Terrorist Attack In Paris

[Big RR]

Meade--OK, if I get a chance I will try to find some bible verses that are used to promote this belief, but for starters, I think Revelation says says (after the seventh trumpet) The kingdom of this world is become the kingdom of our god and of his Christ, showing the longing for a unified kingdom under god/christ. I also recall one of Paul's letters stating that the day shall come when every knee shall bow to Christ.

I agree not all christians take these statements literally, but one need only look at the comic books the evanglicals hand out on the street to see that some do.

[Gob]

Gob--there are all kinds of idiots, but I never met one yet who profess the belief you suggest Gob.

From another forum I infest;

on 22:42 Wed
In reply to Ridge:

Gonna throw my two pence to the wind, whether or not anyone reads it.

The attack today was nothing to do with anyone's religion, or anyone's right to be offended. It's about dividing communities further, spreading more hatred and misunderstanding, creating more extremism on both sides. The only way to rise above it is through tolerance.

[wesw]

RR, I think that you find that the bible is completely different than what many Christians believe.

i was around Christians my whole life, but had no idea what jesus actually taught until i read it

[MajGenl.Meade]

Don't bother with the verses, BIg RR (said not unkindly). First, find me the group(s) you are referring to who do all this "use" to promote that belief and then list all the examples of their taking hostages, bombing buildings, people etc. to make that come about.

Paul: the time will come when every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that he is Lord. Indeed - everyone dies; then everyone faces judgment and all will bow and confess etc.

The Revelation of St John - a dubious sort of book IMO - is a series of apocalyptic visions. Weird, huh? At the end of days, there will be a new Earth and a new Jerusalem and (for that matter) a new Heaven. The rule of Christ on earth etc. Again, to avoid pre-trib, post-trib, mid-trib foolish controversies (2Tim2) as wesw suggests, please list the terrorist attacks committed by people who believe in that stuff.

[Big RR]

Meade--to answer you first question, I will say I am in no way asserting that; all I am saying is that there are some who call themselves christians that do look forward to the uniting of the world in a single kingdom with god /christ as the head, much as islamics want to untie the world under the rule of the prophet. FWIW, I don't think the Koran promotes those action either, even though some jerks do (like the recent assholes in Paris).

last question, the same answer. Face it, much blood has been shed in the name of Christ as well throughout history, even if it has been less in recent times; although the anti-jewish pogroms and holocaust were not that long ago, and Scott Roeder killed in the name of Christ much more recently in the US. Now before you disagree, let me say I don't think these actions were Christian either, nor do I think the actions of the jerks in Paris and their ilk are Islamic.

wes--no disagreement there, but we are talking about actions committed in the name of a religion, and the beliefs of some who consider themselves to be part of it, and how easily manipulated some are because of those beliefs.

[MajGenl.Meade]

To repeat Maoself:

A certain thinker once said: Many people think it impossible for guerrillas to exist for long in the enemy's rear. Such a belief reveals lack of comprehension of the relationship that should exist between the people and the troops. The former may be likened to water the latter to the fish who inhabit it. How may it be said that these two cannot exist together?

He could have added, the latter required the former in order to exist, and the former support and nourish the latter.

Scott Roeder - aberrant individual. Islamic terrorism - endemic and inherent; immanent and transcendent in the entirety of the population. Did you see the applause for 9/11? Not at all unusual...

[wesw]

i m going to have to read the Koran because i think that muhammed does condone the spreading of islam s domination thru violence and that deceit is okay when dealing with infidels, and the killing of apostates. i believe is does also say that other people of the book (Christians and jews) may live, if they submit to muslim rule and a life as second class citizens.

i do know that jesus wanted to spread the good news thru out the world, but you had to choose to follow him and bow to the father of your own accord, he wanted to spread the message, it was up to you after that. free will and all that. he loved the sinners and wished to help them. only the sick need a doctor and all that

[BoSoxGal]

I think the point is that Christianity does share a tenet with Islam in that it does ultimately require death or conversion; on the day you Christians look forward to as paradise, we non believers will be forced to perish or convert.

