two things no longer taught in our local schools
the history of the founding of America and her govt
the holocaust
but at least we have the common core crap, which is worse than useless.
we don t need no stinking history
Re: we don t need no stinking history
Have you actually researched this? Or are you just making things up again?
yrs,
rubato
yrs,
rubato
Re: we don t need no stinking history
Because that would be infringing on rubatos territory.....
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
Re: we don t need no stinking history
I have a 12 yr old daughter. I made her watch a bit of a documentary a few days ago. now she knows what people are capable of. she was unaware of the holocaust. difficult but necessary.
Re: we don t need no stinking history
now to begin explaining that our founders were more than a bunch of white guys with slaves.....
actually, educating her about this nation is an ongoing project. the holocaust was totally new to her
actually, educating her about this nation is an ongoing project. the holocaust was totally new to her
Re: we don t need no stinking history
My children are now in their early 20s and the school subjects covered both of those topics in pretty significant detail, in elementary, middle, and high school. Is there something in particular about both of those subjects that you think is being ignored, or do you maintain that they are just not mentioned at all? If the latter, I would think the local school system might matter quite a bit.
As for your post about white guys with slaves, it was mentioned quite a bit, as was the voting down of the part of the declaration of independence dealing with slavery. At least one (if not both) did watch that Jefferson in Paris movie which dealt with the relationship between Jefferson and Sally Hemmings relationship.
As for your post about white guys with slaves, it was mentioned quite a bit, as was the voting down of the part of the declaration of independence dealing with slavery. At least one (if not both) did watch that Jefferson in Paris movie which dealt with the relationship between Jefferson and Sally Hemmings relationship.
Re: we don t need no stinking history
things have changed RR. truth, its not pc anymore.
Re: we don t need no stinking history
Perhaps, but since local school boards have a great deal of control over curriculum, I do think this may vary from school system to school system. For example, we have a fairly large jewish population in my town that I don't think would stand for ignoring the holocaust, and rightfully so IMHO. so I'll throw it out to those who have kids in school now--is Wes right based on what you have seen?
As for things not being PC, once thing I was glad out school taught was much more about the civil war than I ever learned. For example, I recall learning that the Emancipation Proclamation ended slavery in the US; it didn't, slavery was purportedly ended in the rebellious states (which of course were not under Lincoln's control), but not in the union states, and many slaves were legally held in Union states throughout the civil war until the 13th amendment was passed at the end of the civil war. That always annoyed me when I found out how I had been misled, and I was glad to see the accurate record reflected.
As for things not being PC, once thing I was glad out school taught was much more about the civil war than I ever learned. For example, I recall learning that the Emancipation Proclamation ended slavery in the US; it didn't, slavery was purportedly ended in the rebellious states (which of course were not under Lincoln's control), but not in the union states, and many slaves were legally held in Union states throughout the civil war until the 13th amendment was passed at the end of the civil war. That always annoyed me when I found out how I had been misled, and I was glad to see the accurate record reflected.
Re: we don t need no stinking history
I agree about the local variations.
now to common core.
have any of you examined the common core math methods? they are so convoluted as to be totally ridiculous. I understand that some kids may only be able to learn by methods other than standard, and they should be taught that way. my son is dyslexic and I just did not understand how to teach him. he was helped by some great teachers in Plymouth MA, at a school the size of a shoebox, and that continued when we came home. I am very thankful that he was able to shine academically and now, in life. teaching the whole class that way would have been silly tho.
now to common core.
have any of you examined the common core math methods? they are so convoluted as to be totally ridiculous. I understand that some kids may only be able to learn by methods other than standard, and they should be taught that way. my son is dyslexic and I just did not understand how to teach him. he was helped by some great teachers in Plymouth MA, at a school the size of a shoebox, and that continued when we came home. I am very thankful that he was able to shine academically and now, in life. teaching the whole class that way would have been silly tho.
