we don t need no stinking history

[wesw]

jim, I agree, and I do my share too. especially about our nations ideas and ideals. but crap, they should at least get the math right.

my daughter has no problem finding the correct answers to the problems, but even she sees the ridiculousness of the methods she is forced to follow. I just teach her the proper way when, the common core is too frustrating. her mom is strong in math, and has passed many college courses in maths, she pulls her hair out too

[Guinevere]

I think 12 is just about right to get into the holocaust. These are still kids, let them be kids a little while longer.

And LJ is right - I was thinking the exact same thing. School is all well and good, but there are so many opportunities to give kids supplemental instruction at home. My parents took us all over the place -- between summers in New England and living in Maryland, I don't think there was one major historical site we missed -- and it definitely helped in school.

One of the reasons I took the boys to Plymouth this summer was to have them visualize and experience some of what they learned and will continue to learn at school. Next up on our historical tour is the John Adams houses in Braintree and Quincy, and the Freedom Trail.

[wesw]

my girl had a field trip to philly this year, her mom was a chaperone. they went to the ben franklin center or whatever it was, but saw none of the historic sights, and learned no history. it was just silly fun for the most part

[Big RR]

If I recall correctly the Ben Franklin Institute is a science museum aimed toward schoolchildren; you're right that it doesn't deal with history, but it might be invaluable to teaching some scientific principles. One exhibit I recall they had was a walk through mockup of a human heart showing the atria, ventricles, valves, etc. Learning science is valuable too, and what might seem to be "silly fun" might well be learning as well.

[wesw]

I agree rr. but I was told that they spent like 8 hrs at the institute, and everyone was bored stiff by the time they left. plenty of time for both I thought

[MajGenl.Meade]

IIRC, it was New York that decided to start history in 1750. I suppose there must come a time when we leave a lot of the past behind but it seems a pity not to learn of the development of civilization, whether in the east or the west. Perhaps it's covered in Social Studies or maybe that's where history goes anyway.

[Sue U]

If I recall correctly the Ben Franklin Institute is a science museum aimed toward schoolchildren; you're right that it doesn't deal with history, but it might be invaluable to teaching some scientific principles. One exhibit I recall they had was a walk through mockup of a human heart showing the atria, ventricles, valves, etc. Learning science is valuable too, and what might seem to be "silly fun" might well be learning as well.

I have been a member of the Franklin Institute off and on since childhood; my own kids adore it (as well as the Academy of Natural Sciences next door, affectionately known as "the dinosaur museum" although it has so much more). The Franklin Institute actually has a significant history component to many of its exhibits, particularly the development of science from colonial times to the present. (It had a big Pompeii exhibition come through last year, too.) It has a great planetarium as well as an IMAX theater, and tons and tons of interactive exhibits that give kids hands-on experience with scientific principles. It is a tremendous place to learn about all kinds of science in a fun way. School field trips are okay, but don't really do it justice because they're more about herding masses of children rather than exploring and investigating. You should take your daughter there yourself and spend a full day poking around -- there's always a lot of cool stuff there.

The giant heart is beloved by generations of Philadelphians. A few years ago they were considering taking it out to make way for other newer exhibits, but there was so much of an outcry from the public that they kept it just as it was. (I make it a point to walk through it every time I go -- it never gets old.)

[wesw]

yeah, I admire ben franklin very much. his autobiography is a must read. unfortunately I doubt that very many people could read it without a modern translation.

[Big RR]

Wes--I read it years ago and, as I recall, the language was not that archaic--nothing that couldn't be found in a good dictionary. But it was a good read.

[wesw]

well I didn t mean most people here....

many of the words had different meanings then, and franklin s writing was a bit more archaic than was that of most of his contemporaries, I think. I enjoyed trying to figure out the old meanings from context, without a dictionary.... there were 2 or 3 that I just couldn t figure out tho, iirc

[oldr_n_wsr]

From some of the common core math exam questions I read about, wesw has a point.I don't know what kinds of problems students were having with the old math (not to be confused with the old math that was taught back when I was in grammar school) but the way CC wants kids to come up with answer is mind boggling. I took many advanced math courses and the solutions I saw in CC were...........lets say, not easy to follow.
Even my sister in law, now a principle but taught for 20 years says she is glad her kids and my kids are out of school.

I have to ask her if she can get me a math text book the teaches common core so I can learn more and make a more informed judgement.

