Devil and the deep blue sea

[wesw]

I don t know if belichek and/or brady are telling the truth or not, but if I was their lawyer I would be very happy with their press conferences.

[oldr_n_wsr]

PPS - no one in the NFL has yet to speak w Tom.

Which speaks volumes for the NFL's cluelessness. You would think the NFL would be all over this right from the start (aka monday morning).
Unless they are purposely dragging their feet so as to not come to any kind of conclusion until after the SB. Don't want to have to make any kind of punishment (if one is warranted) on BB or TB or anyone else on the Pats which might diminish the SB by them no playing/being there on the sidelines.

Amen. Now will all you sore losers and haters get the fuck over it.

As one of the Colts said about this, "they could have played with a bar of soap and they would have won."

[Guinevere]

So now the guy who newspaper reports say tarted it all, claims he didn't notice anything wrong. What a load of bs, this all is. Nothing more than an unfounded conspiracy to try to take down/distract the Pats.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/ ... nt=event25

Indianapolis Colts linebacker D’Qwell Jackson says he noticed nothing wrong with the football he intercepted against the Patriots in Sunday’s AFC Championship game.

Talking after his Pro Bowl team practiced at Luke Air Force Base on Thursday, he said he merely wanted to keep the ball as a souvenir.

He took it to the sideline and said he hasn’t seen it since.

The normal procedure, he said, is for the ball to go to the equipment staff and wind up in the player’s locker on Monday.

Jackson said he doesn’t handle the ball enough to know whether it was properly inflated or not.

Initial reports claimed Jackson initiated Deflategate by handing the ball to an equipment manager and telling him it was underinflated, setting off a chain reaction that led to Colts general manager Ryan Grigson contacting the NFL’s director of field operations.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Well that is interesting. So how did this all start?
The balls were found to be underinflated.
Why did the refs check them?

[Lord Jim]

This is absolutely not "a load of BS".

The balls were tested to be properly inflated, they went to the Patriots sideline, and after the game 11 out of 12 of them were found to be seriously under inflated. These are established, undisputed facts. (Not even Belichick or Brady disputes them. If there was any question about whether or not this was true, Belichick would certainly have said so. He went in front of the media yesterday to say he didn't know how it happened, not to claim that it didn't.)

Nor does one have to be a "sore loser" (I couldn't have cared less who won between the Patriots and the Colts) or a "hater" (I've never hah any particular animosity towards the Patriots; in fact as I mentioned, before this scandal erupted I was inclined to prefer them to the Seahawks. As an AFC team in the Northeast, they don't generally even figure on my football radar screen.) to see that this clearly stinks to high heaven.

All that's required is that one look at this through something other than a seriously strong pair of fan goggles to realize that.

What happened is known. The unknown now is "who specifically did it". (And possibly who specifically ordered it done.)

The only thing that is publicly known about the "who" of this is that they had to be someone associated with the Patriots, since the "what" had to have taken place while the balls were sitting in a location where only people approved by the Patriots had access.

[MajGenl.Meade]

So now the guy who newspaper reports say tarted it all, claims he didn't notice anything wrong.

Is that something like "pimp my balls"?

[oldr_n_wsr]

What if the balls were deflated before being handed to the refs?

From what I remember of TB's press conference he said that he didn't do anything to the balls during the game.

[Guinevere]

In fact, the NFL has said nothing yet. Not one fact has been established. The report (which was an unattributed leak not an official report) of 12 balls being tested may not even be accurate because for those game conditions the Pats provided 24.

The refs test the balls and were kept with the refs (at least based on the latest report) until 5 mins before game time.

Again, it remains speculation until the investigation is complete and actual facts are established.

[MajGenl.Meade]

... and you can be sure that the NFL will be making their forensic results available as soon as possible in advance of their marquee game show of the year, Stuporbowel XIVXLXXXX, because they WANT that TV fiesta fantasy to be overshadowed by some nefarious skullduggery!

I love the Brady Bunch (getting his knickers in a twist):

Q. "Is Tom Brady a cheat?"

A. "I don't believe so"

Maybe he'll learn to trust himself and declare that he isn't a cheat, no matter what he believes. And of course Brady didn't deflate anything. He has people for that.

Gob - we don't have Colemanballs here but Bradyballs looks like a worthy competitor



"... and we have inflation under control now, thanks to a novel implementation of the Patriots Act..."