It's as literal as the call to convert or die in the Koran, no?

But the Pope says we can be redeemed, we non believers - so these things are subject to change.

Clearly not many of the 2 billion (?) Muslims in this world actually adhere to the tenet to convert or vanquish, or we'd have daily blood baths.

Wouldn't we?

[wesw]

yeah, there was one convenience store here where the fellows that ran it were laughing about the attacks that day, a local cop thru his coffee in their face. i think he got fired.

there was another one where the guys were laughing around here, in a really rough neighborhood, the brothers torched that place.

i did notice a great coming together after that, grown men, black and white, held the door for each other even if they had to pause to do it. that has lasted and gives me great hope. it actually had a bit of resurgence after ferguson, which also gives me hope.

[BoSoxGal]

yeah, there was one convenience store here where the fellows that ran it were laughing about the attacks that day, a local cop thru his coffee in their face. i think he got fired.

there was another one where the guys were laughing around here, in a really rough neighborhood, the brothers torched that place.

i did notice a great coming together after that, grown men, black and white, held the door for each other even if they had to pause to do it. that has lasted and gives me great hope. it actually had a bit of resurgence after ferguson, which also gives me hope.

That happened and it didn't make CNN/FOX/MSNBC?

Did you see this incident yourself?

Seems strange it wouldn't make the news.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I think the point is that Christianity does share a tenet with Islam in that it does ultimately require death or conversion; on the day you Christians look forward to as paradise, we non believers will be forced to perish or convert.

Not quite. Here on earth, when the courtroom judge says "guilty" or "not guilty" all alike will admit that he/she is the judge and bow to his or her decision. But the guilty can't "convert" to not guilty by apologizing. (Sentence might be reduced though - here).

So with God. Everybody gets to die once here on earth. After that, there is no "death or convert" option - the choice was made before the death part. But the non-believers will at that point admit that God is God and they've been wrong all along.

The good news is that on the day we Christians look forward to as paradise, we won't feel bad about it.

[wesw]

lol, i saw that burnt out store and heard about the other one from a fellow who saw it. in fact i took a special trip to see that store

lawyers.....

[RayThom]

... four "well trained" Al-Qaeda Muslim soldiers were not able to kill as efficiently as one psychotic, home grown, lone wolf, Christian, at Sandy Hook. Sadly, we're still #1 when it comes to terrorism. I wonder if Adam Lanza had an inspirational bible passage that helped him justify his actions?

God bless America... we need it here the most.

"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo C. Possum

[wesw]

i doubt it made even the local papers, but both happened in Salisbury MD , The daily Times, or WBOC 16 news would have been the most likely to cover it, if you think i m lying.

guilty until proven innocent i guess...

prosecuters ....


oh and ray thom, i can t even say it as it is too nasty and would hurt me more than you anyway....

[MajGenl.Meade]

Assuming you had a point, what is it? That insane USians are better marksmen than Moslems? The death figures tend to prove you wrong.

The promotion of his religious (claimed) affiliation was not the motivating, guiding or "excusing" factor for the Sandy Hook chap. His religion, if he had one, condemns his actions in no uncertain terms. (cf Jesus, the Christ).

The hundreds upon hundreds of Islamic acts of terror against the infidel and against their own people are justified by an appeal to and in support and the name of their faith.

Their fellow Islamists applaud their filthy acts and their communities support them, even if only by silent camouflage. Philosophy from cartoons is all very well; but the enemy is meeting 'us' and killing 'us' everywhere. And it's not being done in the name of Christ.

Where's all the media coverage for Christians being killed throughout the world by Moslems? Sadly, it's not as sexy as gunmen in Paris.

Sheikh Rage said: “We are uncompromising in our beliefs, relentless in our pursuit, ruthless against the disbelievers…”

“Muhammad is Allah’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.” — Qur’an 48:29

“Al-Shabaab Vows to Be ‘Ruthless Against Disbelievers’ as U.S. ‘Barely Recognizes’ Christian Eradication in Iraq,” by Bridget Johnson, PJ Tatler, December 2, 2014:

As quarry workers slept early Tuesday morning in tents by their worksite outside Mandera, a Kenyan border city tucked between Ethiopia and Somalia, Al-Shabaab gunmen attacked.

