before the grand jury and presented them with every scrap of exculpatory evidence available. In his press conference, McCulloch said that the grand jury did not indict because eyewitness testimony that established Wilson was acting in self-defense was contradicted by other exculpatory evidence. What McCulloch didn’t say is that he was under no obligation to present such evidence to the grand jury. The only reason one would present such evidence is to reduce the chances that the grand jury would indict Darren Wilson.
Compare Justice Scalia’s description of the role of the grand jury to what the prosecutors told the Ferguson grand jury before they started their deliberations:
And you must find probable cause to believe that Darren Wilson did not act in lawful self-defense and you must find probable cause to believe that Darren Wilson did not use lawful force in making an arrest. If you find those things, which is kind of like finding a negative, you cannot return an indictment on anything or true bill unless you find both of those things. Because both are complete defenses to any offense and they both have been raised in his, in the evidence.
As Justice Scalia explained the evidence to support these “complete defenses,” including Wilson’s testimony, was only included by McCulloch by ignoring how grand juries historically work.
There were several eyewitness accounts that strongly suggested Wilson did not act in self-defense. McCulloch could have, and his critics say should have, presented that evidence to the grand jury and likely returned an indictment in days, not months. It’s a low bar, which is why virtually all grand juries return indictments.
But McCulloch chose a different path.
The grand jury process shouldn't be abused by a prosecutor too gutless to take 100% responsibility for declining to file charges.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

User avatar
MajGenl.Meade
Posts: 21313
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:51 am
Location: Groot Brakrivier
Contact:

Re: Ferguson Riot Watch...

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

I picked three witness numbers at random - these were presented to the grand jury. So I call bullshit on this
There were several eyewitness accounts that strongly suggested Wilson did not act in self-defense. McCulloch could have, and his critics say should have, presented that evidence to the grand jury



Witness 12(1)
Stated that Brown was shot, turned toward the officer, "kind of bent down a little bit curled up, and the officer let out what three or four more shots to the guy and that's when he hit the ground"

Witness 12(2)
and he was curled up and he kind of like walking towards him a just little bit and he let go three four more shots and that's when he hit the ground

Witness 12(3)
but walkin', just took a couple steps back toward him... etc. When asked if Brown had his hands up, this witness took pains to explain that after Brown was hit the first time, he kept going out of sight - probably that's when he had his hands up - but then he came back to where he'd been hit and that's when the officer shot again.

Witness 16 said that Brown was kneeling down, hands up when the officer shot him

Witness 34 - Michael Brown's best friend - saw him being executed in the street etc.

What the hell are the above if not eyewitness testimony presented to the grand jury to the effect that officer Wilson was not acting in self-defense?
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

User avatar
Long Run
Posts: 6722
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: Ferguson Riot Watch...

Post by Long Run »

My gosh, is there no end to how far some people will go to hold on to their story? Scalia in the above case simply said that there is no obligation of prosecutor or the grand jury to ask for exculpatory evidence. It is fine if either or both seek it out as they present or review the case.

Here is the thing -- clearly there is injustice and racial discrimination that is worth examining and changing, and it sounds like that applies in Ferguson, MO (a place almost no one had ever heard of until this year).

This case was a loser for the prosecution from the get go. Anyone with any sense could see this result coming from day one, and that the media was hyping it as white officer shoots unarmed black teenager. Will people ever learn to not trust the media when it goes into sensationalism mode, whether its this story, ebola, etc.? They are just trying to make money and will spin a story in a way that sells. They've just become hucksters. And the huckstering has continued with this nonsense that it was a rigged grand jury process -- and they'll keep with this nonsense as long as there are enough consumers buying it.

User avatar
Joe Guy
Posts: 15196
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:40 pm
Location: Redweird City, California

Re: Ferguson Riot Watch...

Post by Joe Guy »

Just saw on local news that as of today 44 people have been arrested during the protests in Ferguson and 92 arrested in Oakland.

I thought for a minute that was odd but then I realized that's probably a normal day for Oakland... :-|

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: Ferguson Riot Watch...

Post by Lord Jim »

I thought for a minute that was odd but then I realized that's probably a normal day for Oakland... :-|
Not surprising... :roll:

The forensic, ballistic and DNA evidence all supports Officer William's version of the events...

Without regard to the "eye witness testimony" that was contradictory,(even amongst some "eye witnesses" who contradicted themselves...)

The Grand Jury absolutely reached the correct decision based on the evidence....
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Econoline
Posts: 9607
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:25 pm
Location: DeKalb, Illinois...out amidst the corn, soybeans, and Republicans

Re: Ferguson Riot Watch...

Post by Econoline »

:oops: Oops. Sorry. I just realized that BSG posted the exact same article, above....

Here's something different, then:
Image
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

liberty
Posts: 4869
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:31 pm
Location: Colonial Possession

Re: Ferguson Riot Watch...

Post by liberty »

Some time back I made a suggestion on how to improve the quality of law enforcement and no one liked it. So I ask all of you what should be done. And don’t say hire good people, that is current strategy.

And, I am not saying that the outcome in Ferguson was not the right one. If you can’t depend on evident what else is there. But I am sure somewhere in our country there are abuses of police and prosecutor power.
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

Post Reply