Politics versus the Environment.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Hahahaha, the rich liberals. Cape Cod has been getting redder and redder for the last decades, and its truly one of the most conservative areas of the Commonwealth.

Well of course - the difference between a communist and a conservative is that the latter owns property.

[wesw]

well in 1999 it was mostly libs doing the blocking of beach access, same in California, I believe. the only beach access points I found were in the old cape cod communities.

mis/disinformation was once the forte of the right. the tides have turned.

we are too stupid for the truth. just ask the whitehouse advisors....

[oldr_n_wsr]

I stand corrected.
Thanks for my learning moment today guin.
I do have to ask, when/where does the average citizen get info on proposed EPA regulations? I have never heard of a meeting of any kind of land managemt proposal the EPA has taken even in the town/county that is effected?

[Guinevere]

well in 1999 it was mostly libs doing the blocking of beach access, same in California, I believe. the only beach access points I found were in the old cape cod communities.

mis/disinformation was once the forte of the right. the tides have turned.

we are too stupid for the truth. just ask the whitehouse advisors....

I've lived and practiced law here since 1999 --- you're simply wrong, wes.

[BoSoxGal]

well in 1999 it was mostly libs doing the blocking of beach access, same in California, I believe. the only beach access points I found were in the old cape cod communities.

mis/disinformation was once the forte of the right. the tides have turned.

we are too stupid for the truth. just ask the whitehouse advisors....

Whoever owns the beach in Massachusetts, you have that right of access for fishing or fowling, so if you'd been in possession of your fishing rod and kit, you can't be made to leave private beach. Few people know this and many private beach owners will try to convince you otherwise but the law is on your side.

On the left coast where beaches are open to the public private property owners put up fake 'no parking' signs to try to keep the public off the beach. And no, they're not all rich liberals - plenty of rich conservatives, too.

[Guinevere]

I stand corrected.
Thanks for my learning moment today guin.
I do have to ask, when/where does the average citizen get info on proposed EPA regulations? I have never heard of a meeting of any kind of land managemt proposal the EPA has taken even in the town/county that is effected?

Older, I"m referring to the federal EPA, which doesn't manage land (but the NY State DEC is subject to its own publication rules).

EPA proposed regulations are published in the Federal Register, which are available in every public library that is a federal depository (there should be one in every community or county) and on-line at the Government Printing Office website (http://www.gpo.gov). Notices of public meetings are published both in the Federal Register, and in local newspapers, and on the web page of the regional office. Also note that regulatory changes don't happen very often -- so its not unusual that you haven't heard of the changes. Major EPA rule makings (the process to affect regulatory change) are few and far between.

Here are several years worth of public notices for EPA Region II (which covers NY) going back 5 years or so. None of them cover regulatory changes, but are other types of public notices required under the different regulatory and enforcement schemes:

http://www.epa.gov/Region2/public_notices/index.html


And here are the current public notices for NYSDEC: http://www.dec.ny.gov/enb/99709.html#reg2

[wesw]

im aware of the law. in Maryland, t the beach is public up to the mean high tide line as well. that doesn t stop landowners from threatening anyone who dares to access the beach, or from buying the properties and cutting off centuries old right of ways.

you are right tho, conservatives and liberals both practice these deceptions and takings...

[BoSoxGal]

im aware of the law. in Maryland, t the beach is public up to the mean high tide line as well. that doesn t stop landowners from threatening anyone who dares to access the beach, or from buying the properties and cutting off centuries old right of ways.

you are right tho, conservatives and liberals both practice these deceptions and takings...

That's not the law in Mass; the beach is NOT public up to the mean high tide line. But it IS accessible to the public for fishing and fowling.

If you want beach property, work harder and pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Whinger.

[wesw]

I m often wrong guin, as are you....

I just want access big sky. keep your beach house til mother nature washes it away....

[Guinevere]

Hahahaha, the rich liberals. Cape Cod has been getting redder and redder for the last decades, and its truly one of the most conservative areas of the Commonwealth.

Well of course - the difference between a communist and a conservative is that the latter owns property.

Nope. I own property and still more communist (socialist, actually), than conservative.

At my beach, there is limited public parking, but there are multiple modes of public access. We're pretty nice, too. Be nice to one of us "rich" neighboring landowners and we might even let you park in our driveways so you can come join us on the sand. My friends have an open invitation to park at my house to access my beach, and if my lot fills up, my neighbors would probably let you park at their houses, too.

[Big RR]

Actually, may favorite ploy is the one I saw in Waikiki; in Hawaii the beaches are all public, but the owners may restrict access through their property (so if you don't look like you belong in the hotel, you will be denied access). On Waikiki there is (so far as I know) one public access point at one end, and legally anyone can then walk along the beach and sit down, sunbather, etc. at any point (even if it is in front of a hotel). The hotels try to discourage this migration by building walls along the edge of their property that extend far in the water--if one wants to enter the property, depending on the tide level, one might have to wade into deep water or swim. Since I saw this along the entire beach, I assume it is legal, but it's the only place I saw these walls.

[wesw]

thanks guin. I prefer to piss off the assholes tho....

there is a place here called roaring point, my favorite place actually. luckily the state bought most of it before it was developed.

down the beach from this point is a local harbor, next to which is the house on the hill. there are small jetties on either side of this harbor, which I fish from. now the house on the hill had a new owner and he posted that beach and jetty with no trespassing signs.

some black guys on the beach told me that we couldn t fish there anymore. I laughed and my son and I headed for the jetty, never straying above the high tide line.

sure enough, the guy came out and claimed we were on his land. I asked when he had purchased the jetty from the county. stated that the jetty was public property and he could call the police if he wanted, but I was fishing.

a bit of hemming and hawing later, he said, "i don t mind if you guys fish here" then he looked at the black guys on the beach and said something about keeping the troublemakers out.

it was good that my son got to see that. I should have told the other fisherman that the jetty was open for fishing but I m not a saint.... I m a fisherman!

I ve had a private jetty for about 15 yrs now!!!!

[oldr_n_wsr]

Another lesson learned. Thanks guin
I know in NC, people can walk between ocean front owners property to access the beach along with the public access area. This allows more parking along the streets behind all the ocean front houses as hte public access area has limited parking spots. Too bad this is not the case in the hamptons.

We do have jonses beach and robert moses beaches for public, but the hamptons are pretty much shut off.

On the north shore there is a fight going on for fed money for repair of the road in Ashoroken. Sandy washed the road away leading to the pennisula. The road was repaired but the village wants fed money to build dunes and such to keep it from washing away. The feds will give them the money for it but they have to provide "adequate" public access to the beaches on either side of the road. Ashoroken said no problem and came back with the proposal for about 5 parking spots. Feds said "try again".

ETA
I am not a beach person so very little of this affects me. But it seems that private ownership of a beach (from dune to water) is somehow wrong. Especially when tax money is spent after each storm to replenish the beach in front of these houses.