[BoSoxGal]

I'm a bit on the fence about Common Core. I believe in the principle (standards to which all children, regardless of geographic location, should be educated) absolutely, but I've seen some wacky examples of math process alleged to be tied to CC - but I saw them on the interwebs, so it could have been anti-CC propaganda.

I tend to believe in teachers, and most of my friends who are teachers - including some who teach science - are supporters of CC.

I attended grade school in what was at the time one of the best school systems in the country, and still ranks very highly - yes, Massachusetts!

In addition to the history I received at home, we were already talking about early American history, Paul Revere's midnight ride, etc. when I was in 2nd or 3rd grade. We had field trips to Plimoth Plantation, toured the Mayflower II, etc. in those very early grades and I found it all very fascinating. We also went to the Boston Museum of Science several times - both in school and with my family - and I loved that place. I'm assuming it's still a cool place for kids; certainly hope so!

Diary of Anne Frank was a 6th grade experience for me, but by then I was in the Arizona school system which sucked terribly by comparison to Massachusetts. Despite being in honors-level history courses, I don't recall getting very good education in US history post-civil war - most of that I learned from my father, who was a history buff and always watching documentaries on PBS, etc.

[wesw]

I m telling you what I saw come home with my own eyes big sky. the math methods for middle school are indescribably convoluted.

[Sue U]

I m telling you what I saw come home with my own eyes big sky. the math methods for middle school are indescribably convoluted.

Yes, and I help my daughter with her math homework, taught to the Common Core standard, and it's pretty straightforward stuff. The problem (if any) may be with your local school district/math teacher, not Common Core.

ETA:

Here are the dreaded CC Math Standards from my daughter's school website; please tell me what's so "indescribably convoluted":

Math Standards

Common Core State Standards for
MATHEMATICS

7th Grade

Ratios and Proportional Relationships

• Analyze proportional relationships and use them to solve real-world and mathematical problems.

The Number System

• Apply and extend previous understandings of operations with fractions to add, subtract, multiply, and divide rational numbers.

Expressions and Equations

• Use properties of operations to generate equivalent expressions.

• Solve real-life and mathematical problems using numerical and algebraic expressions and equations.

Geometry

• Draw, construct and describe geometrical figures and describe the relationships between them.

• Solve real-life and mathematical problems involving angle measure, area, surface area, and volume.

Statistics and Probability

• Use random sampling to draw inferences about a population.

• Draw informal comparative inferences about two populations.

• Investigate chance processes and develop, use, and evaluate probability models

[wesw]

well I disagree sue. and I urge you all to judge for your selves

[Sue U]

Here's a link to 7th Grade math worksheets at one of our local middle schools. Please identify what is being made "indescribably convoluted" as a result of Common Core standards.

[wesw]

any chance you are cherry picking?

check out the problem solving methods required, for things as simple as long division and multiplication from other sources besides sue.

[Crackpot]

From my understanding the "new math" isn't new at all. In fact I have some "new math" flash cards here from 1964. It met the same pushback back then and was eventually dropped the Problem then and probably still will be now is the absolute failure of educators to explain the program to parents who were never taught the new method. The major problem being that the new math seems counterintuitive until you start adapting the methods learned at the start to the types of maths where people start losing the plot.

[Sue U]

any chance you are cherry picking?

check out the problem solving methods required, for things as simple as long division and multiplication from other sources besides sue.

I am not "cherry-picking" anything; I simply went to an actual middle school math department website showing current materials. I have thus directed you to evidence that contradicts your assertion. You are free to peruse that and any other materials you wish. You have yet to provide anything other than your own say-so to support your claim.

You keeping urging people to "check out" your claim. I did. So far, it is baseless. If you have something to back it up, now (actually, about 5 or 10 posts ago) would be the time to show it.

[wesw]

you seem to have your mind made up from your first post sue, any chance that you have a dog in this fight?

also, while I m at it, you dismissed everything I asserted as "bitching" in your first post. I believe I ve responded reasonable and without resorting to insult.

as you know, if you ve observed my posting history, I prefer to make my assertions and beliefs known in my own words, and rely on the rest of you to decide for yourselves whether I am full of crap or not. ridiculously slanted graphs and charts and anecdotal examples carry little weight with me, and are easily manipulated, so I don t use them or rely on them when presented by others.

the world is at our fingertips these days, so I urge people to do their own research if the topic is important to them.

what is happening in MA is not necessarily happening in the rest of the nation