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Sue U
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Re: we don t need no stinking history
You either have no idea what Common Core is, or no idea what is taught in Maryland schools, or perhaps both.
The Maryland Common Core program specifically includes Holocaust education as part of the middle-school curriculum in, for example, the "Overcoming Societal Challenges" unit of English Language Arts. (I only did one google search, but you could probably find similar units in the history and social studies curricula.)
Common Core State Standards does not dictate whether or not genocide or US history are taught in your local school, or what particular aspects are or aren't included. My school district uses Common Core, and Holocaust/genocide education has been a mandatory part of the curriculum for decades (even before it was made mandatory for all districts by state statute in 1994). Your school district should have its curricula and standards publicly available -- probably on the intertubes -- and you should look at them before bitching about what's "not being taught."
The Maryland Common Core program specifically includes Holocaust education as part of the middle-school curriculum in, for example, the "Overcoming Societal Challenges" unit of English Language Arts. (I only did one google search, but you could probably find similar units in the history and social studies curricula.)
Common Core State Standards does not dictate whether or not genocide or US history are taught in your local school, or what particular aspects are or aren't included. My school district uses Common Core, and Holocaust/genocide education has been a mandatory part of the curriculum for decades (even before it was made mandatory for all districts by state statute in 1994). Your school district should have its curricula and standards publicly available -- probably on the intertubes -- and you should look at them before bitching about what's "not being taught."
Last edited by Sue U on Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
GAH!
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Econoline
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Re: we don t need no stinking history
Exactly right.Big RR wrote:Perhaps, but since local school boards have a great deal of control over curriculum, I do think this may vary from school system to school system.
One might even think that there ought to be some, oh, I dunno...common standards? Y'know...so that all students in the same grade would wind up with the same core knowledge...? (That way, maybe if wesw's kids moved into Big RR's town they would know they were prepared to learn without having to do a lot of catching up...)
Just a thought...
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
— God @The Tweet of God
— God @The Tweet of God
Re: we don t need no stinking history
try checking Delaware. where I live.
...and I said specifically common core Math.
the things about the holocaust I mentioned had nothing to do with common core. she has one more year in middle school after this year, so maybe they will get to it.
.... I say again, check out the common core math teaching methods for middle school
...and I said specifically common core Math.
the things about the holocaust I mentioned had nothing to do with common core. she has one more year in middle school after this year, so maybe they will get to it.
.... I say again, check out the common core math teaching methods for middle school
Re: we don t need no stinking history
...you really need to see the dead bodies stacked like cord wood, and the emaciated survivors to get the point
Re: we don t need no stinking history
Wes when Tati was 12, she was in the 7th grade, and that's when they first covered The Holocaust in her school, (a private Catholic School)
They built the instruction around The Diary Of Anne Frank, which the kids read and wrote essays on. (As I recall, that's the way I was introduced to it too, back Paleolithic Age.) It stimulated a lot of questions from her and a lot of discussion in our house.
Now she's a Sophmore, and later this year her World History Class will be having a more in depth segment on it, (including watching Schindler's List)
It's telling the kind of questions a kid will ask when first exposed to something like this. One of Tati's first questions was, "Why would anybody hate somebody else just because of their religion?"
Why indeed...
Of course it's more complex then that, but those kinds of questions are yet more proof that bigotry is a learned behavior...
They built the instruction around The Diary Of Anne Frank, which the kids read and wrote essays on. (As I recall, that's the way I was introduced to it too, back Paleolithic Age.) It stimulated a lot of questions from her and a lot of discussion in our house.
Now she's a Sophmore, and later this year her World History Class will be having a more in depth segment on it, (including watching Schindler's List)
It's telling the kind of questions a kid will ask when first exposed to something like this. One of Tati's first questions was, "Why would anybody hate somebody else just because of their religion?"
Why indeed...
Of course it's more complex then that, but those kinds of questions are yet more proof that bigotry is a learned behavior...