[wesw]

I see the point of a max inflation level, we don t want the kickers booting it into orbit, but I don t see the point of the minimum. let them have it how they like it. once it gets too flat it becomes harder to throw again anyway.

[MajGenl.Meade]

NFL REVEALS GUILTY PARTY!



De Flatermouse!

[Lord Jim]

"The American people have a right to know if their President is a crook...
Well I'm no crook... I've earned everything I've got...".

[Lord Jim]

Here you go Guin; the official confirmation of what everybody involved has already admitted:

The National Football League broke its silence on the Patriots’ “Deflategate” controversy Friday, confirming that the game balls supplied by the Patriots last Sunday did not comply with the rules and disclosing that the league has interviewed 40 people as part of its investigation.

The league did not, however, place a timetable on the conclusion of the review, casting doubt that it will be resolved before the Super Bowl is played Feb. 1.

Separately, an NFL source with direct knowledge of the situation told the Globe that a referee inspected the balls before the Patriots AFC Championship game with the Indianapolis Colts on Sunday and all the balls were in compliance. That suggests that the balls were deflated sometime in the first half of the game.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/ ... story.html

... and you can be sure that the NFL will be making their forensic results available as soon as possible in advance of their marquee game show of the year,

Yeah, I'm not expecting any official announcements before the game, though if the concern is that the Super Bowl would be over-shadowed, I believe that ship has already sailed...

Even if the league conducts a thorough and vigorous investigation, (which is questionable for a start; "thorough and vigorous investigations" into misconduct by players and teams not being the NFL's strong suit) I think that there's a very good chance that they'll never get to the bottom of this...

If the person in the patriots organization who did this (and all those who know who did this) just stonewall it, I don't see how the league could develop any independent evidence.

And all the incentive is on the side of stonewalling. The league investigators have no leverage to bring to bear to compel anyone to come clean. This isn't a crime; they aren't federal prosecutors who can haul people in front of a grand jury and have them thrown in the clink for contempt if they refuse to testify, or charge them with perjury if they lie under oath.

On the other hand, anyone in the Patriots organization who turns rat and comes forward about this is sure to be out of a job.

So if everybody just sticks to the same story as Belichick and Brady, "I didn't do it, and I have no idea who did", I don't see how even an honest investigation can get to the bottom of this.

[Guinevere]

For a chuckle, lets set out the full statement from the NFL, not just selected quotes:

“Our office has been conducting an investigation as to whether the footballs used in last Sunday’s AFC Championship Game complied with the specifications that are set forth in the playing rules. The investigation began based on information that suggested that the game balls used by the New England Patriots were not properly inflated to levels required by the playing rules, specifically Playing Rule 2, Section 1, which requires that the ball be inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds per square inch. Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sunday’s game.

“The investigation is being led jointly by NFL Executive Vice President Jeff Pash and Ted Wells of the law firm of Paul Weiss. Mr. Wells and his firm bring additional expertise and a valuable independent perspective. The investigation began promptly on Sunday night. Over the past several days, nearly 40 interviews have been conducted, including of Patriots personnel, game officials, and third parties with relevant information and expertise. We have obtained and are continuing to obtain additional information, including video and other electronic information and physical evidence. We have retained Renaissance Associates, an investigatory firm with sophisticated forensic expertise to assist in reviewing electronic and video information.

“The playing rules are intended to protect the fairness and integrity of our games. We take seriously claims that those rules have been violated and will fully investigate this matter without compromise or delay. The investigation is ongoing, will be thorough and objective, and is being pursued expeditiously. In the coming days, we expect to conduct numerous additional interviews, examine video and other forensic evidence, as well as relevant physical evidence. While the evidence thus far supports the conclusion that footballs that were under-inflated were used by the Patriots in the first half, the footballs were properly inflated for the second half and confirmed at the conclusion of the game to have remained properly inflated. The goals of the investigation will be to determine the explanation for why footballs used in the game were not in compliance with the playing rules and specifically whether any noncompliance was the result of deliberate action. We have not made any judgments on these points and will not do so until we have concluded our investigation and considered all of the relevant evidence.

“Upon being advised of the investigation, the Patriots promptly pledged their full cooperation and have made their personnel and other information available to us upon request. Our investigation will seek information from any and all relevant sources and we expect full cooperation from other clubs as well. As we develop more information and are in a position to reach conclusions, we will share them publicly.”