The Muslims were reportedly separated from the non-Muslims, who were then murdered by gunshots at close range or beheading. Thirty-six men were killed.

The Kenyan government said Tuesday that there was no proof Al-Shabaab was exclusively targeting the Christians.

“We cannot say the Christians are the ones mostly targeted because even in the past, Muslims have been killed, and as we talk, everyone is worried,” North Eastern Regional Police Commander Patrick Lumumba said, according to Kenya’s Daily Nation newspaper. “The terrorists have no tribe or religion. The people can rest assured that these attacks are not directed at any certain tribe or religion.”

But Al-Shabaab’s media arm posted a statement saying the attack on Christian “crusaders” was in response to Kenya’s “occupation of Muslim lands” and “ongoing atrocities” toward Muslims in Somalia “as well as the continued suffering of Muslims in Mombasa.”

“As Kenya persists in its occupation of Muslim lands, kills innocent Muslims, transgresses upon their sanctities and throws them into prisons, we, Harakat Al-Shabaab al-Mujahideen, will persist to defend our land and our people from their aggression,” said Al-Shabaab spokesman Sheikh Ali Mohamud Rage. “We are uncompromising in our beliefs, relentless in our pursuit, ruthless against the disbelievers and we will do whatever necessary to defend our Muslim brethren suffering from Kenya’s aggression.”…

[wesw]

try taking your bible to Saudi Arabia for a theological discussion....

[BoSoxGal]

Meade, you aren't the authority on Christian belief - but thanks for your interpretation.

And yes, the fact that many Christians basically feel like it's okay to dismiss billions of people because they don't believe in Jesus Christ is to me as reprehensible as the tenet in Islam.

I shudder to consider the 'loving' God you folks worship.

[wesw]

don t even bother meade. it s like casting pearls before swine. just walk away from her and brush the dust from your feet as you go...

[MajGenl.Meade]

What a poor job I did then! And wesw's advice perhaps epitomizes some other aspects of what angers people in these kinds of discussions.

You are correct that I'm not the authority on Christian belief. That would be the Word of God in the Bible - the only source of authoritative information on Christ and Christian belief. It's only necessary to read - not interpret - to understand that people make a choice to believe or not believe (hyper Calvinists don't believe that but then that's their choice ).

I'm sure that's what you and I both believe - that we have that choice. Wouldn't you say that if there IS a God, then you should have the right and responsibility to make that choice, just as you do if there ISN'T?

You are correct. It's not OK for Christians to "dismiss" billions of people etc. I hope that doesn't happen. It is the very opposite of the Christian message which starts with all people having value and God loves every one. It's s the impetus for giving the 'good news' of available salvation to all of mankind - although that's been done in reprehensible ways more often than ever it should have been.

It pains me to think that my parents, unbelievers both (AFAIK) may not experience eternal life with God. I hope that God deals with that other than the way that His word tells us He does. But I don't believe that's the case, sadly. They made their choices. Perhaps this is where I wasn't clear? In Heaven, as the Bible teaches, there is no grief, no sadness - I suppose therefore that I won't be aware that they are not there. It would be awful if people in heaven grieved eternally for those who chose to be lost. I wasn't speaking of earth - this life.

I shudder to think of the pointless world inhabited by non-believers (and me, once), without God and without hope. I am now convinced that the guilty will be punished; that the innocents they torture and kill have not gone to death eternal but to life eternal. I'd hate to live my life thinking that wasn't the case - how bleak! But then I am equally convinced that the worse offender has as much chance of salvation as anyone and that no one is worthless or beyond hope of it.

[wesw]

you are right meade. the hatefulness of her post swayed me from goodness and good sense. I am ashamed. it was really ray thom s post that set me off anyway....