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Sue U
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Re: we don t need no stinking history
I have a 12-year-old daughter, too. Her school uses Common Core. As far as I can tell, the biggest change in teaching math is that there is now a focus on getting students to understand and master application of the mathematical principles and concepts rather than just rote memorization. My daughter, who had seriously struggled with math in elementary school, now considers it her favorite subject (even though it's still not one in which she performs best), and recently told one of her teachers that she is thinking about becoming a math teacher herself.
I have an older son who has a tremendously advanced facility with math, but who considers the subject "useless." I am actually trying to interest him in a career in some aspect of applied mathematics because his talent is so great (from what I can see) it would be a shame not to use it.
I have an older son who has a tremendously advanced facility with math, but who considers the subject "useless." I am actually trying to interest him in a career in some aspect of applied mathematics because his talent is so great (from what I can see) it would be a shame not to use it.
GAH!
Re: we don t need no stinking history
Econoline--IMHO common standards/core knowledge are good if they are a starting point and not a detailed curriculum; there is not and should not be a one size fits all educational curriculum, although I do think setting bare minimums in what should be covered makes sense. The rest can be added/adjusted depending on the teachers, local communities, and students.
Wes--if I get a chance, I'll look at those math standards, but I don't know all that much about the Common Core program.
Wes--if I get a chance, I'll look at those math standards, but I don't know all that much about the Common Core program.
Re: we don t need no stinking history
sue, I come from a family full of teachers. my sister was once teacher of the year for seventh grade, she now teaches students with learning difficulties in upper Delaware and is married the the superintendent of a large school district in upper Delaware
jim, I think 12 is about the right age for the holocaust. i was taught about it a bit earlier, as I said, maybe they will get to it. I was taught about our founding a bit earlier also, 5th and 6th grade. I think 12 is a bit late for that.
sue, I too considered math useless, I never bothered with trig or calculus, it just bored me to tears. chaos theory is interesting but you need to wade thru the other stuff to get to it.
I did regret it later when fabricating complex round shapes for structural steel applications, but oh well. pi r squared, 2 pi r, and a squared plus b squared equals c squared were enough to get by with.
I was good at math but I just hated the process, plus chemistry was the first class I actually had to study for, that (italics) was not gonna happen. so I just read my literature book instead. you can t fit a square peg in a round hole without causing some damage.
jim, I think 12 is about the right age for the holocaust. i was taught about it a bit earlier, as I said, maybe they will get to it. I was taught about our founding a bit earlier also, 5th and 6th grade. I think 12 is a bit late for that.
sue, I too considered math useless, I never bothered with trig or calculus, it just bored me to tears. chaos theory is interesting but you need to wade thru the other stuff to get to it.
I did regret it later when fabricating complex round shapes for structural steel applications, but oh well. pi r squared, 2 pi r, and a squared plus b squared equals c squared were enough to get by with.
I was good at math but I just hated the process, plus chemistry was the first class I actually had to study for, that (italics) was not gonna happen. so I just read my literature book instead. you can t fit a square peg in a round hole without causing some damage.
Re: we don t need no stinking history
RR check out the teaching methods more than the curriculum for middle school math. all the hub bub is not for nothing...
Re: we don t need no stinking history
sue, I think its more than that. thank god my daughter learned multiplication and division before common core was instituted
to be clear, I am not condemning the entire common core program, just the math, which I believe teaches to the lowest common denominator
to be clear, I am not condemning the entire common core program, just the math, which I believe teaches to the lowest common denominator
Re: we don t need no stinking history
Wes, I also think it's worth pointing out that if you feel the instruction your daughter is getting is inadequate in some area, there's nothing preventing parents from augmenting that instruction...
Around our house, education certainly does not begin and end at the school house door...
Around our house, education certainly does not begin and end at the school house door...
I agree with you on that, both of my kids started learning about it before they started school. (Around The 4th of July is a great time to have some teaching moments about it; even for young kids.)I was taught about our founding a bit earlier also, 5th and 6th grade. I think 12 is a bit late for that.