In other words, they've got nothing.

[rubato]

And Lance Armstrong is innocent too.


yrs,
rubato

[Guinevere]

Apples and oranges. Ultimately, there was evidence connecting Lance to his illegal/unsportsmanlike activities. And he ultimately confessed. There is no such thing with the Pats. 40 interviews later no one has any explanation ( but seriously, why have they not yet spoken with Tommy?).

It's ridiculous that this incident is getting more airtime and outrage than Ray Rice beating his wife.

[Lord Jim]

Yeah, maybe The Invisible Man snuck down on to the Patriots sideline and did it...

It's a shame that Barry Bonds didn't play for the Red Sox; I'm sure he'd have gotten a much easier ride from you...

40 interviews later no one has any explanation

Then stonewalling it is...

In other words, they've got nothing.

ETA:

Six people are placed in a locked room with no other way in or out. A little while later, the door is unlocked and there are five people and one dead body lying in the middle of the room with a knife in its chest. All five say that they didn't do it, and they don't know who did. (There's no physical evidence identifying the killer on the knife)

So from this you would conclude that there must not have been a murder committed...

[Guinevere]

That's not true LJ. I've said it before, I'll say it again -- I don't countenance cheating and I will be truly upset if Tom or Bill are behind this. You may recall, I supported Lance based on the evidence, and I stopped supporting him based on the evidence (and it broke a little bit of my heart).

Can you really sit back and say the Pats shouldn't get the benefit of a full anf fair investigation before conclusions are made. It's clear they have not. How in heavens name can people listen to what Tommy said at his presser and immediately say he is lying? If you are being even slightly fair, you cannot jump to that conclusion. And if you're paying the littlest bit of attention, you can see the jealousy spewing everywhere.

[Lord Jim]

I'm not going to say that Brady or Belichik were behind this unless some evidence is developed that they were.

What I've said about Belichik is that I think his claim that "I have never discussed ball compression with any player or staff member" is highly implausible given the kind of detail oriented coach he is, (I didn't know a whole lot about Belichick before this week, except for the earlier scandal...the more I've learned about him the more he reminds me of George Allen...a very effective and dedicated football coach, but perhaps not the nicest fellow in the world...) regardless of whether he was involved with this incident or not.

But while I'm not going to accuse any individual person at this point, it certainly safe to say that given the sequence of known events and the logistics of where these balls were kept, that it is a 99.99999% certainty that the deflating had to have been done by somebody associated with the Patriots...

There's just no other explanation (unless you want to go with my Invisible Man theory...)

If, as I suggested might be the case earlier, everybody stonewalls and nobody fesses up I guess at the end of the day the only option the league will have is to impose a punishment on the franchise but not on any individuals. I suppose that will mean another $25,000 fine, (which is really a joke when you consider what these NFL franchises are worth...they probably spend more than that on Gatorade and gauze...) and a loss of a draft pick.

[rubato]

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/deflate-ga ... d=28434830

On Tuesday, ESPN reported 11 of the Patriots' 12 allotted game footballs were underinflated by two pounds per square inch of air, citing anonymous league sources.

They don't report the exact number, which would be helpful, but if 11 are all deflated by <<the same amount>> that argues for a non-random cause; there is a high probability it was done deliberately.

We don't know any details of the measurements so we cannot say whether temperature had an effect or not but that would more likely effect all 12 equally.

PV=nRT

P= pressure
V= volume
n= number of species (atoms or molecules)
R= Rydberg constant
T= Temperature

(using lower case to indicate P2 and T2, the values at the different temperature conditions.)

PV/nRT = pv/nRt

n and R are constant so we can drop them out
V is very close to constant so we can drop that out leaving:

P/T = p/t
or

P x (t/T) = p

or more usefully (t/T) = (p/P)

Which allows us to calculate the ratio in temperature which would cause a given pressure change. Now for pressure the units don't matter because they cancel out BUT for temperature they do, we have to use degrees kelvin (or another scale which measures the temp from absolute zero) so we get (t/T) = (10.5/12.5) and if we assume that T is roughly room temperature 20C or 283K we get t/283K = 10.5/12.5 = 0.84 or t is equal to 237.7K or - 35.3C VERY cold.

It is more reasonable to believe that the footballs were measured at room temperature the first time and then at -35.3C (-31.5F) the second time or that someone let the air out?


Hmmmmmm


yrs,
rubato